Shopping for My First USB DAC. Please Help!

[vigotone]

Hi everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm finally halfway towards importing my entire music collection into my Mac Mini Music Server. As of now, it's connected via HDMI to my Denon 4308 receiver, and since I'm getting close to having this project completed, it's time to get serious about a DAC.

 

I've been researching this for a while, and I keep going round in circles. Just when I think I've found the right one, I find that it fails to meet one of my criteria. Here's what's important to me:

 

- USB in, RCA out.

 

- Under $1000.

 

- Can natively handle 24/192 files (though I don't have that many right now, I'd like to be somewhat "future-proofed" in that regard).

 

- Handles jitter well (i.e. does a great job of eliminating it)

 

- Is relatively simple to use.

 

- Sounds great!

 

I've looked at several, but for one reason or another, nothing seems to fit the bill. Originally it looked like the V-DAC would be a perfect starter unit, but it doesn't seem to natively handle 24/192 (though it does upsample). Also not sure how it handles jitter. Same issue with the DACMagic.

 

Then I researched the Apogee Duet 2. Looks like it can handle 24/192, but I don't know about jitter and it looks extremely complicated to use.

 

The Ayre QB-9 seems to do everything I need it to, but it's way out of my price range.

 

The Lindemann USB DAC and Peachtree iDAC seem to fit the bill, but don't seem to be as universally praised as some of the above (not that reviews are negative, there just aren't that many reviews!).

 

I would really appreciate any help you guys could offer. If there's a product coming out soon that would fit the bill, I'm happy to wait.

 

Thanks!

 

Lee

 

 

[autoformer]

And at that price point, I am not convinced that you will be improving much on your AVR. However, you're not far off. If you can stretch to $1499, the Wyred4Sound DAC2 is an excellent choice that will do 24/192 over its asynchronous USB port. It also has an integrated preamp, so you can connect it directly to a power amp if you wish. It supports balanced analog out in addition to single ended RCA.

 

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/457975

 

[redxiii]

Centrance Dacmini would be my top choice under $1k. Doesn't go up to 192khz (only 96) and uses a different usb solution than the asynchronous but otherwise it's a fantastic solution for a mac mini. No personal experience but have read so many good things said about it. I doubt anyone needs 192khz. If you're gonna be hearing any difference it will be between any of the 88 96 or 192 and redbook but not significantly between any of the hi-res if they are all mastered properly. And most albums that are out in 176 or 192 will be available in 88 or 96 anyway.

 

[vigotone]

Is the fact that I'm trying to go out of the Mac Mini via USB what's making it so difficult to afford a DAC that can handle 24/192? Should I be using S/PIDF or Firewire?

 

Also, it seems the Peachtree iDAC is not an option, as it only handles 24/96 via USB. The search continues!

 

[vigotone]

Is this too good to be true? An asynchronous 24/192 USB DAC for under $400? Has anyone heard this unit?

 

http://www.audiophileproducts.com/asynchronous-usb-dac

 

[Oystein]

 

I recently purchased a Lindemann USB DAC that handles 24/192 over USB.

 

Lindemann is a small German High-End brand with very good reputation for their disc players so I suppose they know some about D/A conversion. These disc players are thousands EUR/USD and the DAC is only 690 EUR.

http://www.lindemann-audio.de/en/products/small_utilities/usb-dac-24-192/

 

I guess at this price level it will not have the same D/A and output stage but hopefully they used their wisdom to good measure for the development of the DAC.

 

The bottom line is that I am very happy and it is a big improvement over my modified NAD CD player which has a Tentlabs clock and Burson discrete Op-Amps.

 

The only issue with the DAC is when running Win 64 bit you need a special driver (the unit is USB Audio Class 2)which is still under development ... expected May / June

 

This DAC fits your requirements although the sound is everybody's personal taste .. I am happy with it

 

[john dozier]

Anedio will have an adapter for hirez USB. In the meantime, use spdif. This unit has special jitter reduction circuits that actually work. Mine came with its own test results. They use a special input transformer (I think they are the only ones using this) At any rate they offer a thirty day free trial so you should at least try one. Regards

 

[bixby]

I would not rule out the Duet 2. The original Duet is a classic "hard to beat for under $500" and the setup is not that hard. I also like some of the other suggestions like the Lindemann and W4S. I have heard the W4S hooked up via USB and it sounds very good indeed and in some systems is preferable to the Ayre.

 

I would also short list the Hegel HD2 if you can give it a listen. Have not heard it but it seems to be a well thought out design.

 

[vigotone]

I'm such a neophyte when it comes to this stuff, the Duet 2 scares the hell out of me! All those customizable settings, the touchscreen, yikes! Also, I don't understand the outputs. Do the L and R RCA cables connect to the breakout cable?

 

And how does it do with jitter?

 

[vigotone]

This is starting to look better and better...

 

http://www.usbdac.com.au/index.php/dac-news/item/111-i-love-taiwan-and-you-will-too

 

[bixby]

The most complicated thing about the duet is getting a 1/4 inch balanced to rca single ended cable for it. But lots of good makers can provide you with that for not much cash. As for setup, it really should be no harder than using itunes. I did not see the manual online yet but the duet manual is there and you don't have to concern yourself with the input sides or mixing so it should be pretty straightforward.

 

I am also intrigued by the Firestone dac. Could the Tenor chip they are using be the same as the receiver chip in the Hegel and what are they doing to reclock or buffer....hmmm.

 

Seems to offer a lot for $360 but I would be worried about power supply and the analog stage at that price. It sure would be interesting to hear that's for sure.

 

[Paul R]

One thing that is becoming more and more important to me with DACs, is whether I want them to upsample or not. I am tending more towards the not, with a few exceptions.

 

At your price range, I would live without 192k. It is not really very hard to do!

 

Given that, the Wavelength Proton sounds great. The one downside to me is that it has a Lithium battery, and I have no idea how long that battery will last before it needs to be replaced. Sounds glorious though!

 

For some reason, I am growing fonder and fonder of Benchmark DACS. They do a bit of resampling internally, if I understand correctly, but they have a unique sound that I just love.

 

If you like upsampling DACs, then the DacMagic is decidedly difficult to beat, and you can add a $169 Musical Fidelity V-Link to get Async. USB inputs to it.

 

 

[bixby]

@paul I am a bit confused by your comments, unless your Benchmark rec is the exception. I too had a fondness for the Benchmark dacs having owned two DAC1s in 2 different systems. But for someone who does not like upsampling dacs you know the Benchmarks upsample to 110k right?

 

And if he really does have to have 192, then the Benchmarks are out again since they would downsample to 110k.

 

@vigotone I am intrigued with some of the lower cost async designs but some serious red flags come up when you look at some comparisons using just measurements. They may sound okay but some of the conclusions in this review seem to indicate otherwise.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http://www.lydogbilde.no/test/hegel-hd2&act=url

 

 

Go to page 13 for the measurements

 

 

Now it is just one review but if I were taking a gamble on a dac that has what you want without listening and you want it simple, I would grab the Hegel.

 

And no I do not own one, I am really happy with my Halide and Blue Circle 509.

 

Good luck

 

[Paul R]

@Bixby

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I know the Benchmarks resample to 110K (odd number) but I love them anyway.

 

I was sort of suggesting he might be happier without the 192K, since I think the sound from a Proton or Benchmark might be more pleasing to him than the DACs in the budget that do accept 192K signals.

 

I do have to cop a listen to one of those Hegels though... I hear they are great.

 

-Paul

 

 

[john dozier]

The designer of the Anedio addresses this topic in one of his white papers-interesting reading

 

[philwright]

Is an obvious solution, unless I'm missing something. It meets all your criteria and sounds damn fine - I have one sitting between a Mac Mini and an Ayre AX-7e amp, which drives Harbeth Compact 7/2's. It really does sound wonderful and was a doddle to setup - plug n play. If you want to upgrade it there is always the Teddy Pado power suppy for it - not tried it yet but am sorely tempted.

 

Not sure how ubiquitous the rDAC is in the USA; I'm in the UK. I think it's available there though. It costs £300 over here, which to my mind is the audiophile bargain of the decade. In my system it replaced a Meridian 566 DAC, which was certainly no slouch.

 

Hope this helps.

 

ps I mean to say that the USB is asynchronous - the code is licensed from some small outfit - think they are called DCS!

 

[vigotone]

Unfortunately, the rDAC is limited to 24/96 through USB (unless they've upgraded recently!).

 

[vigotone]

Hegel also limits USB to 24/96. I can't believe there are so few options for 24/192! My feeling is I'd rather not spend $1000 for a DAC that won't be able to accurately handle hi-res files I purchase from HDTracks.

 

 

 

[bixby]

Well, then you could spring for a wyred 4 Sound dac2 at $1499, but have no money to buy 192 stuff or you could forgo 192 and have lots of cash to buy lower rez stuff. Besides do you really like most of the stuff at 192 or are you buying it to try and show off your system?

 

Just a thought:) I stopped the "buy the album because it a good recording" some time ago and could not be happier.

 

Then again there is probably a lot of good classical and jazz stuff out there @192, right?

 

PS- You may think this is the last DAC you will buy, but it isn't:)

 

There are other dacs that do what you want but they do not sound as good as other offerings that have been mentioned here.

Cheers

 

[Paul R]

Then the I would suspect the Music Fidelity M1 Dac is probably one of your better choices. Chris reviewed it here.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Musical-Fidelity-M1DAC-M1HPA-and-V-Link-Async-USB-Converter-Review

 

It is well within your budget at $699. I actually forgot about it. Sorry.

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/M1-Series/M1DAC/M1DAC.asp

 

Edit: This will only accept 192k input from digital coaxial - it is limited to 96k over optical. That won't help you much on a Mac - sorry.

 

 

 

[bixby]

Here are some choices:

 

Duet2- satisfies all your requirements- just not sure if it is out yet

 

TC Electronic Impact Twin - not usb but firewire - your mini has that.

 

Probably a number of pro dacs to add to these like Presonus and M- Audio

 

Kingrex UC-192 USB - Spdif Bridge- I have used it and it does 192 nicely into any number of dacs from Audio GD to a Gigaworks fully assembled kit for really low cost solution that does what you want.

 

The hard part with USB is most vendors are a bit behind in integrating 192 capability into the receiver section.

 

 

 

[vigotone]

It does appear the Hegel HD2 is far superior to anything else at that price point (and several at a higher price point), seemingly even surpassing the V-DAC (especially where jitter is concerned). If I do decide to give up on 192, this seems to be the way to go. The W4S DAC2 is just too expensive for me.

 

I will say that it seems more DACs capable of 192 via USB are on the horizon, so it may be worth holding out for another couple months to see what the near future brings.

 

[cipsaz123]

I am in the same boat. I really want the DAC with the best USB support, but many of them are outdated and only a few available, but out of my price range..

 

The more I read about the Lavry DA11, the more I want. I am waiting for a used one to show up. Will see how long I will be able to wait before I pull the trigger on the new one.

 

[dsnyder]

Hello,

 

I was thinking the same thing. My DAC budget was less than $1k since I know that DAC technology changes so fast and I hated to put much more than that into a component that I probably want to replace in three or so years.

 

However, my functional requirements led me to change my mind a bit. My two channel listening habits must share a 19x21 ft room with a 100 inch front projection screen and home theater. Although I thought that my home theater pre/pro was doing an ok job moonlighting as an active analog preamp, after having a dedicated analog preamp in my system for a few weeks, there was no going back!

 

So, I though, that's ok. I'll pick up a $350 Emotiva XDA-1 (really nice sounding DAC for the money) and mate that with their $450 USP-1 active preamp (incredibly good for the money) so that I'd have an "HT Bypass" mode and nice volume control. Unfortunately, the Emotiva XDA-1's USB input is limited to 48 kHz and there's no sampling rate confirmation on the display, so I'd need a nice USB to S/PDIF adapter, ideally one with a display. So, I'd be adding the Audiophilleo1. Now I was up to $1,700 and I had not purchased cables yet. Yikes!

 

What I discovered is that $1k is more than enough to buy a very nice DAC, but if you also require integrated active preamp functionality (possibly with an analog home theater bypass) and integrated high resolution capable USB interface, that's going to be tough to find for less than $1.5k or so.

 

The W4S DAC-2 is really at least three components in one, so the price is quite reasonable given the functionality that it provides...especially if your installation requires everything that it has to offer.

 

Cheers.

 

-- David

 

 

[vigotone]

Thanks for your great post, David. At the risk of sounding naive, how do I know if I need a dedicated analog preamp? I was going to go right from the DAC to the Denon 4308 (which is a terrific home theater receiver, and also what I use for music listening) via RCA out of the DAC to the Ext. In of the Denon. Is there a better option?