Aurender S10 with Weiss DAC 202

[weyskipper]

I was so taken by Chris' passion for the Aurender that I immediately booked an audition. I currently have a loan unit running on my system. I was fully expecting to be blown away. Alas, not.

 

I normally run a MacMini with Amarra. I have increasingly become frustrated with enormous amount of bugs that ship with each release of Amarra, so when I read the review of the Aurender I was sure that I will buy one.

 

However, my 2010 MacMini with Amarra with a FireWire connection sounds noticeably more defined and real than then Aurender through the Weiss. In fact I was reflecting that the Aurender sounds washed out! What irony.

 

I am running the Aurender through a very good WireWorld Gold RCA connector. I have set the Weiss to sync RCA, so it should benefit from the great WCLOCK in the Aurender.

 

I am really still up for buying the Aurender, as it does everything else that Chris raved about, but it has to sound at least as good as the Mac. I love the ease of use, but I am not going to sacrifice sound quality for this.

 

I would really appreciate any feedback from anybody who could explain what could possibly be happening here.

 

[leo1311]

Weyskipper,

 

congratulations on your system.

 

I'd like to make a suggestion, which I think is working very well, better than Amarra.

 

Create a new partition on the SSD Mac Mini, 30gb is enough.

 

Restore this image of Snow Leopard to a new partition.

 

Turn on the SL. Then just install the drivers from Weiss. And try a new program, Audirvana Plus. In Audirvana preferences, enable the "hog mode" and "integer mode".

 

It´s ready. Now, you have a great transporter.

 

Best regards.

 

[4est]

If I understand it, you are connecting the Weiss through SPDIF, and not Firewire. My guess would be that therein lies the problem. The natural asynch of Firewire should in theory be a better connection method. Here, my DAC2 sounded good with SPDIF, but great with Firewire. I'd look into a server with Firewire.

 

[Purite Audio]

I know exactly what you mean, I am a tiny bit fed up, with software upgrades, Amarra OSX ITunes, I am waiting for the Weiss MAN, hopefully it will be better sounding than my MBP running Amarra.

Keith.

 

[weyskipper]

Thank you all for the input. I have installed Audirvana 1.1.1 plus. It works well. I have come to the conclusion that certain systems require certain players. My system does not go well with Audirvana. It becomes too bright and harsh.

 

I have auditioned quite a few DACs and players over the last two years. Here is my subjective assessment of all I have heard.

 

I obviously like my current system. I wish Amarra was stable then I would love it 100%.

 

I own a Metric Halo ULN 8 / Amarra 305. It is great, but not as good as the Weiss as a DAC. Yes, I know it does much more. But I am a simple guy and I want one on-off switch.

 

I had a Wadia 781i. Highly commended. But does not do 192k. So I went for the Weiss.

 

Tried a Cambridge DAC as an experiment. Sold it quickly, too boomy.

 

Tried a DCS Debussy. Incredibly analytical. No soul. Left me cold.

 

I have now tried the Aurender player. It is really very good. But it does not go well with my Weiss. I suspect it is the SPDIF combination. The Weiss is superb on FireWire - hard to match.

 

I suspect many of us are perfectionists and want everything to be 100%. If Amarra had no bugs, ie played 192 without glitches and didn't crash at least once a week, it would be close to 100%.

 

If I could give advice to Sonic Studio, tell your customers which version of the OS X and iTunes actually has been tested and proven. Also, give them a script to turn off everything on the Mac that is not needed. It's that simple - and obvious.

 

I don't buy this nonsense that Linux sounds better than Mac or PC. The key question is can you control the processes? On a Mac a I am confident it is possible, but I expect the software providers to wake up and provide the service to do this.

 

Sonic Studio, you are on to a a great thing - but get your act sorted out - quickly. Aurender, might just have a player with FireWire soon. I will buy one in a heartbeat if you don't sort out the nonsense.

 

 

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

you said:

 

"I don't buy this nonsense that Linux sounds better than Mac or PC. The key question is can you control the processes? On a Mac a I am confident it is possible, but I expect the software providers to wake up and provide the service to do this."

 

With Linux, you can control every single process. And based on what I have done, put all 3 OS's on the exact same hardware, Linux came out on top.

 

[earflappin]

Are there Linux compatible Firewire drivers for the Weiss? I don't think there are for the Metric Halo. Has anybody compared the Mytek 192 to the Weiss DAC202?

 

[antipodes_audio]

Has someone figured how to get a Weiss DAC202 to work via firewire with Linux, and can share it please?

 

[earflappin]

Weyskipper, nice system BTW. How would you describe the sonic differences in your system between the ULN-8 and the Weiss DAC202?

 

[AudioDoctor]

If I get some time, I will see if I can get Firewire to my RME Fireface working over Linux and report back.

 

edit: It appear progress has been made getting Firewire audio devices to work on Linux, and to get the RME devices working as well.

 

http://www.ffado.org/

 

Further info:

 

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FireWire

 

[weyskipper]

That's a great question, but I will have great difficulty putting it in words! Both are terrific DACS, I live with both. I currently use the Amarra 305 in my study. The Weiss is obviously more straight-forward to install. Sonically, the Weiss has similar definition to the Amarra, but it has a bit more full-ness / roundedness. This could be down to many

factors. I use a standard DB25 to XLR on the 305 and also I suspect the power supply is not quite as good. The Weiss has the benefit of XLR connects, so I use the Nordost Valhalla there.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

[vortecjr]

I have been working with a CA member trying to get firewire/linux/Weiss to all play nice together. The ALSA driver and or the Weiss firmware have a conflict that keeps it from just working. I have a fix that should make it work, but I have to build another unit and try. When the fix is tested I can send you a link to a how to guide. I have it working on Fedora 16, Vortexbox 2.0 and Voyage-MPD-0.8, but I'll only provide support on Vortexbox 2.0....

 

Jesus R

www.sonore.us

 

[ItemAudio]

The system sounded great, but as feared, an optimal SPDIF transport doesn't necessarily trump Firewire if the DAC is implemented best for Firewire. I'm sure Keith will chip in here, but to me Weiss products always seem built for Firewire. It's a bit like touring Bordeaux and drinking Jacob's Creek.

 

Aurender's Firewire implementation is in an indeterminate state of likelihood.

 

It would be fun to see what we can do to improve the Mac (or other Firewire transport), though . . . and to see how the Weiss compares to something like the MSB + Aurender.

 

Glad we were able to put you in such an interesting dilemma!

 

[antipodes_audio]

I will look forward to that, very keenly. The only time I built a Linux server for music I was very impressed with it, but the limitation of using USB and not firewire meant I stuck with the Mac.

 

My last 3 DACs in my 2nd system have been a Metric Halo LIO-8, an Apogee Rosetta (for FW to AES or SPDIF) & DCS Delius combo, and a Weiss DAC202. I have tried many USB DACs but after a good firewire interface they sound poor - typically relatively harsh up top and wooly down low.

 

On the subject of comparing the sound of those 3... The Apogee/DCS is the odd one out, sounding larger, more immediate and engaging, but on the forward and dry side of neutral. The LIO-8 and Weiss DAC202 were both more neutral. But my preferences were, in order:

1. Weiss DAC202

2. Apogee/Delius

3. LIO-8

 

The Apogee/Delius colorations could be tolerated in comparison with the LIO-8 because of the greater musical involvement. But the Weiss DAC202 lost only a smidge of that involvement and allowed the music to flow more naturally, making the DCS sound a little crude.

 

No doubt the newer DCS equipment is a lot better than that old Delius. I have heard some of the new DCS gear in other systems and it sounds fabulous, but not in my system yet, sadly. I will be getting a Debussy in the New Year so that will be interesting. Maybe I will be won over by USB this time. If so it will make trying Linux a lot easier.

 

[Purite Audio]

I always used a Weiss FireWire interface with my MSB dacs, one of the plus points of the MAN server is that it has an Async FireWire connection for external dacs.

Keith.

 

[AudioDoctor]

I can say that my Wavelength DAC is none of those things.

 

[Glenn_df]

Hi Weyskipper

 

Don't give up on the S10 and 202 until you've run a decent digital cable through the xlr connections and the 202 control panel on xlr. This combo sounds great on my system. In fact, I now have the strong desire to add the carbon upgrade to my Vandersteen 5As. As for the expense, the sound I'm enjoying with this combo was probably, in the past, only produced by systems twice the cost of my rig.

 

I had decided that I would only purchase high-rez digital music going forward, but digitized redbook cd's sound so good now I no longer feel restricted.

 

[Nstarone]

Hi Weyskipper,

 

I've been somewhat of a lurker on this excellent website (thanks, Chris!) but thought that I should share my experience with an S10 and a Weiss DAC202.

 

Micro Review

 

I have to agree with Glenn that its an excellent combo! Its a clear improvement from my MacMini (with SSD and Amarra/PM)/Dac202 combo - the Aurender simply digs deep producing more details resulting in, for a lack of better words, better pre and post note transients. There is also more body. The sounds of a plucked guitar string and or even a piano note are strikingly realistic on this combo. It makes one regularly realise that the piano is a percussion instrument, which is not something my old combo could do. The S10/DAC202 is so detailed that I can hear the wooden keys hitting the strings of a piano.

 

Tips

 

Like you, I tired the Coax connect first as I had an "audiophile" cable for that. Unfortunately, it sounded relatively congested and laid back, even muted, on Coax. Ended up using AES.

 

On the Aurender S10 end, make sure you set the AES/XLR output settings to "Professional". It sounds more dynamic to my ears. I also experimented with different sync sources, ranging from the S10's own clock, a Grimm CC1 and the Weiss' internal clock. The Grimm was quickly taken out of the equation. I'm torn between the S10 (more low level details) and DAC202 (better, more solidly defined images) as sync sources but use the S10's own clock to sync the DAC most of the time.

 

Future steps

 

I will be checking out two things next: installing SOtM SATA filters for the S10's SSD and HDD and getting a better AES cable. Anyone tried the SOtM filers? Am currently using a no name cable that I borrowed from a recording studio friend of mine right now. Any suggestions on a good cable?

 

If only the S10 was cheaper...

[1audio]

How did you get the external clock into the S10? I don't see support for external clocking on the platform. Which clock formats are supported? Word clock or "Superclock"?

[Purite Audio]

Surely the Weiss MAN301 is the natural partner to the 202?

Keith.

[ciamara]

The MAN301 works well with the DAC202. But the version with the on-board DAC section is a step forward from the DAC202. Having integrated volume control in the iPad app (regardless of whether the on board DAC is used or not) is a nice plus. The integrated CD ripping drive is also a great advantage, not to mention the ability to use unlimited storage via a NAS.

[AudioExplorations]

If you plan to use a 202 with the Aurender I would suggest having it sent in for the 202U upgrade which would allow you to take advantage of asynch USB, likely superior to all suggestions provided. Weiss Asia have it working below.

 

 

I heard today (Daniel) that a USB option will also become available for the Medea. Personally as a Weiss user I agree the MAN301 would be the logical choice!

[Purite Audio]

I have the MAN with dac here, it is the best digtial I have heard, be interesting to compare to the server version with the Medea.

Keith.

[AudioExplorations]

Keith, don't tell me you are saying you find the MAN301 dac version to sound better than the Medea Plus!!

 

As for MAN301 vs DAC202, the ES9018 implementation in the 301 uses all 8 channels on the chip whereas in the 202 it uses only 4 at a time (other 4 used for the headphone output) which in theory should result in a few dB of reduced noise floor... this *may* be an audible improvement over the 202. This brings the MAN301 in line and closer to the Medea+ at least on the dac chip level, pretty much everything else, power supplies, analogue section, etc is different.

[lugili]

Antipodes_audio,

I had the Weiss DAC 202 connected via firewire to my ubuntu studio setup about 2 years ago. As I live close to Weiss in Switzerland I had some help form the guys there and Daniel. They were working on their own server (MAN) which runs XMMS not mpd as far as I remember (meaning it is also a linux machine).

I had to install ffado and jack in addtion to mpd and change the sample rates manually in jack if there was need to. It worked up to 24/96 bit perfect (I tested it with the Weiss files) but not higher. I stopped using it then but it was a fun project.

 

As far as I know the internal dac in the new MAN setup is also connected to the computer-board via firewire. At least that is what I understood from Daniel when I saw him a few weeks ago on a show. Weiss must have solved the problem though (including automatic sample rates switching, etc.) for linux with XMMS. Maybe you may want to ask them what to do, they are very nice people.

 

Just my two cents.