Increased Shipping Rates from China

[rickca]

Trump plans to withdraw from a postal treaty that has allowed Chinese companies to ship small packages to the U.S. at a steeply discounted rate.  Thanks, Donald!

[PeterSt]

27 minutes ago, rickca said:

at a steeply discounted rate.

 

Rick, What would that (discount) rate be ?

Just interested and comparing ...

[rickca]

2 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

What would that (discount) rate be ?

The rates are in the Universal Postal Union treaty, I haven't looked up the details.  Apparently, China and other developing countries have since 1969 been assessed lower rates than wealthier nations.  It is cheaper to ship from Beijing to New York than it is to ship from San Francisco to New York.

[jtwrace]

2 minutes ago, rickca said:

The rates are in the Universal Postal Union treaty, I haven't looked up the details.  Apparently, China and other developing countries have since 1969 been assessed lower rates than wealthier nations.  It is cheaper to ship from Beijing to New York than it is to ship from San Francisco to New York.

That is indeed true.

[PeterSt]

6 minutes ago, rickca said:

I haven't looked up the details.

 

I was afraid of that.

So for our both fun :

 

Shipping from China to Netherlands (but I suppose many countries more) a, say, USD 1 costing product, ships for FREE.

But a USD 20 product also ships for free.

Some times shipping is 1-2 USD.

 

Point is : this is with shipping time of 20-30 days and the 30 days is so-called guaranteed. Btw this is not really about the traveling time, but is merely about the time when they wake up in some warehouse.

Such shipping can just as well take 3 days only, though these days this is rare.

 

Point is (similar to yours) : shipping a parcel locally is 8,60 euros. The China parcel is delivered by the exact same government mail company + driver as the locally shipped parcel. So people sure feel this ain't right.

It therefore already happens that the parcel isn't delivered at your door but at the post office where you can collect it. A day later of course because at the day itself you find a notice in your mailbox which in itself normally costs USD 1 to mail and the notice says you can collect the parcel tomorrow.

 

Oh well.

[NOMBEDES]

Was ist lose at the Bundespost?  (old American GI English-German mash up)  (Deutchlish?)

 

Don't care how long shipping takes.  I just don't want to pay outrageous  postal rates!!
 

 

2 hours ago, rickca said:

Trump plans to withdraw from a postal treaty that has allowed Chinese companies to ship small packages to the U.S. at a steeply discounted rate.  Thanks, Donald!

 

 Wibur Ross (US Sec. Commerce)  (aka "Speedy") said today on CNBC that China-US trade talks are taking a break.  I hope they get going on these talks before it cost me real money!

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Rick, What would that (discount) rate be ?

Just interested and comparing ...

Just look on E-Bay from shipments for China. Many of them (on smaller packages) say free. However if one buys a Yaqin MC-100 tube amp from China, the shipping costs aren't so friendly!

[Superdad]

Did not see this thread before.  Rick mentioned this in another so here is the reply I just posted on the subject:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/us/politics/trump-china-shipping.html

 

As much as I know that Trump's trade-war policies are wrong-headed and bad for all parties, on this particular issue (the Universal Postal Union treaty) I agree that it should be overhauled.  A package of up to 4.4 pounds can be mailed from China for $5 (and 1 pound or less is about $1.50 converted), yet even with my volume discounted commercial rate a 3 ounce package from California to anyplace overseas costs us $13.40 to mail via First Class Mail.  Oh, and 4 pound package to Asia? Over $50!  

 

Recently I have negotiated us onto a program for amazing rates via FedEx (been automatically upgrading overseas orders to FedEx at no extra charge), but what is troubling us now is that the flow of goods through the Chinese customs offices has slowed WAY down.  We receive a fair number of orders from China each month and lately even FedEx delivery is taking 12 days to deliver.  

 

So far the tariff issue has not impacted my business in either direction, but I know it will soon.  

 

[Superdad]

Oh, and just to put some scale to the importance of freight costs to UpTone's business: Last year we spent a total of $58K on freight and postage.  That was about 7% of total gross revenue.  And we did not charge our customers anywhere near our costs.  Take off another 3% in the PayPal and credit card fees we absorb and one can begin to see some of the basic hidden costs that have to be considered when pricing a product here in the USA. 

Not complaining, just highlighting differences versus business costs elsewhere in the world. 

[Ralf11]

To be fair to Drumpfk, coastal China is no longer a developing country, so only things shipped from the interior of China would qualify...

 

I bet India, Sri Lanka, etc. will step up...

[PeterSt]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I bet India

 

I think it is Indiamart which is the compeer of Aliexpress. I run more and more into that (which is a pain, just like all from Aliexpress obfuscates Google search).

[diecaster]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

As much as I know that Trump's trade-war policies are wrong-headed and bad for all parties...

 

 

Whoa, there. You may not understand this, but his policies are intended to make trade more fair. In every case, he put tariffs in place to combat tariffs placed on us or to combat some other unfair trade practice. China is a very aggressive trading partner that is being unfair on several fronts. We should not be afraid of near term pain if we get long term relief.

[oneguy]

It was going to cost me $30 to mail a 6.6 lb. package from TX to HI. I ended up not selling the item because the sale price was only $90 so factoring shipping and PayPal fees it just wasn’t worth it. Shipping from China to Hawaii would have probably only been $7-10. Ain’t that something. 

 

I will say though that USPS is quite expensive compared to EMS overseas. I moved back to the US from Japan last July and whenever I would sell stuff bound for outside of Japan to anywhere other than the US or Canada, EMS was always the cheaper option. I’d only use USPS for the US (because I had domestic rates there) or Canada because for some reason EMS was more expensive there. 

[Superdad]

54 minutes ago, oneguy said:

I’d only use USPS for the US (because I had domestic rates there) or Canada because for some reason EMS was more expensive there. 

 

Well FROM the US EMS is only available via the US Postal Service. It is called Express Mail and it is very expensive.  Not quite as expensive as retail rates for FedEx or UPS international, but still about twice the cost of Priority Mail Intl.

 

What is crazy is that with the contracted FedEx rate discount we receive for international (75-86% off), we can ship a 7Kg box to most of Europe and Asia for less than it costs to ship it from California to the east coast of the US (though 2-day Priority Mail in the states is still cheapest here).

[rickca]

Have a look at tomorrow's financial headline.  Trump says the US will increase tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods from 10% to 25% next week!  Thanks, Donald!  S&P futures are currently down 50 points.

 

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

Yeah, that's what he threatens. I wonder whether this bloke actually gets what he is causing to the world economics.

Or my mood. 

 

Musk can't tweet what he likes. Trump can ?

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, rickca said:

Have a look at tomorrow's financial headline.  Trump says the US will increase tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods from 10% to 25% next week!  Thanks, Donald!  S&P futures are currently down 50 points.

 

And he tries to sell it as something other than a tax on US businesses, repeatedly peddling this falsehood:

 

"For 10 months, China has been paying Tariffs to the USA of 25% on 50 Billion Dollars of High Tech, and 10% on 200 Billion Dollars of other goods," Trump said.

 

Excuse me, China is not paying that, we are.  I have $10K worth of FedEx tariff receipts to prove it.

And if the rate goes to 25%, I will have to raise prices--or start sourcing R-core transformers from India instead (sorry, not going to pay $95 for a USA-made R-core with a 14-week lead time).

[Ralf11]

t-Rump has no policy - he is simply trying to curry favor with his base voters.

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

42 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

t-Rump has no policy - he is simply trying to curry favor with his base voters.

 

 

 

Who don't realize they are the ones hurt the most by it...

[PeterSt]

Trump:

 

....Guess what, that’s not going to happen! China has just informed us that they (Vice-Premier) are now coming to the U.S. to make a deal. We’ll see, but I am very happy with over $100 Billion a year in Tariffs filling U.S. coffers...great for U.S., not good for China!

 

I seriously wonder how he ever could turn into a business man. He just doesn't get it ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Dyson]

On 5/5/2019 at 11:52 PM, Superdad said:

 

And he tries to sell it as something other than a tax on US businesses, repeatedly peddling this falsehood:

 

"For 10 months, China has been paying Tariffs to the USA of 25% on 50 Billion Dollars of High Tech, and 10% on 200 Billion Dollars of other goods," Trump said.

 

Excuse me, China is not paying that, we are.  I have $10K worth of FedEx tariff receipts to prove it.

And if the rate goes to 25%, I will have to raise prices--or start sourcing R-core transformers from India instead (sorry, not going to pay $95 for a USA-made R-core with a 14-week lead time).

The 'TAX' will be short-term, and the 'TAX" from China and other low-paid/ignoring-environment countries have been horrendous against the manufacturing base in the US.  Not many people can be as well educated or want to mentally work REALLY HARD like some of us.  Some people want to be wage-based, being able to take off work on weekends and after 8-9Hrs per day (I seldom could do that over the last 40yrs.)  Those jobs have been diminishing (not just because of foreign job competition, but that is a big part of it.)

We have been in a constant wage vs. some inflation situation for a long time, and the pressure is from effectively subsidized jobs elsewhere. Middle income/lower middle income people (who don't really consume much) have been hit hard by the policy and tolerance of abuse for the last 30-40yrs.   I believe (know) that current policy is to push-back on the horrendous pressure against middle class (I mean wage earners, not those getting by at McD (jobs often to immigrants - depressed wages), retail (diminishing),irritating phone banks (should be diminishing).  Even the phone banks have very significant competition from English (and others) speaking foreign countries.

 

Short term pushback for SOME resistance against the terrible 'sucking sound' for jobs in the  US.  That sounds like a good thing.

Short term pushback against THEFT OF VALUABLE INTELLECUAL PROPERTY - that is DEFINITELY worth it.

Not everyone can handle/wants a office job -- so much for the  'service economy' (whose jobs often have inferior benefits for low/moderate skills.)

Seems to me that the big-time consumers are going to pay more (mostly temporarily) for imported goods, but us poor folk (which I do qualify now, after making seven figures) don't really seem much difference in costs because we consume very little (tell me about it -- I still have and happy with a flip phone.)

 

John

[jtwrace]

On 10/17/2018 at 1:24 PM, Superdad said:

 We receive a fair number of orders from China each month and lately even FedEx delivery is taking 12 days to deliver.  

Maybe you'll change your tune if/when your products are totally copied and sold for 1/4 of the price.  And don't think they can't be, if you only knew what they do copy you'd probably shit yourself.  

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, jtwrace said:

Maybe you'll change your tune if/when your products are totally copied and sold for 1/4 of the price.  And don't think they can't be, if you only knew what they do copy you'd probably shit yourself.  

 

Specialty silicon chips (high performance voltage regulators, FPGAs, high-speed isolators, clocks, DACs, etc.) and better spec'd passives (such as Murata MLCCs, etc.) are not available any cheaper to manufacturers in China than to any US manufacturer.  And I've yet to read of any counterfeit Linear Tech LT3045 or Silicon Labs clock synthesizer.  So it is not as if they can clone and produce for significantly less--though of course they can choose to operate on extremely thin margins.

[jtwrace]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

Specialty silicon chips (high performance voltage regulators, FPGAs, high-speed isolators, clocks, DACs, etc.) and better spec'd passives (such as Murata MLCCs, etc.) are not available any cheaper to manufacturers in China than to any US manufacturer.  And I've yet to read of any counterfeit Linear Tech LT3045 or Silicon Labs clock synthesizer.  So it is not as if they can clone and produce for significantly less--though of course they can choose to operate on extremely thin margins.

Guess you don't fully get how they reverse engineer and can produce at significantly less overhead such as labor costs.  

[PeterSt]

1 minute ago, jtwrace said:

Guess you don't fully get how they reverse engineer

 

Photos of chips. Well, so to speak, but it is that easy.