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The_K-Man

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About The_K-Man

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  1. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    Thanks for the inspiration and offer to help! I do know that the different sources(worship leader vocal, backup vocal, drums, Yamaha piano, etc) can have portions of their sound 'carved out' via careful EQing, so they all have their own 'space' in the mix. In isolation, each input might sound odd, but as a package, it can be musical bliss. Presently, each input, including the Pastor mic, does have EQ and mild compression applied to it, but, does the EQ of each input compliment the others, or ultimately clash? That is but one of several issues that needs looking into and if necessary, sorting out. Also, the shape of our sanctuary, mains speaker placement, etc, is also affecting the sound. That is certainly the case in any live venue, Christian or secular, indoors or out. These are things I would like to learn more about and eventually apply to our worship music sound. I think it would need to be done on a day other than Sunday service, and with all worship team members(lead, backup vocalist, and drummer) as well as pastor present. What I would need help with most is not just the technical but also the diplomatic side of pulling this off! Any egos must be checked at the door, and basic gain staging through the X32 Compact accomplished before all the honing and shaping of the sound be done. It certainly cannot all be done thirty minutes, or even one hour, before Sunday Service or Wednesday night worship.
  2. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    I will show up in my birthday suit before I ever wear earplugs to church. (joke!) I've already told Pastor that if even one person must wear earmuffs or plugs in church or even a secular concert to be able to enjoy the presentation, then something is wrong. He "accepts my 'opinion', but as pastor must balance the needs of all congregants". Like I said, the main sanctuary is not the only space I can spend time in in this building during the worship half.
  3. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    The issue is, that 90-95dB, even for only 35min of worship, sounds too loud to me in our size sanctuary. It just doesn't work for me in that size space. So with that in mind, even though OSHA specifies up to 105dBa for one hour, that does not justify 95dB even for 35min. Maybe my ears are just more sensitive than average. Who knows? I've put it in the Pastor's ears, so to speak, I've even made minor tweaks to our church's preset scene in the Behringer digital X32 Compact mixer, but our worship leader just cranks them up anyway from his iPad mounted above the electric piano. And nobody else seems to be bothered by it because they are also good Christians there to worship Jesus on Sundays. They are not audio experts in the very least! Our net growth in membership and overall attendance since I have been there is about two - four have left in four years and six(four members and two casual attendees) have joined us. There are plenty of things for me to fix or clean in our fellowship hall downstairs. 35minutes per Sunday is enough for me to tackle some of them. When I hear the music die down and the Pastor's voice booming from upstairs, I head up in time for offering to be taken and to start the CD recorder to capture the sermon.
  4. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    The style of worship some churches - including my own - is not my primary concern. The overall presentation volume is.
  5. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    My childhood ELCA, just three minutes from my block, still practices the same liturgy, organ, choir, as they have for decades. So not all churches have gone 'rock n roll', in a manner of speaking. I have considered going back there on more than one occasion primarly because of the volume issues at my AG, but several friends and acquaintances have tolded us that it is better for married couples to be under the same roof on Sundays. Just curious, coot: what is Aurender?
  6. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    He does like it loud for a 60-something male. I am quite familiar with and appreciate that article, it comes up first when I Google the subject of church volumes. I've decided, for reasons I prefer not to discuss here, that I'm just going to tolerate the worship part because the sermon part is what matters most to me. I'm a pipe-organ church guy to begin with, but we tried this church we are going to out 4 years ago, and have been going there since. Last year, when I last actually ran the sound, before we got the behringer, I think I kept a good level going in there, although I never metered it. I just raised it up until it was comfortably loud, but not overbearing.
  7. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    Yes, but both our worship leader and the drummer wear IEM monitors. They can deafen themselves as they please. And either he or the Pastor will just push the levels back up to wear they want them during worship, even after I adjust them down before everyone arrives church(as part of the media team, and my wife a deacon, we are both there about 45min before the first song).
  8. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    Our PA system has reserve capacity in a sanctuary of our size. And I know my way around the Behringer x32 Compact enough to be able to turn down the house mix just a little. By lowering the piano, pads, and vocal faders just 2-3dB each, the dB SPL drops down to an average of 90dB instead of 95-97. By listening, I can EQ out of the piano 'space' for the worship leader's vocal, etc. The issue is either the Pastor goes over and pushes them back up, or the worship leader pushes them up on his tablet which emulates the X32 compact. And recall that I mentioned that digital mixer can store dozens of scenes(preset levels for different groups and churches that use our sanctuary). I can make sure our church's scene is selected, but that doesn't mean that the worship leader doesn't switch it from up on stage to the 'hidden' scene several screens down, the one where everything is CRANKED. See what I'm up against? As that paper I attached images to suggests, an average SPL of 95-97 dB for 35-40 min of worship falls inside OSHA's maximum of 105dBa for one hour sustained. But that doesn't mean I -or others - can tolerate it! And our congregation mostly just assume that that's how loud an Assemblies of God worship session should be. They're not soundies like me, the worship leader, and I would assume some of you participating.
  9. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    Regarding the worship music volume, Pastor said to me in pvt: "You can't hold back progress. You must go along to get along." And He's in his sixties!
  10. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    Only in America! Louder! brighter! bigger! betterer!
  11. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    ?
  12. The_K-Man

    Faith-Based Sound Issue..

    *UPDATE* Today after service Pastor('Pr') and I('Me') discussed matters, and he presented me with a document he found on-line from another church, regarding service volume levels. I have attached it for your review. He explained the document to me, and that according to OSHA standards as listed on first page, our worship session, at 95-97dBA, are way below maximum dBA for even one hour. The rest of our discussion as below: Me: But even mid-nineties dB for half an hour are barely tolerable for me. Pr: Then perhaps you should consider earplugs or the earmuffs I presented to you last year, during the worship half of service. Me: Have you ever attended a NASCAR auto race? Pr: No, how loud are those? Me: 120dBa minimum. You'd be crazy not to wear protection in the front rows of a car race. With all due respect Pastor, this is not a car race, or operating loud lawn equipment, this is church. Pr. Well if you really are that sensitive then you should still consider ear protection here. Me: I'm a principled man, Pastor. I'm also a fan of secular music and even if I am a fan, I will not attend even a secular concert if it means wearing protection, even halfway back or in the nosebleed seats. If even one person must wear earplugs during a service or a concert, something is wrong. Pr: (He took a step back from me) Wow! (and he shook his head) I don't know what to tell you. But I cannot just turn the volume down on the worship sound, even by as you said just 4-5dB, just for one person. Me: Pastor, understand that this loudness thing is not just about one church. (I made a small gap between my thumb and pointer for emphasis). It started with the advent of digital audio, and affects everything, from the volume level of CD albums, concerts, church worship, the movies, TV shows, etc. But we are a church. We are better than the world. What would God think? Pr. No no! Do not bring God into this discussion. This is not about Him. As a Pastor this volume thing can be more delicate an issue than politics for me. If it's too soft, I'll lose the younger parishoners I'm trying to attract, if it's too loud, I alienate older people who have come here for years. The loud thing is the only way to reach and retain younger Christians now. I think the Christian thing to would be for you to just wear protection during worship. Me: Or I could just wait in the fellowship hall until I hear the worship end. Pr. Now what good would that do? Do you think you are better than the rest of these parishoners, these congregants? Now I showed you the OSHA scale, and if the maximums you recommends are too loud for you, even all the way hear in back, you know what to do. I'll mention the minor adjustment to our worship leader, and see what he thinks. Below are first two pages of the document.
  13. The_K-Man

    Audiophile VS Musiphile - Your Thoughts?

    Your listening space and the original recording(or mastering) studio are going to differ sonically. That aside, your reproduction system should not add to or detract from what is on that recorded album.
  14. The_K-Man

    Audiophile VS Musiphile - Your Thoughts?

    An audiophile is focused on how, IE. a recording of a Beethoven symphony sounds on their system. A melophile, like yours truly, is focused on how the symphony itself sounds. Capeesh? Separate "audio-" from "melo-" in your mind and you'll get the the gist - of this thread, as well as mine.
  15. The_K-Man

    Audiophile VS Musiphile - Your Thoughts?

    I know - I started the thread so I know what I called it. No, I did not label them opposite. Audiophiles are in love with the sound of their system: "Feel how my subs make the floor tremble!", melophiles love where it starts: "Dig that melody", "That beat is infectious!". See the difference? It's that "groovy melody" or infectious beat that shines through, on anything from a pocket transistor to a US$10-grand dedicated listening room. Something that's had done to it what you see in my profile avatar will sound like sh|t no matter how cheap or expensive a system or device it's heard back over. Get the source right, Summit: The composition of the song, plus production values from mixing through mastering, and you'll have a winner!
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