Popular Post mansr Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 All components (and cables) sound exactly alike. There are no differences between a $5 clock radio and the finest system money can buy. If you have evidence to the contrary, you are not permitted to say so in this thread. We like our beliefs and wish to keep them undisturbed by reality. crenca, Ralf11, Nordkapp and 7 others 5 2 2 1 Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, mansr said: We're like our beliefs ? Link to comment
mansr Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, christopher3393 said: ? Typo, sorry. Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Sounds like the first element on the periodic table. Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, mansr said: All components (and cables) sound exactly alike. There are no differences between a $5 clock radio and the finest system money can buy. If you have evidence to the contrary, you are not permitted to say so in this thread. We're like our beliefs and wish to keep them undisturbed by reality. Weak satire and not really relevant. No one said you aren't "allowed" to post what you want. The question you should be asking yourself: why do you feel compelled to continue to devote reams of posts on the same topic, year after year, thread after thread, when the available evidence suggests you've convinced no one from the other "camp"? Sort of ironic for an "evidence based" objectivist. To most of us the arguments are old and tiresome - no matter what we think about the actual topic. That's why I suggested writing a "sticky" instead of continually arguing the same point, which apparently brings absolutely no added value to the site each time it is argued. Instead, you can just point newbies to the sticky if you wish to educate them. Beyond that, when someone starts a thread by stating he wants a discussion about the sound of various USB cables, and specifically isn't interested in hearing from those who don't think the differences exist (maybe because he doesn't want to re-read the same argument again, and not because he is lacking in "education") - then it is disrespectful and rude to derail his thread and turn it into another "can cables make a difference?" argument. And that is true even if you are CORRECT. First you may be correct, but there isn't exactly a way for you to prove you are correct to those who don't accept your ideas of proof. And to the OP it is irrelevant, as apparently he hears differences and that's what is important to him. He's not interested in you telling him he's imagining it. It's not a moral imperative for you to convince everyone to accept your point of view - you need to learn to accept that sometimes people have a point of view, won't accept what you consider proof of your POV, aren't interested in being convinced otherwise, you can't convince them, and it is tiresome to most of the community here to read about it again and again. MetalNuts, MikeyFresh, Superdad and 11 others 3 10 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted September 18, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 Go away. Nobody here wants to hear your rational arguments. adamdea, BigAlMc, Sal1950 and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just now, mansr said: Go away. Nobody here wants to hear your rational arguments. Now THAT was funny. 4est and buonassi 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
semente Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Nothing but level-matched triple blind will do! Teresa 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
look&listen Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 "Everything sounds the same" to those who can not hear. (all responses ignored, as all current posters ) esldude and Teresa 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pkane2001 Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 51 minutes ago, mansr said: All components (and cables) sound exactly alike. There are no differences between a $5 clock radio and the finest system money can buy. If you have evidence to the contrary, you are not permitted to say so in this thread. We like our beliefs and wish to keep them undisturbed by reality. I believe my $5 clock radio sounds better than yours when I power it from a $900 LPS. semente, sarvsa, mansr and 3 others 4 2 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 On the lighter side, there is a "non-scientific" side to this: Most of us are well aware of the pernicious effects of the disease known as "audiophilia nervosa", or in layman's terms as "upgrade-itis". It is psychologically difficult for many to accept that their system is optimal and some new piece of equipment or "tweak" won't improve it. Sometimes it is more useful in the real world to try something like a cable and if it "seems" to make a positive difference, just to accept that it does - even if you "know" it isn't rational. It can calm the "nervosa" - b/c in the end if you think it sounds better - it does. Fortunately or unfortunately, that's how our brains work. Few can carry out a true scientifically valid test of most devices anyway - and few well run tests have been carried out at all, even by professionals. So we are left with doing the best we can and accepting the results. Ain't much that can really be done about it. MikeyFresh and Teresa 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 https://books.google.com/books?id=3cYWAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA487 Quote What makes these beliefs irrational is their inflexibility and absoluteness. I must be loved and approved; I must be thoroughly competent; I need someone stronger than myself. The client firmly believes things must be a particular way or something awful or catastrophic will happen. Ellis has used the term musterbation to refer to this kind of irrational thinking. Any time you find yourself thinking that something must be a particular way, you're guilty of musterbation. look&listen 1 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, mansr said: There are no differences between a $5 clock radio and the finest system money can buy. Only true after Frank has "sorted out" all the bugs in both. gmgraves, fas42, mansr and 8 others 8 3 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
adamdea Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, mansr said: Go away. Nobody here wants to hear your rational arguments. I should warn you that I have a rare medical condition which makes me physically sick at the slightest hint of irony, and I will sue. You are not a sound quality measurement device Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, mansr said: Go away. Nobody here wants to hear your rational arguments. I expect that will be most peoples reaction to me at RMAF 18. Link to comment
Allan F Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, mansr said: All components (and cables) sound exactly alike. There are no differences between a $5 clock radio and the finest system money can buy. If you have evidence to the contrary, you are not permitted to say so in this thread. We like our beliefs and wish to keep them undisturbed by reality. Wonderful. Much better than hijacking somebody else' thread. You might even want to grant Sal co-authorship and ask Chris to make this a sticky. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Popular Post Sonicularity Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 I just taped a $20 bill to my DAC and it sounded fuller with more punch. So there! Nordkapp, Foggie, buonassi and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment
Popular Post marce Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Allan F said: Wonderful. Much better than hijacking somebody else' thread. You might even want to grant Sal co-authorship and ask Chris to make this a sticky. Troll ? mansr and Allan F 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post gmgraves Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, firedog said: Weak satire and not really relevant. No one said you aren't "allowed" to post what you want. The question you should be asking yourself: why do you feel compelled to continue to devote reams of posts on the same topic, year after year, thread after thread, when the available evidence suggests you've convinced no one from the other "camp"? Sort of ironic for an "evidence based" objectivist. To most of us the arguments are old and tiresome - no matter what we think about the actual topic. That's why I suggested writing a "sticky" instead of continually arguing the same point, which apparently brings absolutely no added value to the site each time it is argued. Instead, you can just point newbies to the sticky if you wish to educate them. Beyond that, when someone starts a thread by stating he wants a discussion about the sound of various USB cables, and specifically isn't interested in hearing from those who don't think the differences exist (maybe because he doesn't want to re-read the same argument again, and not because he is lacking in "education") - then it is disrespectful and rude to derail his thread and turn it into another "can cables make a difference?" argument. And that is true even if you are CORRECT. First you may be correct, but there isn't exactly a way for you to prove you are correct to those who don't accept your ideas of proof. And to the OP it is irrelevant, as apparently he hears differences and that's what is important to him. He's not interested in you telling him he's imagining it. It's not a moral imperative for you to convince everyone to accept your point of view - you need to learn to accept that sometimes people have a point of view, won't accept what you consider proof of your POV, aren't interested in being convinced otherwise, you can't convince them, and it is tiresome to most of the community here to read about it again and again. OK let's set a hypothetical case. Let's say that some newbie reads Mansr's sarcastic remark that everything sounds alike and believes it? Unlikely, but this is just an example, so it really doesn't matter. He reads that remark and says to himself, "well if everything sounds the same, then I'll just stick with my dad's old console stereo from the early 1960's. No need to spend any money on Hi-fi!" Yes, absurdly hypothetical but the point is that newbies come here all the time, read some of the nonsense posted here (as well as some of the wisdom) and have no idea what is right and what is wishful thinking. it is the duty of everyone here (in my estimation) to give both sides of the story in any controversial discussion. If I say cables have no sound, those who believe that there is need to voice their opinion that I'm wrong, and why. It is then up to the newbie, given two sides of an argument to then go off on his own realizing that there are possibly two equally sincere points of view on the subject and research the topic on his own. Don Hills, mansr, Teresa and 1 other 4 George Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 4 hours ago, mansr said: We like our beliefs 4 hours ago, christopher3393 said: 4 hours ago, mansr said: We're like our beliefs ? IMO both sentences make sense and are true. As for the main topic - I can't even hear the difference between a nightingale singing and the sound of a train coming. I always have to look to know whether it's the former or the later (I probably haven't tried to travel by nightingale yet only due to the fact that my eyesight is still quite good). And that's why I (and probably no one) would never pay for a clock radio as much as for McIntosh or Devialet. You'd have to be blind not to see the difference between them, right.? Teresa 1 Link to comment
rickca Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, gmgraves said: It is then up to the newbie, given two sides of an argument to then go off on his own realizing that there are possibly two equally sincere points of view on the subject and research the topic on his own. I'm so glad there's a grownup in the room. This makes me realize why I like to play with kids. Richard Dale 1 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Sonicularity said: I just taped a $20 bill to my DAC and it sounded fuller with more punch. So there! I just taped a $20 bill to my DAC. However, I used multi-modal mapping to determine the exact place to tape. It resulted in a $400 improvement in sound. The music now has a visceral quality that was completely missing. Nordkapp and lucretius 2 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Sonicularity Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, esldude said: I just taped a $20 bill to my DAC. However, I used multi-modal mapping to determine the exact place to tape. It resulted in a $400 improvement in sound. The music now has a visceral quality that was completely missing. What kind of tape did you use? I recommend a good pressure sensitive adhesive with plasticizer resistance. Unless you never listen to rock music and have no clue that there is a band called The Who, then I would suggest something with a low-surface energy material. If it doesn't cost over $100/meter, it is crap. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 4 hours ago, semente said: Nothing but level-matched triple blind will do! I actually used to know a kid who did do a triple-blind experiment for his PhD. But he was a psychologist... Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted September 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, gmgraves said: OK let's set a hypothetical case. Let's say that some newbie reads Mansr's sarcastic remark that everything sounds alike and believes it? Unlikely, but this is just an example, so it really doesn't matter. He reads that remark and says to himself, "well if everything sounds the same, then I'll just stick with my dad's old console stereo from the early 1960's. No need to spend any money on Hi-fi!" Yes, absurdly hypothetical but the point is that newbies come here all the time, read some of the nonsense posted here (as well as some of the wisdom) and have no idea what is right and what is wishful thinking. it is the duty of everyone here (in my estimation) to give both sides of the story in any controversial discussion. If I say cables have no sound, those who believe that there is need to voice their opinion that I'm wrong, and why. It is then up to the newbie, given two sides of an argument to then go off on his own realizing that there are possibly two equally sincere points of view on the subject and research the topic on his own. And nothing I wrote contradicts your position. It makes no sense every time someone asks about cables to write the same endless arguments over and over again.It’s a topic that’s been beaten to death hundreds of times here. That’s why I suggested Mansr, Sal, and others write a sticky thread with their position and simply refer people to it. Or set up a cable debate thread and debate it there. Refer newbies to it. No reason to continually hijckack multiple threads Into the same argument. Especially when the OP in the other thread was obviously aware of the argument and specifically asked that his question not be turned into such a debate. christopher3393, Teresa, Richard Dale and 1 other 3 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
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