So I tried Linux and it didn't go too well

[One and a half]

Currently the main file server where all music is stored is managed by WinServer2016 and Roon server sits on a Windows 10 Pro OS with fidelizer 8.3. I've no complaints with the sound quality, it's working quite well.

 I thought to streamline and reduce the processes on the WinServer, because all it does is share and manage files which ServerOS can do, but no need for that overhead, and I'm a stranger in this OS a little and a lot to learn to master, but the point being...? I just want to use the thing.

 

OK, let's try Ubuntu 18.04, it has a GUI and a pointy thingy, lets poke the toes in the water first , see what happens and then decide to convert. It's not just a matter of swapping an OS, the files are on NTFS disks, some 10TB including videos, so can Linux read and write to NTFS, yes, Paragon software has, OK. If everything falls over, I can quickly revert to a Windows SSD and the files remain intact, otherwise it's several days to copy data over onto Linux friendly formatted disks.

 

Downloaded and burned to a DVD a bootable ISO. Tried on a HP Envy laptop, I use everyday to boot from it,  used ubuntu before when windows totally crapped itself and wouldn't start. Could manage to recover vital files with ubuntu in RAM, so OK. The HP Envy has 4k resolution monitor, and the boot prompts are 2pt, by the time it was possible to focus on something that small, the boot process started. Took a little time, waited. Oh! an image of a desktop, wait, what.. it's upside down. For real. Now it's right side up, not for long maybe 3s, then inverted, then right side up again. WTF.

 

Restarted the machine to Windows and searched upside down ubuntu, plenty of hits. Since 2013 its known, at least the problem is not a mystery, so the hardware is still not fixed, hello it's 2018. There's a spell to type in, provided a terminal is to hand and you can type reverse, and upside down. Pi$$ off. This is not a nice welcome. So this could be the (one of countless) reasons Linux is less than 1% on all desktops? Windows has its moments, at least the screen is readable and messing with computers since 1987, this is the first time, I've seen an upside down image on a conclusion to a boot. 

 

Totally l_a_u_g_h_a_b_l_e. A true committee decision. Bye Ubuntu.

 

Let's try a Hackintosh instead. Provided the compatible hardware is to hand in the form of downloadable drivers, there's a great chance for this OS to work on a PC. Better take off the rose coloured glasses for a mo? Some more reading for the next few days.

[Jud]

True, there's hardware Linux isn't happy with.  I had driver problems with a former video card - just a black screen, nothing to be done (even in terminal mode).  Hardware manufactures are likely more concerned about having drivers that work well with Windows and MacOS, but I doubt these problems are so widespread they're responsible for the non-adoption of Linux.  I think it's just more that everyone is very familiar with Windows, and to a lesser extent MacOS.

 

Having used all three, plus FreeBSD, Windows certainly has its share of frustrations and arcane glitches, but everyone takes that for granted.

[look&listen]

18 minutes ago, One and a half said:

There's a spell to type in

I long think same way, about many OS's, & lame geeks.

[look&listen]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

Windows certainly has its share of frustrations and arcane glitches, but everyone takes that for granted.

Stockholm syndrome  

[Miska]

With Linux I know I can modify pretty much any part of the OS in any way I like. With Windows that is not possible...

 

But my biggest pain has been recently Win 10 and it's lovely ways of screwing itself up. One of my factory shipped Win 10 installations (on a Lenovo ThinkPad laptop) corrupted it's registry so badly that it couldn't load keyboard driver or most other drivers either. I managed to rescue some files by attaching touch-screen monitor and using on-screen keyboard. That was quickly replaced with Linux.

 

One Windows 10 installation on a NUC cannot shutdown. It is first telling it will shutdown, but then just returns to login prompt without actually shutting down. Well, one thing it cannot resist is pulling the power plug, so now shutdown is done what way.

 

Another Windows 10 installation cannot install latest feature update, it just gives magical hexadecimal error code and tells that some files are missing. Otherwise it functions fine. Called Microsoft support and they attempted to install the update for half a day with all kinds of tools over remote connection without succeeding. Windows extended self checks didn't find anything wrong. Then they told they'll escalate it to some higher level support staff, but I never heard back form them.

 

 

Not even getting started with software development. Today I spent entire day fighting with bugs and idiosyncrasies of CoreAudio (macOS). Not to even mention some other extra fun that Xcode 10 brings.

 

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

With Linux I know I can modify pretty much any part of the OS in any way I like. With Windows that is not possible...

 

But my biggest pain has been recently Win 10 and it's lovely ways of screwing itself up. One of my factory shipped Win 10 installations (on a Lenovo ThinkPad laptop) corrupted it's registry so badly that it couldn't load keyboard driver or most other drivers either. I managed to rescue some files by attaching touch-screen monitor and using on-screen keyboard. That was quickly replaced with Linux.

 

One Windows 10 installation on a NUC cannot shutdown. It is first telling it will shutdown, but then just returns to login prompt without actually shutting down. Well, one thing it cannot resist is pulling the power plug, so now shutdown is done what way.

 

Another Windows 10 installation cannot install latest feature update, it just gives magical hexadecimal error code and tells that some files are missing. Otherwise it functions fine. Called Microsoft support and they attempted to install the update for half a day with all kinds of tools over remote connection without succeeding. Windows extended self checks didn't find anything wrong. Then they told they'll escalate it to some higher level support staff, but I never heard back form them.

 

 

Not even getting started with software development. Today I spent entire day fighting with bugs and idiosyncrasies of CoreAudio (macOS). Not to even mention some other extra fun that Xcode 10 brings.

 

Wouldn't a Linux install with scripts piled on a blank disk work? To make it easy for end users? In the current Ubuntu's case, well no. Several years ago, installed Ubuntu Studio on an ancient Asus laptop and it worked fine, until ALSA became unglued working with USB DACs, played for a few seconds then locked up. End of that. Just don't have the knowledge of years of tinkering and modifying code, not that interests me in the slightest, although can appreciate what it can do.

[kelvinwsy]

I totally agree with the view that as a DIY effort to customize a Music PC player system

Just to share my Journey:
Ok Foolbar (The plug-ins drove me crazy) after WMPlayer

Then PS Audio's own Media Player - What a piece of C@@P software

Switched to JRM Media Center for running my PS Audio Bridge /DAC II

Peace and Quiet for a while

The new JRM Media Center tie up works quite well with JRM Remote on the Iphone

 

Then the search for the Holy Grail - PC Audio

First a ASUS Pentium Laptop with a LPSU from Keces DC-116 

running JRMC 18 to a DAC

Not much to fool around with.

Then heard about HQPlayer on Windows 10 with a mini pc as NAA Endpoint

Process Lasso, WIn 10 script optimization ( or at least shutting processes down in Task Manager) Fidelizer

 

Now WinSerVer 2016/Audiophile Optimizer/Fidelizer Pro 8.3 - still a bit of work shutting down processes from say 32 to 24 with HQPlayer/Fidelizer running.

 

Now with SOTM SM200 Ultra Neo as endpoint. Junked the minipc as endpoint(NAA)

 

THen the NUC Craze - So jumped right back into it - bought a 8650 i7 quad core fanless minipc as endpoint to load Jussi's Linux HQPlayer Ramroot NAA. 

Works well and sounds good.

 

what is the purpose of all the above NARRATIVE?

 

When I am not in a FEVER trying to optimize the Sound Quality , or playing with JSSG, and other cable/PSU DIY tricks, I ask myself when am i happiest with my system

 

HONEST Answer

 

Is when i switch on the HQPLayer PC, yes kill a few processes not needed. The SOTM Ultra Neo comes on automatically.

I run HQPlayer Desktop and theNAA shows up. 

I power up my 2  300b tube monoblocs and my iFi iDSD BL as DAC. 

Plug in my balanced Senn HD800 

AND
Listen music.

 

No I am not cured of the disease. Just different manifestation of the Audiophile Upgrade/Optimzation disease  and its varied symptoms.

 

So NOW what am I trying?

Linux I am trying with the NAA image from Jussi, may go to HQPlayer Embedded on main PC

May load Audiolinux - I ask myself (thanks Jussi for the hint,, Why do I need AL when I can run Hqplayer NAA linux on the Ramroot?)

As for AL on the main server.. Well it may be better(I dont know) than Win Server 2016 but reduced control functionality from ever 2016>"??? - Is it worth the trouble?_)

 

Trying out wtfcui player on the 8650 minipc as stand-alone music player Software.

It's simple and only 50Mb runs on ramroot.

 

Running / Modifying lines of code whether it is linux or messing with Processes in Task Manager IS NOT ENJOYING MUSIC. 

 

So just sharing my thoughts on playing with Linux, WInServer /Win 10 Pro etc.

 

Happy Listening

Kelvin

[audiventory]

When I tried Ubuntu Linux, first I get issues with necessity of manual mounting of shared (on network) drives to access.

Manual, that I found, was not clear for me, who have big programming experience even. And I still use manual mounting

 

Mac OS (also Unix) don't caused me such issue.

[Jud]

Lots of Linux distros to try. Most of the very popular ones should be quite compatible with HQP.  Anyone who's curious might have a look at Distrowatch.

[wgscott]

8 hours ago, audiventory said:

When I tried Ubuntu Linux, first I get issues with necessity of manual mounting of shared (on network) drives to access.

Manual, that I found, was not clear for me, who have big programming experience even. And I still use manual mounting

 

Mac OS (also Unix) don't caused me such issue.

 

Use NFS

[Miska]

For example making something like my bootable images, out of Windows or macOS, is just not feasible.

 

But overall, Ubuntu, Fedora, Linux Mint, etc are nowadays fairly easy to install. Intel GPUs work pretty much out of the box and installing Nvidia's drivers is not very hard either (forget the nouveau driver). But selecting hardware for Linux is some amount of effort and some laptops are just hopeless. I'm avoiding AMD GPUs these days. Some manufacturers have computers where they officially support Linux and even ship with Linux pre-installed.

 

I forgot to tell about my AMD-based mini-laptop with Windows 10 and Fedora 29 dual boot. After some update Windows 10 became unusable. Mouse pointer moves for one second, then freezes for one second, moves for one second, freezes for one second... Drives me mad. Booting same machine to Fedora 29 and everything works completely fine... Guess which OS I end up booting?

 

[audiventory]

49 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Use NFS

Thank you, I'll check it.

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

But overall, Ubuntu, Fedora, Linux Mint, etc are nowadays fairly easy to install.

 

No Debian in that list? ?

 

I actually installed Linux for the very first time a few weeks ago and used this guide. There were a couple of minor deviations from this guide.

 

I'm not experienced enough to say if it's a good guide but it got me 70% of the way for a headless Roon Server and HQP Embedded machine.

 

https://www.howtoforge.com/tutorial/debian-minimal-server/

 

[One and a half]

 

24 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

No Debian in that list? ?

 

I actually installed Linux for the very first time a few weeks ago and used this guide. There were a couple of minor deviations from this guide.

 

I'm not experienced enough to say if it's a good guide but it got me 70% of the way for a headless Roon Server and HQP Embedded machine.

 

https://www.howtoforge.com/tutorial/debian-minimal-server/

 

Do you think the 20% could have been ironed out with more care with the install/drivers/updates/balls ups? I would guess the last 10% is left over for installing and configuring the application itself.

[asdf1000]

29 minutes ago, One and a half said:

 

Do you think the 20% could have been ironed out with more care with the install/drivers/updates/balls ups? I would guess the last 10% is left over for installing and configuring the application itself.

 

Hehe nah from my experience, the last 30% was installing Roon Server and HQP Embedded itself. 

 

I needed to get Debian installed first though and that was new for me so that was 70% of the work.

 

I had no problems with drivers etc since it's a headless server playing to networked endpoints.

 

As a headless machine now, it's pretty much 'set it and forget it now'.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

No Debian in that list? ?

 

 

Debian is not as sleek to install, but otherwise there's nothing wrong with it! I didn't list it because it doesn't fall into "easiest to install list". If you need a reliable Linux that can run on wide variety of hardware, including all sorts of ARM platforms, Debian is good. It also allows nicely minimal installs, just like Fedora too.

 

It is among the easiest things to put on a CuBox-i though.

 

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

Debian is not as sleek to install, but otherwise there's nothing wrong with it! I didn't list it because it doesn't fall into "easiest to install list".

 

You could have told me this before I tried Debian! ?

 

I would have tried the easier ones.

 

Just joking of course. Following that tutorial, it wasn’t too bad at all, even for a first timer like me.

 

Of course I’m only talking about a headless machine doing only limited things (Roon and HQPe server).

 

I imagine a Linux desktop install may be more challenging for a first timer, than what I needed.

 

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

I imagine a Linux desktop install may be more challenging for a first timer, than what I needed.

Now imagine installing Windows from scratch if you've never used it before.

[lucretius]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Now imagine installing Windows from scratch if you've never used it before.

 

That's much more rare now.  More likely is Windows came preinstalled.  In any case, doing a clean install (if you can get your USB key or DVD to boot) shouldn't be that much an issue with Windows 10.

[Jud]

Among the more popular Linux distros on Distrowatch:

 

elementary OS, supposed to be geared to beginners - https://elementary.io

 

MX Linux, that gets quite high ratings - https://mxlinux.org

 

Linux Mint, that Miska mentioned - https://linuxmint.com

 

(All the above are based on Debian/Ubuntu.)

 

Most popular of all on Distrowatch is Manjaro - https://manjaro.org

 

Manjaro is supposed to be a more user-friendly version of Arch Linux, which a lot of people like because it's a little more hands-on than the popular more GUI-centric Ubuntu and variants.  So perhaps making Arch a bit more accessible is aimed at being the best of both worlds.

 

I personally have a liking for FreeBSD, just because I came to it a bit earlier than Linux, I like the documentation, it has a nice, flexible, robust file system, and it was easier for me having uniformity rather than a bunch of Linux distros doing things in different ways.  It even has a more user-friendly version, TrueOS.  But unfortunately it doesn't have the critical mass necessary to have DAC or other device drivers written for it, so it's always a bit behind the times in that way.  Though as FreeNAS, it'll work great to run NAS for your music files, if you want something really robust.

[acatala]

Here another fan of FreeBSD (and ZFS). I am building FreeBSD + ZFS based NAS just for fun. Making it with FreeNAS is easy, with bare FreeBSD is the hard way, but highly pedagogical.

 

[Tannoymike]

I recently installed Linux Mint as a dual boot with windows 10 thereby having the option at switch on to use either system. I have never installed or used a Linux OS before and found it a bit of a steep learning curve at first. I use Deadbeef for music playback and apart from no sacd iso playback I like it a lot, I also find the OS very snappy in use. I wish I understood and knew more about it as I am fed up with Windows and their updates, the latest updates to 1809 completely  upset my wireless connection and deleted all my contents in the Downloads Folder and wrecked my copying speeds.

[asdf1000]

On 12/19/2018 at 11:32 AM, mansr said:

Now imagine installing Windows from scratch if you've never used it before.

 

I just did a clean Win 10 install and I have used it before - and what a nightmare.

 

There are prettier screens than Debian to guide you through the install itself but the setup to get things working the way I had with Linux was an absolute nightmare.

 

And don't get me started with USB audio drivers and the pain... argh !

 

After an all night affair things are up and running. If I have even a single issue in the next week, back to Debian I go.

 

 

[asdf1000]

I give up after 1 day. I tried to setup Win 10 has a server + daily PC driver, all to use the ASIO driver for my USB DAC (which apparently allows resending of faulty packets with the ASIO driver).

 

Sounds great on paper, if the Windows experience is fine. But there are too many little pain in the a$$es compared to my previous setup. So I'm going back to Linux headless for server duties and Apple Mac for daily driver. 

 

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

I give up after 1 day. I tried to setup Win 10 has a server + daily PC driver, all to use the ASIO driver for my USB DAC (which apparently allows resending of faulty packets with the ASIO driver).

 

Sounds great on paper, if the Windows experience is fine. But there are too many little pain in the a$$es compared to my previous setup. So I'm going back to Linux headless for server duties and Apple Mac for daily driver. 

 

I wish MacOs could install on anything, since Apple in their wisdom, don't make a tower type case like they used to and specialise in creating spittoons.