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Does Roon's RAAT protocol improve Sound Quality using Tidal?


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I've never thought about using Roon before because most of the time I stream music direct from Tidal, or perhaps Qobuz - so I don't see the point.

 

But it would seem that Roon has a protocol called RAAT which improves streaming stability (and I stream over Wi-Fi) - especially and perhaps only to Roon Ready devices (not just Roon endpoints) - so my question is, should I use Roon for an improvement in Sound Quality, because I don't need the pretty GUI, convenience or DSP of Roon?

 

Even though I use WiFi I currently have no issues or dropouts that I am aware of, but wonder if Roon's RAAT technology improves matters further especially where it counts most - Sound Quality? Or maybe I am missing the point somewhere - help me understand.

 

Here are some things that Roon to Roon Ready devices do (oh with Meridian they have a similar product called Sooloos) .....

 

Audio devices must own the audio clock. Many other protocols get this wrong, including AirPlay. It's not possible for two clocks to agree perfectly. Letting the DAC control the pace of streaming removes the need for a clock-drift-compensation mechanism that is bound to increase cost, decrease sound quality, or both.

 

Stable Streaming over Ethernet and WiFi networks. We take this for granted in 2016, but it's easier-said-than-done, and a huge set of implementation choices are driven by this requirement.

 

 

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Digitally RAAT is able to deliver the same bit perfect audio as the native Tidal client in our products.

 

You may use Roon DSP to upsample it before sending it to a RAAT endpoint.

 

If you're not using a MQA DAC, you can also use Roon to perform the MQA Core decoding for Tidal Masters MQA, before sending the decoded result (first unfold) in 88.2/96kHz to your DAC.  MQA Core decoding can also be achieved by using Tidal desktop app.

 

People use Roon for a variety of reasons - UI, metadata linkage, library management, DSP (upsampling, room correction, etc.), volume levelling, grouped playback, etc.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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3 hours ago, airguitar said:

I've never thought about using Roon before because most of the time I stream music direct from Tidal, or perhaps Qobuz - so I don't see the point.

 

But it would seem that Roon has a protocol called RAAT which improves streaming stability (and I stream over Wi-Fi) - especially and perhaps only to Roon Ready devices (not just Roon endpoints) - so my question is, should I use Roon for an improvement in Sound Quality, because I don't need the pretty GUI, convenience or DSP of Roon?

 

Even though I use WiFi I currently have no issues or dropouts that I am aware of, but wonder if Roon's RAAT technology improves matters further especially where it counts most - Sound Quality? Or maybe I am missing the point somewhere - help me understand.

 

Roon's argument for any apparent improvement in sound quality can only apply when compared to similar indirect online streaming methods such as theirs. The Roon Core Server is what actually streams, decodes and plays the audio file tracks directly from TIDAL's online server, not their Roon EndPoints / Roon Ready devices on the other side of the network using RAAT. Hence the particular need for their RAAT protocol to make sure it does deliver over the network the same bit perfect audio to the Roon EndPoints / Roon Ready devices, from the Roon Core Server.

 

If your current networked audio file playing device is receiving audio file tracks directly over the network form online streaming services such as TIDAL & Qobuz, then you already have the ideal setup. Roon's statements regarding different "clocks" on the network, with the DAC potentially unable to "control the pace of streaming" simply do not apply!

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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wklie

I see Roon has many benefits such as upsampling - but what does upsampling give me beyond red book hi-fi quality sampling - is there a point in filling in the missing bits by padding in more bits aka upsampling? If it does then great - I would just like to understand the benefits of upsampling something that's already hi-fi quality. Does it for instance make the DACs life easier for example?

 

Room correction looks interesting I guess. MQA benefits of the first unfold (like the Tidal client itself can achieve).

 

However for me - my main concern was the possibility of improved sound quality using RAAT above and beyond anything else. However if Tidal streaming directly from the cloud negates the need for RAAT to improve things then it does not matter.

 

 

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Use of RAAT does not imply improved sound quality, unless you were using AirPlay to play Tidal before.

 

As for upsampling, some people like it, some people don't.  Some DACs also need it more than others.  As for why it might possibly sound better on some DACs to some people, check out Miska's threads on HQPlayer.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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Another reason why I would like to avoid using Roon if possible is that I would be concerned about buying an optimised high quality audiophile server which some say can affect the quality of the streaming from Roon.

 

How much of a headache and pain that would be! To have  to worry about another computer and how clean and optimised it should be to deliver music perfectly to the Roon Ready Streamer. I know some don't believe it makes a difference, but others do, and it opens up debate. I mean, just look at this example

 

https://darko.audio/2018/08/roon-labs-nucleus-review/

 

I don't want to be going down that rabbit hole. It's bad enough finding a quality hi-end streamer without having to also worry about a hi-end Roon server too.

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5 hours ago, airguitar said:

To have to worry about another computer

 

Yes, that's why we natively support setups without a computer in the music path, support Roon Ready for those who love Roon, and continuously improve compatibility with other music software for people who love those UI.

 

In case there is anyone who wants my advice for a non-Nucleus Roon Core computer, I'll be happy to offer my suggestion.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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On 12/13/2018 at 1:51 AM, wklie said:

 

In case there is anyone who wants my advice for a non-Nucleus Roon Core computer, I'll be happy to offer my suggestion.

I wouldn't mind hearing your suggestions in case I tread down that path despite my grumbles about having something else to worry about and tune to perfection.

 

My SoTM sMS-200 ULTRA is already about as good as you can get when it comes to streaming, it's also Roon Ready, so would I need an equally good Roon Core so as I don't put a weakness upstream before delivery to sMS 200?

 

Anyway, a suggestion to compliment my sMS200 ULTRA would be useful as reference to me later when, and if, I think it's going to beneficial to have another box in the house.

 

If it doesn't cause any sound degradation, it would be good if the Roon Core could also be a general office computer too - perhaps 2x SSD's, one booting cleanly into Roon, and the other Windows 10. Anyway, whatever you think.

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This is something that is close to ideal at this moment (since Intel makes new NUC periodically), based on the requirement that has official ROCK support (not yet for NUC8) and a 15W TDP for easier fanless and LPS choices:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/the-best-nuc-for-rock/45601/35?u=wklie

 

If you need it for non-Roon purposes as well, simply install Windows and run Roon on top of it instead of ROCK.  No need for dual boot.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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On 12/16/2018 at 2:39 AM, wklie said:

This is something that is close to ideal at this moment (since Intel makes new NUC periodically), based on the requirement that has official ROCK support (not yet for NUC8) and a 15W TDP for easier fanless and LPS choices:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/the-best-nuc-for-rock/45601/35?u=wklie

 

If you need it for non-Roon purposes as well, simply install Windows and run Roon on top of it instead of ROCK.  No need for dual boot.

 

The only reason why I mentioned dual boot was to ensure that Roon performance at its highest quality by using its own operating system ensuring I get the best sound to the sMS-200 Ultra. But if there is no difference - then Windows is better for me.

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