Audiophile quality powered subwoofer

[Egon]

I'll just leave a comment in response to what was directed towards me, then get out of the conversation.

 

Where were the harmonics when I couldn't localize my sub? I believie they were in the range I couldn't localize. 80Hz is low for the average ear's directional hearing, two standard deviations below the mean in at least one study. I've established that I’m not golden-eared and the harmonics should have faded off by the frequency I can localize. Since your ears are more golden than mine, it seemed a plausible explanation in absence of a well designed experiment.

 

I don't understand your wave front arrivals; the onset of sound idea is too abstract for my scientific mind to visualize, so I can't comment on it. If I can't picture the wave and what's happening to it, I'm lost.

 

I'm not sure your conclusion is supported even by the data in your test. Too many potential variables went untested. I won't argue that you picked out the location of a sub on more than one occasion in your life. I would argue that this doesn't at all confirm that the average person off the street can localize very low frequencies. "Life in stereo" is a catchy marketing tagline, but just not supported by physics or neurobiology below a certain point.

 

I don't see this research that is so plentiful in your assumptions. All I see is what you condescendingly refer to as "research", the kind from scientific journals edited by experts in their fields, and "old arguments", which seems to be your term for conclusions made from experiments repeated over and over with the same results.

 

I'm stepping away from the conversation because I feel as though I'm trying to discuss evolution with a church group. At the end of the day, no matter how much I believe science, they'll believe there's something else going on. And that's their right to have their own opinion.

 

[Shadorne]

I provided facts and supporting evidence. The technical explanation is free. I'm done. People are free to believe what they want (like wires with magical properties - there are so many obscure beliefs in audio, why try to fight it)

 

[bdiament]

Hi Egon,

 

"...Where were the harmonics when I couldn't localize my sub? I believie they were in the range I couldn't localize...."

 

But doesn't this then deflate the "you localize on the sub's harmonics" argument? There would be other harmonics too, above 80 Hz if the argument holds.

 

 

"..I don't understand your wave front arrivals; the onset of sound idea is too abstract for my scientific mind to visualize, so I can't comment on it..."

 

Sound originate at a source, say the speaker. It must traverse the space between the source and each of your ears. When it first arrives (the wavefront), unless it is directly in front of, above, below or behind you, it arrives at one ear before it arrives at the other. This is what I meant. I hope it is more clear now.

 

I'm sorry you feel my reference was "condescending". That was certainly not my intention and I apologize for sounding that way. I only meant to express familiarity with a number of arguments (yes, some of them "old" - I've been at this for a while) with which my experience disagrees.

 

Thank you for the dialog.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I'm looking for a good sub and good EQ to help blend it in. Rythmik + Behringer = goodness?

 

Anyone?

 

[ferenc]

I think in case of subs for HT, hifi and PA, one of the most interesting products coming from Danley Soundlabs, designed by Tom Danley.

 

One of his most interesting design is the TH-SPUD, which is a dual 8 inch driver tapped horn design, to put your seat on top of it.

 

It works extremely well, this way you can minimize the effects of your room nodes. It goes very deep, it is very sensitive, easy to drive, works for home theatre and works for hifi too. It puts you in the so called "sub bubble" and gives you a completely boxless sub sensation, like those really large, built - in - to - the - house infinite baffle subs can provide, while it is extremely quick and tuneful.

 

The other interesting design from Danley is the DTS10 Kit (not available anymore), but in the last few months hundreds were sold to HT enthusiasts the topic of building and using it was one of the most informative on avsforum.com.

 

Disclaimer: one of the companies I work for is using and selling Danley speakers mainly for PA.

 

[Spacecowboy]

Dear All,

 

thank you for this wonderful treasure of information about subwoofers. I learned a lot from this.

 

One vital issue for me is still unresolved though:

 

What is the best position for two subs in a standard stereo triangle listening situation for audiophile purposes ?

 

A. Close to the main speakers (between the speakers)

B. Close to the main speakers (outside the speakers)

C. Near the main speakers (eg. behind)

D. Directly in front of the main speakers

E. Anywhere in equal distance to the listener compared to the mains (because of timing)

D. Somewhere else ?

 

Thanks a lot for some concrete advice as I got slightly confused by the scientific explanations.

 

Cheers

Christian

 

[bdiament]

Hi Christian,

 

Ultimately, you'll get the best results if you experiment with different positions and decide for yourself.

 

Any three folks here will provide at least four different answers. ;-}

 

I like to keep my subs near the main pair. Mine are located slightly outside and just behind the main panels. You can see a photo at www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

[Spacecowboy]

Dear Barry,

 

thanks...very wise comment after all this "battle of experts"...

 

Testing is exactly what I will do...Do you have any recommendation what kind of signal is the best to test with ?

 

Would it be some music with "attack" like drums or rather deep bass from an organ or just a plain sinus sweep signal ?

 

Thanks again

Christian

 

[bdiament]

Hi Christian,

 

Assuming you do not have the facility to analyze what comes back with tones or (better) impulses, I would suggest a wide range of good sounding recordings that actually contain some low bass (most major label productions don't).

 

I find most or all of Keith Johnson's work for Reference Recordings very useful in this regard. But I would still use a wide variety of recordings in making any assessments, including recordings from the major labels. Pick some of your best sounding recordings, with music you enjoy and use those.

 

With the better recordings, you might hear an improved sense of "focus" with the right placement. On KJ's work, listen for how "in focus" the room is. This may take some practice but I find it can be a very telling sort of cue to listen for.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[Spacecowboy]

Dear Barry,

 

thanks a lot for this practical advice...I have some KJ Discs (Organ works), which I will use.

 

After some research I think I also shall be using some your own excellent productions. Do you also ship to Germany ?

 

Cheers

Christian

 

[firedog]

I'm partial to their subs. Great, accurate bass, very quick responding and lively.

 

They also come with (optional use) DSP room correction built in. In my book it's a plus, but you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

 

[bdiament]

Hi Christian,

 

"...After some research I think I also shall be using some your own excellent productions. Do you also ship to Germany ?..."

 

Thank you for your kindness.

 

We ship all over the world.

Note the "Outside North America" box on the Web page when you visit.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[firedog]

Hi-

 

Eloise, I've used both - with a pair of Sonus Faber monitors.

 

The difference is dramatic (in a good way). In addition to tighter bass, there is an overall improvement in the sound.

 

One of the advantages of the digital processing is that it lets you set the crossover(in hz) between the monitors and the sub(s) in the digital domain, which further improves successful integration. If you wish, you can also shape the slope, etc of the signal.

 

 

 

[Guest hifichip76]

I'm a big fan of SVS subs, especially for the money. They only sell direct. Mine is about 8 years old but was one of the first to offer a parametric room EQ. I think they've gotten more comprehensive with room corection since then, but I like this simple EQ than can be turned off or can be very useful to tame a mode at a particualr frequency.

 

Also think Velodyne and PSB subs can be very musical on a budget.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I picked up a pair of Rythmik F12Gs for filling out the lowest octave on my Merlins. They're incredible. Fast, musical, tight -- and really, really deep. Love 'em.

 

[jankers1]

I've had the DS1200 for several years and love it. Clean, clear, quick and fills out the bottom end of classical and jazz recordings beautifully. I can't comment on other music types as classical and jazz is all I listen to. The DS1200 in 2 cu. ft. outperformed my NHT1259 in a custom 3.5 cu. ft. enclosure (old school folks should remember that sub driver) by a wide margin in depth, fullness, clarity, volume, and speed. I've recently ordered the DS1500 for HT use in a larger room.

 

[thotdoc]

I've found HSU works very well with my box speakers(stack of Met 7, 8 and 9s with a ribbon tweeter) and a 12" Quad with my Maggies. You don't hear that much about the Quad subs. But the are quick enough for Quads and Maggies.