New Holo Audio Spring2 DSD1024 DAC

[Miska]

Spring 1 puts sound out at 48k-base DSD rates, but uses 44.1k clock, so the content is played too slow. Cyan just goes mute.

 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

Chris,

They "48k" they are referring to is 48k-based DSD rates, like DSD64 being 3.072Mhz instead of 2.822Mhz.  It's used in software like HQPlayer when one supposes the DAC's own 48k clocks are more accurate or less noisy (oversimplified).  My Spring is still boxed up from the move or I'd confirm that it doesn't work.  I assume Jussi knows best (but from memory I'd swear it worked).

 

Does same apply to PCM x48k based rates. Not just DSD? @Miska

 

The Spring1’s 44.1k clock is used to output 48k based rates, even for PCM?

[ted_b]

Doubt it, as 48k based PCM sounded great (to my memory)!  Again, the Spring uses two paths; one for PCM one for DSD.  I'm gonna assume here the issue is 48k based DSD.  Just my $.02

[BCRich]

What’s the prognosis as far as Native DSD from a ultraRendu?

Thanks....Mike

[Miska]

10 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Does same apply to PCM x48k based rates. Not just DSD? @Miska

 

The Spring1’s 44.1k clock is used to output 48k based rates, even for PCM?

 

No, I think 48k PCM should work fine.

[TubeDriver]

On 12/12/2018 at 9:04 AM, matthias said:

 

On 12/12/2018 at 9:04 AM, matthias said:

+1

Just an addendum:

The USB interface of the Spring1 has been updated starting from February 2018:

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudioxu208usbmodule/

 

Matt

 

 

 

I have an older Holo Spring with the original U8 USB interface and upgraded to the newer U208 module.   Super simple install (two screws).  I did notice an audible difference however it was slight.  This suggests the original interface was not that bad to begin with.  I heard a slight increase in detail and transparency.  I don't use DSD very often so I am not sure there is much reason to upgrade to the Holo2?  I do like the notion  of better, quieter PS and better USB interface, Femco clock etc but will wait to see what early adapters think.

[matthias]

1 hour ago, TubeDriver said:

I don't use DSD very often so I am not sure there is much reason to upgrade to the Holo2?  I do like the notion  of better, quieter PS and better USB interface, Femco clock etc but will wait to see what early adapters think.

 

I like DSD but I like to compare to PCM too. As it is a NOS DAC I can do all upsampling with software which I like as well. So the Spring2 ticks all my boxes.

I am curious how it sounds and appreciate the input of @Miska and others who have  experiences with Spring1.

 

Matt

 

[matthias]

On 12/15/2018 at 4:54 PM, louisxiawei said:

I'm lucky to get one Spring 2 sample from Jeff last week and also built a compact PC for testing it (9900K + Titan V)

 

 

 

Most of filters can be upsampled to DSD1024 and Spring 2 playbacks smoothly. Don't think anyone owning an modern PC will have difficulty doing -2s filter 1024 upsampling. 

 

 

Haven't had enough time to do serious listening demo though.

 

Did you have time during the holidays to do some listening?

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

Some measurements:

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/some-measurements-of-holo-audio-spring-dac.5869/

 

https://wildism-audio-hk.myshopify.com/blogs/news/holo-audio-xmos-xu208-spring-dsd-r2r-dac

 

AFAIK, both links show measurements of Spring1, not Spring2.

The second link shows measurements with the improved USB interface of Spring1.

 

Matt

[louisxiawei]

On 12/27/2018 at 11:24 PM, matthias said:

 

Did you have time during the holidays to do some listening?

Thanks

 

Matt

Holiday time has yet to come on the eastern side since Chinese don't celebrate Christmas too much (at least no holidays issued by government, though Christmas decorations everywhere). Incoming Chinese new year will be our big break.

 

For the Spring 2, sorry I've sent it back to Jeff and didn't have enough time to do the listening session. I mainly did the test for its stability with HQplayer upsampling. As you may know, there will be another DSD1024 DAC called "MAY" released by Holo audio after Chinese new year. I will directly go for MAY instead of Spring 2. 

[giordy60]

2 hours ago, louisxiawei said:

after Chinese new year.

 

so after February 5, 2019?

[WenYee]

8 hours ago, louisxiawei said:

Holiday time has yet to come on the eastern side since Chinese don't celebrate Christmas too much (at least no holidays issued by government, though Christmas decorations everywhere). Incoming Chinese new year will be our big break.

 

For the Spring 2, sorry I've sent it back to Jeff and didn't have enough time to do the listening session. I mainly did the test for its stability with HQplayer upsampling. As you may know, there will be another DSD1024 DAC called "MAY" released by Holo audio after Chinese new year. I will directly go for MAY instead of Spring 2. 

hot point

[emcdade]

@Miska,

 

What has been your favorite or best sounding DAC that has the 1bit DSD converter so far?

[louisxiawei]

10 hours ago, giordy60 said:

 

so after February 5, 2019?

Hopefully. 

 

Another thing worth looking forward is its linux support. Since Spring 2 is the only DAC that supports USB DSD1024 at the moment. I hope LINUX will add its PID/VID soon for its native DSD1024 support. Currently, Spring 2 can only support linux DSD512 in a DOP fashion. 

 

So for now, to experience USB DSD1024, windows system is the only way to go. But one can definitely use Spring 2 to try DSD512 on a linux platform. I see Sonore is releasing systemOptique, things just get more interesting.?

 

 

[seeteeyou]

Piero @hifi25nl already asked for DSD1024 support under Linux but Jürgen @lintweaker didn't seem to be interested

 

https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/issues/28

 

I grabbed a copy of the driver of Spring 2 and found something relevant, I guess that quirks.c could be modified first

 

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c

case USB_ID(0x20b1, 0x3036): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen1 */
case USB_ID(0x152a, 0x87c0): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen2 */
case USB_ID(0x152a, 0x87c1): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen3 */

Then something else like an additional patch might be created in order to get things going, most likely there will be even more necessary changes but I dunno

 

https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/tree/master/SRPMS/patches/kernel

 

FYI - I found that driver here

 

https://pan.baidu.com/s/1hj5cTymhtF8Qr5zy1_YZCQ

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=527818416876

[hifi25nl]

Audiolinux kernel is already patched with

 

   case USB_ID(0x20b1, 0x3036): /* Holo Springs Level 3 R2R DAC */
        if (fp->altsetting == 3)
            return SNDRV_PCM_FMTBIT_DSD_U32_BE;
        break;

I can add the other USB_ID

[WenYee]

13 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Piero @hifi25nl already asked for DSD1024 support under Linux but Jürgen @lintweaker didn't seem to be interested

 

https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/issues/28

 

I grabbed a copy of the driver of Spring 2 and found something relevant, I guess that quirks.c could be modified first

 

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c

case USB_ID(0x20b1, 0x3036): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen1 */
case USB_ID(0x152a, 0x87c0): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen2 */
case USB_ID(0x152a, 0x87c1): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen3 */

Then something else like an additional patch might be created in order to get things going, most likely there will be even more necessary changes but I dunno

 

https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/tree/master/SRPMS/patches/kernel

 

FYI - I found that driver here

 

https://pan.baidu.com/s/1hj5cTymhtF8Qr5zy1_YZCQ

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=527818416876

This is Jeff's official shop!

[Miska]

On 12/30/2018 at 3:15 PM, seeteeyou said:

Piero @hifi25nl already asked for DSD1024 support under Linux but Jürgen @lintweaker didn't seem to be interested

 

https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/issues/28

 

I grabbed a copy of the driver of Spring 2 and found something relevant, I guess that quirks.c could be modified first

 

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c

case USB_ID(0x20b1, 0x3036): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen1 */
case USB_ID(0x152a, 0x87c0): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen2 */
case USB_ID(0x152a, 0x87c1): /* Holo Audio USB Digital Interface Gen3 */

Then something else like an additional patch might be created in order to get things going, most likely there will be even more necessary changes but I dunno

 

https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/tree/master/SRPMS/patches/kernel

 

FYI - I found that driver here

 

https://pan.baidu.com/s/1hj5cTymhtF8Qr5zy1_YZCQ

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=527818416876

 

This stuff is totally unnecessary with the new auto-detection code I made because 0x152a is Thesycon's VID and 0x20b1 is XMOS' VID and both are covered by the autodetection code, so the PIDs are unnecessary to be listed separately anymore.

 

The auto-detection code is already part of upstream kernels since 4.18.

[Miska]

On 12/30/2018 at 3:20 PM, hifi25nl said:

Audiolinux kernel is already patched with

 

   case USB_ID(0x20b1, 0x3036): /* Holo Springs Level 3 R2R DAC */
        if (fp->altsetting == 3)
            return SNDRV_PCM_FMTBIT_DSD_U32_BE;
        break;

I can add the other USB_ID

 

That too is pointless nowadays. There's no need to list every XMOS, Thesycon or Mytek PID. Only if there's a new VID that uses same style.

 

You should be able to safely remove all separately listed items falling under 0x152a or 0x20b1 VID because those are auto-detected. For my own kernels I've cleaned up that already. For upstream kernel I took more careful approach and delisted only the ones that I had at hand to test to be 100% sure.

 

[Veri]

What would be best performing?

 

Holo Spring 2 with its DSD upsampling, or iFi iDSD PRO with its DSD upsampling.

Both are multibit afaik? Same price range in KTE edition, too.

[matthias]

27 minutes ago, Veri said:

What would be best performing?

 

Holo Spring 2 with its DSD upsampling, or iFi iDSD PRO with its DSD upsampling.

Both are multibit afaik? Same price range in KTE edition, too.

 

AFAIK, Spring2 uses AK4137 for DSD upsampling in OS mode.

iDSD Pro does use some sort of hardware DSD upsampling with PCM intermediate step.

Both are far from ideal.

I would use the Spring2 in NOS mode only with software upsampling.

AFAIK, @austinpop did not like the DSD upsampling in his review of the iDSD Pro.

 

Matt

[Veri]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

 

AFAIK, Spring2 uses AK4137 for DSD upsampling in OS mode.

iDSD Pro does use some sort of hardware DSD upsampling with PCM intermediate step.

Both are far from ideal.

I would use the Spring2 in NOS mode only with software upsampling.

AFAIK, @austinpop did not like the DSD upsampling in his review of the iDSD Pro.

 

Matt

 

I looked into everything and for the price, the Spring seems like the better deal. iDSD Pro seems kind of overpriced to me in comparison.

 

Thanks

[matthias]

15 minutes ago, Veri said:

I looked into everything and for the price, the Spring seems like the better deal. iDSD Pro seems kind of overpriced to me in comparison.

 

Yes, iDSD Pro offers a lot of features I would never use.

Would be nice to get Spring2 as a pure NOS DAC without OS by AK4137.

 

Matt

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

Yes, iDSD Pro offers a lot of features I would never use.

Would be nice to get Spring2 as a pure NOS DAC without OS by AK4137.

 

No need since the Spring has an NOS mode (where I leave mina all the time and feed it high rates from HQ Player). It would save just $2 to omit the filter chip. 

[matthias]

45 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No need since the Spring has an NOS mode (where I leave mina all the time and feed it high rates from HQ Player). It would save just $2 to omit the filter chip. 

 

Did you compare PCM to DSD with your Spring?

What do you prefer?

Thanks

 

Matt