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MQA The Truth lies Somewhere in the Middle


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3 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

Yes..although I am not sure about Srajan Ebaen. I found him to be incredibly rude and smug, but his sonic description have been rather accurate. Has he written about MQA?

 

He refuses to write about MQA. And based on his life that I know about he hung around with some very unsavory people in Oregon.

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OT, but for the record, Srajan Ebaen's Bio from 6moons:

 

:http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/srajan/1.html

 

"Philosophical beginnings. At eighteen and much to the chagrin of friends and relatives, this future scribe traveled to India to spend time in the ashram of the controversial mystic Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh who later became known simply as Osho. Osho gave him the name Dhyan Srajan which translates as 'creativity from meditation'. Srajan eventually abandoned his classical music studies to concentrate on these new pursuits. He emigrated to the US to become part of the Rajneeshpuram community in the high desert of Oregon. When that large-scale experiment ended and much of the community regrouped in the former Indian headquarters of Poona, he decided to stay in the US."

 

"Credits. For world view and spiritual perspective, grateful acknowledgements go to his root teacher Osho as well as the American-born Avatar Adi Da Samraj, British-born Maitreya Ishwara and modern-day teacher Nirmala."

 

This is a telling list. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/apr/07/cult-oregon-1980s-terror-netflix-documentary-wild-country

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4 hours ago, Archimago said:

Wow, had to do a double take this AM. Looks like subjective folks including Hans Beekhuyzen is now claiming that "often the linear phase version sounds the best - at least to my ears" (7:47):

 

 

Hmmm, minimum phase Meridian / MQA / Ayre / Pono filters on the way out? Is he about to jump on the Chord linear phase 1M tap filter bandwagon?

 

As the world turns ?.

 


OMG did he had a bad day? He repeats the same sentence "and since ...." at around 05:00 in the video ;)

And what about 88.4 (it should be 88.2) and 176.8 (it's 176.4) ... sorry Hans but do your research better ...

image.thumb.png.350e57e4bf3f80258e42ac2c68db9157.png

Common  PCM sample rates are all multiples of either 44.1 or 48 Khz.


Now back on topic:

The best filter to my ears is your intermediate phase filter:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/musings-more-fun-with-digital-filters.html

I actually put it in our own product and gave it away as a free software update ;)

http://432evo.be/sqi


I also put in the MQA alike filter with one cycle of post-ringing which you can find in my signature here at CA, but it can't beat the intermediate phase filter. The MQA alike filter just kills the decay of instruments. No thanks. Nice with EDM as it makes the kick very tight, but it ruins voices. The decay and post-echo in voices is reduced by MQA alike filters. It does not sound organic.

We tested this on equipment that won best of show several times, including the Amphion's Krypton 3, the Conquistar speaker with their big RAAL ribbon open dipole and the Aries Cerat system that won best of show last year in Munich. On all these systems, you can very easily hear the differences between these filters. But even on a more modest budget you can hear it.

The intermediate phase filter sounds so good I actually tweaked it ;) Very organic, open, transparant without fatigue - all an audiophile can dream about. We use the intermediate phase filter on all our shows and our X-FI set just made it to the cover picture of the show report ;)

http://www.the-ear.net/show-reports/xfi-2018-pt1

Still waiting for part 2 but Trevor was impressed.

Hans BH likes raspberry pi a lot, so maybe you can convince him to make a video about your goldilocks filter ;)
 

Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist

Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing.

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21 minutes ago, FredericV said:


OMG did he had a bad day? He repeats the same sentence "and since ...." at around 05:00 in the video ;)

And what about 88.4 (it should be 88.2) and 176.8 (it's 176.4) ... sorry Hans but do your research better ...

image.thumb.png.350e57e4bf3f80258e42ac2c68db9157.png

Common  PCM sample rates are all multiples of either 44.1 or 48 Khz.


Now back on topic:

The best filter to my ears is your intermediate phase filter:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/musings-more-fun-with-digital-filters.html

I actually put it in our own product and gave it away as a free software update ;)

http://432evo.be/sqi


I also put in the MQA alike filter with one cycle of post-ringing which you can find in my signature here at CA, but it can't beat the intermediate phase filter. The MQA alike filter just kills the decay of instruments. No thanks. Nice with EDM as it makes the kick very tight, but it ruins voices. The decay and post-echo in voices is reduced by MQA alike filters. It does not sound organic.

We tested this on equipment that won best of show several times, including the Amphion's Krypton 3, the Conquistar speaker with their big RAAL ribbon open dipole and the Aries Cerat system that won best of show last year in Munich. On all these systems, you can very easily hear the differences between these filters. But even on a more modest budget you can hear it.

The intermediate phase filter sounds so good I actually tweaked it ;) Very organic, open, transparant without fatigue - all an audiophile can dream about. We use the intermediate phase filter on all our shows and our X-FI set just made it to the cover picture of the show report ;)

http://www.the-ear.net/show-reports/xfi-2018-pt1

Still waiting for part 2 but Trevor was impressed.

Hans BH likes raspberry pi a lot, so maybe you can convince him to make a video about your goldilocks filter ;)
 

How very strange. I know people who don't even have digital front ends, only vinyl, and are well versed in common sample rates.

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3 hours ago, mansr said:

So-called ringing occurs only around step-like events in the input. 

 

OK, trying to figure out how this jibes with my prior idea that it was a step-like response of the filter to input at a particular frequency that resulted in ringing.  Probably best to move this to a Q&A thread, I think, and out of this one.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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31 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

OT, but for the record, Srajan Ebaen's Bio from 6moons:

 

:http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/srajan/1.html

 

"Philosophical beginnings. At eighteen and much to the chagrin of friends and relatives, this future scribe traveled to India to spend time in the ashram of the controversial mystic Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh who later became known simply as Osho. Osho gave him the name Dhyan Srajan which translates as 'creativity from meditation'. Srajan eventually abandoned his classical music studies to concentrate on these new pursuits. He emigrated to the US to become part of the Rajneeshpuram community in the high desert of Oregon. When that large-scale experiment ended and much of the community regrouped in the former Indian headquarters of Poona, he decided to stay in the US."

 

"Credits. For world view and spiritual perspective, grateful acknowledgements go to his root teacher Osho as well as the American-born Avatar Adi Da Samraj, British-born Maitreya Ishwara and modern-day teacher Nirmala."

 

This is a telling list. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/apr/07/cult-oregon-1980s-terror-netflix-documentary-wild-country

 

An episode of American history that should be erased.

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29 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

How very strange. I know people who don't even have digital front ends, only vinyl, and are well versed in common sample rates.

 

And first he says he likes linear phase the most on dacs with selectable filters, and then he contradicts himself he likes MQA a lot, which does not implement linear phase but a modified minimum phase filter which messes up the frequency domain:

image.thumb.png.d9d6cd5d4538899333c15940d5c9e600.png

 

and he continues to claim it's beneficial to buy an MQA dac ....
image.thumb.png.fc3eadba17ae65b122271f60cfaaf252.png
image.thumb.png.8e403cce959f21b5b630c2247d54d476.png

Is this guy a complete joke?

Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist

Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing.

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57 minutes ago, FredericV said:

 

And first he says he likes linear phase the most on dacs with selectable filters, and then he contradicts himself he likes MQA a lot, which does not implement linear phase but a modified minimum phase filter which messes up the frequency domain:

image.thumb.png.d9d6cd5d4538899333c15940d5c9e600.png

 

and he continues to claim it's beneficial to buy an MQA dac ....
image.thumb.png.fc3eadba17ae65b122271f60cfaaf252.png
image.thumb.png.8e403cce959f21b5b630c2247d54d476.png

Is this guy a complete joke?

 

Hans and colleagues

Flock_of_sheep.jpg

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9 hours ago, FredericV said:


OMG did he had a bad day? He repeats the same sentence "and since ...." at around 05:00 in the video ;)

And what about 88.4 (it should be 88.2) and 176.8 (it's 176.4) ... sorry Hans but do your research better ...

image.thumb.png.350e57e4bf3f80258e42ac2c68db9157.png

Common  PCM sample rates are all multiples of either 44.1 or 48 Khz.


Now back on topic:

The best filter to my ears is your intermediate phase filter:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/musings-more-fun-with-digital-filters.html

I actually put it in our own product and gave it away as a free software update ;)

http://432evo.be/sqi


I also put in the MQA alike filter with one cycle of post-ringing which you can find in my signature here at CA, but it can't beat the intermediate phase filter. The MQA alike filter just kills the decay of instruments. No thanks. Nice with EDM as it makes the kick very tight, but it ruins voices. The decay and post-echo in voices is reduced by MQA alike filters. It does not sound organic.
...
 

 

Cool implementation man ?... Will have to give it a listen at some point.

 

8 hours ago, FredericV said:

 

And first he says he likes linear phase the most on dacs with selectable filters, and then he contradicts himself he likes MQA a lot, which does not implement linear phase but a modified minimum phase filter which messes up the frequency domain:

...

 

LOL. I didn't even realize HB dragged out MQA later because I couldn't bear to finish watching it until I read your message.

 

"But even non-MQA files clearly benefit from these MQA filters according to me and some colleagues." (~11:00)

 

Yeesh...

 

Can't wait for his part 2 video on jitter...

 

Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile.

Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism.

:nomqa: R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Archimago said:

Can't wait for his part 2 video on jitter...


Do we need a full video for that? Maybe one pictures is enough.
 

Don't know if Hans knows the gimp, but gimp's ripple effect with a large enough period size is a nice simulation:

 

image.thumb.png.688cda57e3d51ab8616a231f8fc3f234.png

 

and how better explain it in layman terms ;)

If the jitter is severe enough, the signal can no longer be decoded:

image.thumb.png.59c14347088e2bfd18d3b1683728ed04.png

 

but that does not happen often in digital audio ;)

Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist

Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing.

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Something to ask about.  Ran across an iFi Nano I-one DAC  review which has firmware that when MQA is enabled, SPDIF output is disabled.  This is whether the input is MQA or anything else. 

 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ifi-nano-ione-dac.4754/post-106158

 

It also then prevents filter choices that were available with this device unless you roll back to previous firmware and forego MQA. 

 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ifi-nano-ione-dac.4754/post-106160

 

So this device which could be used to feed USB to an SPDIF output on this device loses functionality if it is MQA enabled.  How nice of the MQA to do this for owners of that DAC.  Prevent hardware capabilities from functioning that the owner paid for.  

 

But no DRM here.  Maybe more like HRM (hardware rights management).  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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17 hours ago, Archimago said:

Wow, had to do a double take this AM. Looks like subjective folks including Hans Beekhuyzen is now claiming that "often the linear phase version sounds the best - at least to my ears" (7:47

 

Hmmm, minimum phase Meridian / MQA / Ayre / Pono filters on the way out? Is he about to jump on the Chord linear phase 1M tap filter bandwagon??

Maybe but it is possible to have a foot on both bandwagons without apparent discomfort even though they are heading in opposite directions, isn't it @John_Atkinson.

You are not a sound quality measurement device

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40 minutes ago, esldude said:

Something to ask about.  Ran across an iFi Nano I-one DAC  review which has firmware that when MQA is enabled, SPDIF output is disabled.  This is whether the input is MQA or anything else. 

 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ifi-nano-ione-dac.4754/post-106158

 

It also then prevents filter choices that were available with this device unless you roll back to previous firmware and forego MQA. 

 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-ifi-nano-ione-dac.4754/post-106160

 

So this device which could be used to feed USB to an SPDIF output on this device loses functionality if it is MQA enabled.  How nice of the MQA to do this for owners of that DAC.  Prevent hardware capabilities from functioning that the owner paid for.  

 

But no DRM here.  Maybe more like HRM (hardware rights management).  

I own one of those but run it on the previous (5.2) firmware which is non MQA.  I asked iFi about this. It isn't the fault of MQA or HRM, per se. The device doesn't have the capacity to do both MQA and also act as a USB>SPDIF converter. To allow it to do MQA, they need to devote one of the cores to it, and they sacrificed the core that previously did SPDIF. They therefore give users a choice: one firmware version without MQA and with the SPDIF out, and another with MQA, but the SPDIF out is eliminated. 

 

Here's their actual response:

Just to be clear, yes, there are insufficient resources on the 8-core devices to run MQA renderer AND SPDIF out. This is what is fitted, so there is no debate why it is not there.

 

If there was an SPDIF out, it would just be the same signal as the MQA core decoder in the software decodes. The same is true for any other SPDIF out under MQA.

 

In other words, it would be the same as loading firmware 5.2 (no MQA) and setting the software (Tidal, Roon, Audirvana) to output the first unfold digital signal (88.2/96kHz).

 

The device fed via SPDIF would then require an SPDIF based MQA renderer component to perform the rest of the MQA unfolding in the DAC fed via SPDIF.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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38 minutes ago, firedog said:

I own one of those but run it on the previous (5.2) firmware which is non MQA.  I asked iFi about this. It isn't the fault of MQA or HRM, per se. The device doesn't have the capacity to do both MQA and also act as a USB>SPDIF converter. To allow it to do MQA, they need to devote one of the cores to it, and they sacrificed the core that previously did SPDIF. They therefore give users a choice: one firmware version without MQA and with the SPDIF out, and another with MQA, but the SPDIF out is eliminated. 

 

Here's their actual response:

Just to be clear, yes, there are insufficient resources on the 8-core devices to run MQA renderer AND SPDIF out. This is what is fitted, so there is no debate why it is not there.

Their code must be horribly inefficient if this is true.

 

38 minutes ago, firedog said:

If there was an SPDIF out, it would just be the same signal as the MQA core decoder in the software decodes. The same is true for any other SPDIF out under MQA.

 

In other words, it would be the same as loading firmware 5.2 (no MQA) and setting the software (Tidal, Roon, Audirvana) to output the first unfold digital signal (88.2/96kHz).

 

The device fed via SPDIF would then require an SPDIF based MQA renderer component to perform the rest of the MQA unfolding in the DAC fed via SPDIF.

This is correct. I guess it hasn't occurred to them that someone might still want that functionality.

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I'd like to see MQA explain what they mean by this "...just as the artist intended..." line.

 

This tells me, the consumer, that each artist is involved with the MQA-ing of their catalog for which, in the case of deceased artists, I conclude that this is not possible and that MQA is not delivering what they say they are. (I know I know, seems impossible, right?)

 

Do they really mean "The artist want their material to sound good, and MQA sounds good, therefore MQA is just as the artist intended" ?!?  

 

 

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