Article: First Listen And A Visit To dCS For The New Bartok

[AudioDoctor]

The 15K headphone Amp space is getting crowded, this one includes an absolute SOTA DAC as well...  That and a pair of HiFiMan HE-1000v2 headphones next to an iMac might be a good sounding system.

[stevebythebay]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:01 AM, AMP said:

 

Chris covered it in his write-up. In terms of hardware Bartok has a less complex power supply and a less complex chassis.

 

The real difference will be in the software. As our DAC architecture is software-defined we can realize performance gains through a simple firmware update. In the case of Bartok the software is very similar to Rossini as it stands today. Rossini will get an update to apply some of the algorithms from Vivaldi.

 

From a sonic perspective are the Rossini and Vivaldi very different today?  Or are there simply algorithms and/or additional hardware features of a nature that the Vivaldi is, or can exceed the Rossini going forward? 

 

I'd expect the Vivaldi would be replaced in the product line much sooner than the Rossini, based on age when each was released.  Though that may still be years in the future.

[AMP]

2 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

From a sonic perspective are the Rossini and Vivaldi very different today? 

 

Yes.

 

2 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Or are there simply algorithms and/or additional hardware features of a nature that the Vivaldi is, or can exceed the Rossini going forward?

 

Not sure I understand the wording of your question. From a hardware architecture the Vivaldi is quite a bit different than the Rossini and quite a bit more advanced in terms of functional multiprocessing. The software is quite different as well. The difference between the two isn't subtle and although the Rossini will be getting closer in the near future, the Vivaldi will always be "better." (both subjectively and in terms of measured performance)

 

2 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

I'd expect the Vivaldi would be replaced in the product line much sooner than the Rossini, based on age when each was released.  Though that may still be years in the future.

 

The Vivaldi platform still has a lot of life left in it. Someday it will get replaced and as we did with Scarlatti we'll be sure to take care of those people who made an investment in Vivaldi.

[The Computer Audiophile]

And someday the replacement of the Vivaldi replacement will be replaced. 

[matthias]

Interesting that both Alan Sircom in his review of Rossini

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/dcs-rossini-disc-player-and-clock/

and Wojciech Pacula in his review about the Network Bridge 

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-759&lang=en

found that CD playback is superior to streaming.

 

My question to @AMP:

What has to be done that streaming gets ahead of CD playback?

Thanks

 

Matt

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

Interesting that both Alan Sircom in his review of Rossini

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/dcs-rossini-disc-player-and-clock/

and Wojciech Pacula in his review about the Network Bridge 

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-759&lang=en

found that CD playback is superior to streaming.

 

My question to @AMP:

What has to be done that streaming gets ahead of CD playback?

Thanks

 

Matt

This is a topic for another thread. 

[ejlif]

LOL.  How can you possibly say what you are hearing is the Bartok in listening?  You are hearing a new system.  How does one pick out the contribution of the DAC vs the speakers or the amps that you don't already know? If you were going to fly all the way there seems like the most obvious thing to do would be to put the Rossini up against the Bartok head to head.  That is what we all want to know.  Can we get very close to the sound of the Rossini with the Bartok? : )

[matthias]

2 hours ago, ejlif said:

Can we get very close to the sound of the Rossini with the Bartok? : )

 

As Rossini and Bartok have nearly the same hardware they could sound very close.

But Rossini will get the better software, so Rossini stays ahead in the hierarchy.

 

Matt

[Hipper]

Thanks for the review but I'm a bit disappointed that the review, with all the talk about the headphone amp part, didn't appear to listen to any headphones.

 

Like someone above I would have been interested in how the top end headphones sounded.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Hipper said:

Thanks for the review but I'm a bit disappointed that the review, with all the talk about the headphone amp part, didn't appear to listen to any headphones.

 

Like someone above I would have been interested in how the top end headphones sounded.

Hi Hipper - Given this was a first listen, I didn’t have any top end headphones with me. Much more to come for the official review. 

[Hipper]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Hipper - Given this was a first listen, I didn’t have any top end headphones with me. Much more to come for the official review. 

 

Thanks. I look forward to it.

[crion]

Hello AMP, is that impedance spec for the headphones written in stone? Not accepting lower impedance almost make me feel the headphone output is an afterthought but actually the initial reason for me looking at the product.
 

I enjoy low impedance headphones, they may need some amps but hey, electricity is cheap. ?

 

 

[AMP]

2 hours ago, crion said:

Hello AMP, is that impedance spec for the headphones written in stone? Not accepting lower impedance almost make me feel the headphone output is an afterthought but actually the initial reason for me looking at the product.

 

This question came up on another site and our director of product development provided a very thorough response which I'll include below.

 

As for the headphone section being an afterthought I can assure you that couldn't be farther from the truth. This product was designed as a headphone DAC from day one. We're occasionally overly conservative in our specs, but the intention was always to have Bartok capable of supporting whatever headphones the customer preferred. Take your favorite pair to a dealer and have a listen for yourself.

 

Here is the technical explanation from our director of product development:

 

The Bartok headphone amplifier is heavily optimised for operation into loads of 30 Ohms or greater, but this doesn’t mean that it won’t operate linearly into lower impedances.  As the amplifier operates in Class A for all practical purposes, the maximum power dissipation in the output stage is when the amplifier is idle.  Driving the amplifier diverts this power dissipation away from the output stage and into the load.  As a result, the amplifier is quite tolerant of lower than rated loads.  Into very low impedances (let’s say less than 8 Ohms), and at high output levels, there will be an increase in output stage dissipation, distortion will increase a little, and operation may move away from Class A at very high drive- which we define as levels that would not be encountered in any practical situation, i.e. levels that would be hazardous to both ears and headphones!

[Lee Scoggins]

Nice writeup Chris.  I heard the Bartok at hifibuys in Atlanta and was very impressed.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

38 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

Nice writeup Chris.  I heard the Bartok at hifibuys in Atlanta and was very impressed.  

I love that store and think Alan is great. 

[Lee Scoggins]

40 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love that store and think Alan is great. 

 

We are blessed with a number of great hifi shops in Atlanta and  a surprising 14 record stores.

[MetalNuts]

From the specs, I cannot see any major difference between Bartok and Rossini and it never says anything more than the RingDac technology.  I cannot find there mentioning any different RingDac technology being applied to different model.  So I guess  that the hardware between the models are not substantially different but the software may and I cannot dispute that the different models sound differently with Vivaldi having the best SQ.

 

[xtraktz]

On 10/3/2018 at 5:18 PM, AMP said:

 

No, it's not.

 

There is absolutely no reason to use a Bridge with a Rossini or Bartok. There will be no performance gains and some control functionality will be lost.

 
Fully agree. I tried to connect my old NB Bridge to Bartok using Siltech cables vs internal Bartok bridge. Bartok as all in one unit sounds better! Extra crutch not needed) Also I sold my NUC with Roon, because Mosaic sounds better. NUC was a second crutch)

 

One thing I'm really looking forward to is EtherRegen by UpTone for optically isolate my audio network part from main network