The Computer Audiophile Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, matthias said: You are right. The best is to make comparisons by yourself and report accordingly. Thanks for the advice. Matt Great, let us know when you get your ears on some of this stuff. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
One and a half Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 10:08 AM, Miska said: Even my DACs have more (RME ADI-2)... I don't see an Ethernet connector on the ADI-2. The point is, I could use the Auralic closer to the DAC with Ethernet rather than use 25m of AES3 ATM. I like this spec comment from the Auralic site: Streaming File Formats Lossless: AIFF, ALAC, APE, DIFF, DSF, FLAC, OGG, WAV and WVLossy: AAC, MP3, MQA and WMA @The Computer Audiophile were there any technical problems, I read when the G2 was released a fair bit of instability issues, that was a while ago. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Cortes Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Doak said: Xuanqian Wang’s (aka: “Mr. Auralic”) take on SQ differences between Auralic models: “Galvanic isolation contributes a lot to sound quality because they isolate the digital noise generated by processing circuit. There is no galvanic isolation in either ARIES G1 or VEGA G1 so the sound quality of G1 are not comparable to G2, only software features are the same. My personal rating of the sound quality for different devices are as below: 2 My God, this is even worse!. Since you can get galvanic isolation on the USB with a Silanna chip for less than $100. https://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps I guess, getting that chip embedded must cost less. Link to comment
diecaster Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Cortes said: My God, this is even worse!. Since you can get galvanic isolation on the USB with a Silanna chip for less than $100. https://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps I guess, getting that chip embedded must cost less. Like that $89 isolator is anything like what is built in to G2 or what UpTone Audio offers..... Doak 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Cortes said: My God, this is even worse!. Since you can get galvanic isolation on the USB with a Silanna chip for less than $100. https://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps I guess, getting that chip embedded must cost less. This G2 probably isn’t the product for you. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 6 hours ago, One and a half said: I don't see an Ethernet connector on the ADI-2. The point is, I could use the Auralic closer to the DAC with Ethernet rather than use 25m of AES3 ATM. I like this spec comment from the Auralic site: Streaming File Formats Lossless: AIFF, ALAC, APE, DIFF, DSF, FLAC, OGG, WAV and WVLossy: AAC, MP3, MQA and WMA @The Computer Audiophile were there any technical problems, I read when the G2 was released a fair bit of instability issues, that was a while ago. I didn’t run into any problems. I had an Aries G2 last year at this time and ran into some little quirks. I’d say things have been ironed out now. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
TAV Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 @The Computer Audiophile Really like your reference and use of the Gartner Magic Quadrant in this review. Hopefully this will be a new trend in your future reviews as I find it an extremely valuable "at a glance" perspective and comparison of competing solutions. Would love to see more professional reviewers use it or something similar. Computer The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
Schelol Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I was very happy to find this review on Aries G2. However, without a comparison to the DCS Network Bridge or the internal renderer of DCS Rossini I cannot take any advantage of this review (of course a comparision with other streamer/servers such as Innuos Zenith SE would also be useful). Of course the sound is good (as with most expensive gears) but is it good enough to verify its price tag and are there better options in the market? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, Schelol said: I was very happy to find this review on Aries G2. However, without a comparison to the DCS Network Bridge or the internal renderer of DCS Rossini I cannot take any advantage of this review (of course a comparision with other streamer/servers such as Innuos Zenith SE would also be useful). Of course the sound is good (as with most expensive gears) but is it good enough to verify its price tag and are there better options in the market? Given the number of combinations, do you think such a comparison would actually help you? I usually find such comparisons are a clap trap that people think they want but when it comes down to it there are so many variables it doesn’t really help. For example, does it help you if I compare several D to D converters without the same DAC as you use? Givenmy redults with different DACs in this review I believe not. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
matthias Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Given the number of combinations, do you think such a comparison would actually help you? I usually find such comparisons are a clap trap that people think they want but when it comes down to it there are so many variables it doesn’t really help. For example, does it help you if I compare several D to D converters without the same DAC as you use? Givenmy redults with different DACs in this review I believe not. I do not think so. The dCS Network Bridge does not have USB output. So you can easily compare the Bridge to G2 with AES or SPDIF into the SAME DAC. When the DAC gets a better input signal by the better D-D converter it will sound better. You do net need a certain DAC of.a certain customer for evaluation. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, matthias said: I do not think so. The dCS Network Bridge does not have USB output. So you can easily compare the Bridge to G2 with AES or SPDIF into the SAME DAC. When the DAC gets a better input signal by the better D-D converter it will sound better. You do net need a certain DAC of.a certain customer for evaluation. Matt Why stop with just the Bridge? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
matthias Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Why stop with just the Bridge? You can do the same with a Sonore device vs. G2 using the USB output. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Doak Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Cortes said: My God, this is even worse!. Since you can get galvanic isolation on the USB with a Silanna chip for less than $100. https://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps I guess, getting that chip embedded must cost less. I must say the this the comment I posted was made in the context of a larger discussion. Mr. Wang has indicated that there are other reasons for the G2 to sound better than the G1. Doak's Audio System Link to comment
matthias Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Chris, you do not need to answer, but please let me ask: Why is it so difficult for you to compare devices? Do you think you will hurt your sponsors? In the end it will be a benefit for all to know in which points they can improve their gear. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, matthias said: Chris, you do not need to answer, but please let me ask: Why is it so difficult for you to compare devices? Do you think you will hurt your sponsors? In the end it will be a benefit for all to know in which points they can improve their gear. Matt I’ve done it in the recent past, but it’s never ending. You are a big D to D guy, so why stop with a couple? If i do a couple then people will ask for a third. It’s really never ending. Plus people are usually looking for an answer nobody can give them. Ran 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Schelol Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 In my opinion, D-D converters or digital transports can be easily compared (similar to other components). They differ in terms of transparency, dynamics, stage, PRAT, ..., ie regardless of the speakers, amps, or DACs used. A A/B comparison would be of great help for future buyers, especially with direct competitors such as DCS NB. But I understand why you not compare these products Link to comment
matthias Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I’ve done it in the recent past, but it’s never ending. You are a big D to D guy, so why stop with a couple? If i do a couple then people will ask for a third. It’s really never ending. Plus people are usually looking for an answer nobody can give them. In the price range of the G2 there are two other great contenders which you have in your associated equipment. Nearly all people would be happy if they get a comparison vs. these two. I can not imagine to demand a comparison from a reviewer outside his associated equipment. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
matthias Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just for clarification: Darko recently published a review about Audirvana for Windows. He compared vs. Roon and prefered Audirvana regarding SQ. Now Roon have a reason to make their software better than Audirvana. This is not bad for Roon. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Cortes Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, matthias said: Just for clarification: Darko recently published a review about Audirvana for Windows. He compared vs. Roon and prefered Audirvana regarding SQ. Now Roon have a reason to make their software better than Audirvana. This is not bad for Roon. Matt Funny enough, this is the beginning of the last piece of Darko, published today: Keeping it honest: comparisons are the cornerstone of a good hi-fi review. Why? Because comparisons are also the cornerstone of the consumer decision process. Our decision trees tell us that it isn’t enough for us to enjoy the sound of a piece of audio gear in isolation. We also want to know if we might better enjoy something else. In short: no A/B, no conclusion. No conclusion, no sale. Link to comment
One and a half Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, matthias said: Just for clarification: Darko recently published a review about Audirvana for Windows. He compared vs. Roon and prefered Audirvana regarding SQ. Now Roon have a reason to make their software better than Audirvana. This is not bad for Roon. Matt This would work if enough users wrote to Roon regarding their preferences, then Roon could change. Problem with that is, users like the current SQ of Roon and don’t want to change. From what most reviews of equipment report, either the treble is better on device A and mids are better on B or something is better on one or the other and of course you can’t merge the two. Having a detailed comparison is often mired in detail that’s too confusing. There’s always going to be a combo that was missed. Fair enough if there were only two D/D converters in the world, but there are hundreds, let alone DAC combos. I use A+ as well as Roon, can use either, but lean to Roon due to its networking zone and metadata useability. A+ is on the warmer side which matches the electronics , so for away from home A+ is preferred. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Hi Guys - I was out around town all day with my wife and daughter, responding when i could. I hope my responses don’t seem short or dismissive, but I think one could get that impression now that I look back. The comparison topic comes up once in a while and I do them once in a while. I think in the EMM Labs DA2 DAC review I touched on differences between similar DACs. When I write reviews it’s much more of a creative process for me than the scientific process I use while listening to the product under review. When listening I have all kinds of notes and details and will compare to what I have on hand etc... But when I write I like to craft something different than my somewhat boring review process. It’s also part of what keeps me excited to write. Crafting the story of a product and my impressions of the product versus making sure I check all the boxes for all people reading. Yes I’d love to be able to please everyone but it just isn’t pleasant to write when thinking about what others want to read. I hope that comes across the right way in that I’m human and have to write for myself and hope others find value in the writing. Plus, I believe there is so much more to each product than sound quality. Yes it’s the most important thing to me but one should also consider the company, build quality, aesthetics, warranty, product support. When all of these are taken into consideration a product comparison becomes much more difficult. I know some people say sound quality is all that matters, but I suggest taking a step back to think about all the other items. Gor example, my old Spectral system sounded absolutely awesome and maybe the best I’ve heard. However it failed too many times and had to be sent back for repairs too often. A sond quality only comparison would be a disservice even though many people believe it’s really what they want to read about. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Advieira Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 @The Computer Audiophile, how do you rate G2 sound compared to these solutions the guys all around have made: Macmini+Sotm Trifecta, Caps Server, Innuos Zenith SE MKII, and so on. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Advieira said: @The Computer Audiophile, how do you rate G2 sound compared to these solutions the guys all around have made: Macmini+Sotm Trifecta, Caps Server, Innuos Zenith SE MKII, and so on. I haven’t compared them. The options are truly endless. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted October 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think it is really important to point out that it is a bit of a slippery slope for a reviewer to do direct comparisons, because YMMV is always a factor, and what sounds one way in one system, may sound different in a different system context. A reviewer needs to be very, very careful about comparisons, because some readers may take their word as gospel, instead of doing their own comparisons, at home, in their system. Especially if we are considering comparing products with close levels of performance. The best reviewers may make comparisons, but when they do, they will always emphasize that their results only count in their system. If the performance delta is really large, then comparisons may be fair, but otherwise they may not be. Add to this complex nature of a system, especially when considering Network devices, and the reviewer making comparisons gets into a world of trouble. Another potential problem is sound differences, which may not be "better" just different: for example, in one system product X might sound warmer and more forgiving, and if the system context is a bit on the "cold, hard" side product X might be considered "better", but in a different system context, product X's lack of resolution might be noticed, etc. Ultimately, when considering components with fairly close levels of performance, one really needs to audition in their own system to determine what will work best for them, and expecting to be able to get this information from a review is really going to compromise the outcome. jventer and feelingears 2 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Schelol Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I fear the forthcoming review of Bartok DAC will be of similar style... @barrows: Sorry, I do not agree Link to comment
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