This is a multi part question re: iPhone Xs, Qobuz, and Hi res music.

[AudioDoctor]

Does anyone know if the new iPhone Xs will play Hi-Res music on its own, if not, is there an app that will allow it, and will that allow Qobuz to play Hi-Res files natively?

 

Thank you.

 

edit: iOS 12.01

[AudioDoctor]

Qobuz says it is playing hi res here on the app. 

[AudioDoctor]

@David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist DO you know if this is actually playing 24/96 and not downsampling it to a lower res?

[David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist]

Hi Audio Doctor, once you hit play, Qobuz let’s you see the word length and bit depth. 

Hope this helps. 

[AudioDoctor]

I think this pop up means that without the Lightning to USB Camera connection kit the phone will only output up to 16/44.

[new_media]

I would take that to mean that the built in DAC can't handle hi-res, so it is downsampled before it is converted.

[AudioDoctor]

6 minutes ago, new_media said:

I would take that to mean that the built in DAC can't handle hi-res, so it is downsampled before it is converted.

 

Are you referring to the DAC in the phone?

[Bikutoru]

The warning message states that "if you are using the jack audio output, it will limit", not the the Lightning to USB Camera connection kit. 

I have iPad Pro with the CCK connected to Chord 2Qute and every time a sampling rate change I can see a different light lits up appropriately representing the sampling rate that Qobuz sending. Internal DAC in the iPhone or lighting to 3.5mm dongle will limit it to CD quality.

 

[new_media]

10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Are you referring to the DAC in the phone?

 

I was, because that pop up refers to using the jack audio output, but I guess the iPhone X doesn’t even have one, except the dongle with its built in DAC.

 

Is there a way to output a digital signal without using the camera kit? The CarPlay interface is the only one I know, but is there a car stereo that support CarPlay and hi-res?

 

When I play hi-res through the Onkyo app to my car stereo, it is downsampled to 48kHz, but I assume this is a limitation of the car’s DAC. 

[AudioDoctor]

2 hours ago, new_media said:

 

I was, because that pop up refers to using the jack audio output, but I guess the iPhone X doesn’t even have one, except the dongle with its built in DAC.

 

Is there a way to output a digital signal without using the camera kit? The CarPlay interface is the only one I know, but is there a car stereo that support CarPlay and hi-res?

 

When I play hi-res through the Onkyo app to my car stereo, it is downsampled to 48kHz, but I assume this is a limitation of the car’s DAC. 

 

 

Thats what I thought I just wanted to be sure, and I think you're right.

 

Apple says the Camera Connection Kit is compatible with all iPhones back to the iPhone 5, including the Xs and Xs Max.

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter?fnode=97

 

However, I have no idea if this will allow me to play Hi Res files via CarPlay in my car, which has a USB connection, but I am going to try it.

[left channel]

@AudioDoctor the iPhone X has no internal DAC. As I understand it, wireless connections including CarPlay and W1 will result in lossy transcoding into AAC or OPUS, while wired connections are only as good as the external DAC in that chain.

In addition, playing FLAC files on Apple products requires quite a bit of gymnastics, but of course FLAC streaming from third-party services will work if supported by their apps and your external wired DAC.

I don't have an iPhone, but the situation is similar with the latest models in Google's flagship Android line, which is why I finally left Nexus/Pixel phones behind for an LG V30 ThinQ which sports an old-timey analog audio jack and an advanced internal "Hi-Fi Quad DAC" that supports Hi-Res (and MQA, if you're into that sort of thing).

[new_media]

Here is your solution. (I am also an "audio doctor," and my daughter sent me this.)

 

[Bikutoru]

Files, on iPhone or streaming are digital. If iPhone had no DAC it wouldn't be able to play them to bluetooth headphones, as they probably have no built in DAC. Something has to convert digital to analog, therefor iPhone has to have a built in DAC.

[AudioDoctor]

53 minutes ago, Bikutoru said:

Files, on iPhone or streaming are digital. If iPhone had no DAC it wouldn't be able to play them to bluetooth headphones, as they probably have no built in DAC. Something has to convert digital to analog, therefor iPhone has to have a built in DAC.

 

It also wouldn't be able to play the music over the phone speakers. There has to be a DAC in there.

 

edit: Also, the EarPods with Lightning Connector that come with the phone would not work.

[AudioDoctor]

8 hours ago, new_media said:

Here is your solution. (I am also an "audio doctor," and my daughter sent me this.)

 

 

Ha!

[left channel]

2 hours ago, Bikutoru said:

Files, on iPhone or streaming are digital. If iPhone had no DAC it wouldn't be able to play them to bluetooth headphones, as they probably have no built in DAC. Something has to convert digital to analog, therefor iPhone has to have a built in DAC.

 

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

It also wouldn't be able to play the music over the phone speakers. There has to be a DAC in there.

 

Yes OK sorry it has a low-end DAC for playing sound through its own speakers. Not a serious DAC, and there is no way to connect it to anything else. Earpods have their own DAC. The wired headphone adapter dongle has its own DAC. It's a whole new world.

[new_media]

I was about to post pretty much what left channel posted. Here's some info on the DAC chip built into the EarPods' lightning connector. https://appleinsider.com/articles/16/09/20/teardown-finds-dac-chips-in-apples-lightning-earpods-lightning-to-35mm-adapter-for-iphone-7

 

I don't think that the iPhone can pass an analog audio signal over USB, and even if it could, I seriously doubt that the internal DAC could handle hi-res.

 

I can try connecting my phone to my car using the camera adapter, but first I have to find a USB-A male to USB-A male cable. Don't think I own one. But even if it works, I'm pretty sure it would be a digital signal and limited to the capabilities of the car stereo's DAC.

 

I have been able to play hi-res files from my iPhone using the camera kit and either a DragonFly Red or a Meridian Explorer², though the later is inconvenient because it has to be connected to an external power source.

[AudioDoctor]

Interesting, thanks for the links.

[AudioDoctor]

Out of idle curiosity, I compared the size of the lightning connector on the ear pods, to the lightning connector on the Lightning to USB cable. The EarPods connector is quite a bit larger.

 

EarPods on the left, USB on the right.

 

 

[kirkmc]

On 10/21/2018 at 7:31 PM, left channel said:

@AudioDoctor the iPhone X has no internal DAC. As I understand it, wireless connections including CarPlay and W1 will result in lossy transcoding into AAC or OPUS, while wired connections are only as good as the external DAC in that chain.

In addition, playing FLAC files on Apple products requires quite a bit of gymnastics, but of course FLAC streaming from third-party services will work if supported by their apps and your external wired DAC.

I don't have an iPhone, but the situation is similar with the latest models in Google's flagship Android line, which is why I finally left Nexus/Pixel phones behind for an LG V30 ThinQ which sports an old-timey analog audio jack and an advanced internal "Hi-Fi Quad DAC" that supports Hi-Res (and MQA, if you're into that sort of thing).

 

Almost all CarPlay implementations are wired; only a handful of cars have wireless CarPlay. I would think that it's possible for the iPhone to pass lossless data to CarPlay. 

[left channel]

16 minutes ago, kirkmc said:

 

Almost all CarPlay implementations are wired; only a handful of cars have wireless CarPlay. I would think that it's possible for the iPhone to pass lossless data to CarPlay. 

 

OK thanks. So If wireless then lossy, if wired then results will depend on the data you send (ALAC vs. AAC, for example) and the DAC built into your car's CarPlay system. In both cases I wonder if apps other than Apple's will work well, or work at all. Looking forward to seeing further reports here or in your Lossless Audio through CarPlay thread.

[kirkmc]

No, it might still be lossless when it's wireless, like AirPlay. I wouldn't be surprised if it used AirPlay in those cases. 

[left channel]

5 minutes ago, kirkmc said:

No, it might still be lossless when it's wireless, like AirPlay. I wouldn't be surprised if it used AirPlay in those cases. 

 

My understanding is it's basic Bluetooth just like the competitors, and not even Apple's W1, both of which are not lossless. Anyone want to display some highly skilled Google-fu and get us some clarity on all this?

[new_media]

On 10/21/2018 at 10:27 AM, AudioDoctor said:

 

 

Thats what I thought I just wanted to be sure, and I think you're right.

 

Apple says the Camera Connection Kit is compatible with all iPhones back to the iPhone 5, including the Xs and Xs Max.

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter?fnode=97

 

However, I have no idea if this will allow me to play Hi Res files via CarPlay in my car, which has a USB connection, but I am going to try it.

 

I tried connecting my iPhone to the USB input on my car using the camera kit, and it wasn't recognized as a media device.

 

You might be able to play hi-res files with Onkyo HF Player through the CarPlay interface, but only if your car stereo's internal DAC supports hi-res. I am unable to test this because my car's DAC only supports up to 48kHz, but I can confirm that Onkyo HF Player works with CarPlay. I just don't actually know if the CarPlay interface will pass a hi-res signal unaltered.

[AudioDoctor]

Try it without the camera connection kit and see what happens.