Is Primephonic still in business?

[arrigo]

I have been subscribing to their service for several months but I am no longer able to log in with the iPhone app. I also tried to change my password but never got the automatic email reply. Also, they have not responded to a support ticket that opened 3 days ago. These are bad signs...

[mansr]

The download store is "temporarily" closed, and they are in the process of launching a "fully re-platformed streaming service." I agree, it doesn't look good.

[bmoura]

On 8/23/2018 at 2:53 PM, mansr said:

The download store is "temporarily" closed, and they are in the process of launching a "fully re-platformed streaming service." I agree, it doesn't look good.

 

Not sure what "fully re-platformed streaming" means.  Higher resolution audio streaming? 

Could mean that the site re-opens with streaming but no downloads store.  Puzzling.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

9 hours ago, bmoura said:

 

Not sure what "fully re-platformed streaming" means.  Higher resolution audio streaming? 

Could mean that the site re-opens with streaming but no downloads store.  Puzzling.

I believe that means they are switching over to Orastream's adaptive system.  This was used in Naxos' late lamented streaming system and was very effective.

[greyscale]

The app is for Mac and Android only at this time. Would luv to see  Windows Version added. ONLY then would I consider signing up.

[Bob Stern]

For those who don’t remember Primephonic, here are two bits of info:

 

TAS interview one year ago stating that Primephonic was founded by Dirk Jan Vink and Simon Eder, respectively Managing Director and Director of Marketing and Communications for the classical label Pentatone.  Unclear whether Primephonic is independent or partly/wholly owned by Pentatone:

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primephonic/

 

Original discussion on this forum 4 years ago of the download-only Primephonic store:

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/21841-primephonic-another-source-for-digital-downloads/

[jiminlogansquare]

On 9/7/2018 at 8:58 AM, Kal Rubinson said:

I believe that means they are switching over to Orastream's adaptive system.  This was used in Naxos' late lamented streaming system and was very effective.

As one of those lamenting Naxos' late streaming system (back in its heyday it had literally hundreds of labels streaming in MQA-free >CD hi-resolution), I was super pleased by this. I was one of those not too impressed by the original Primephonic service, but when I receiced an email inviting me to try the new version, I gave it a shot. Still evaluating the new service, but I was intrigued when I saw a credit to OraStream, who created the platform for the late lamented Naxos streaming site. OraStream provides a lossless streaming option (up to 24 bits). Will be testing and listening at home and on iPhone for the next two weeks and will check in here with my impressions. 

[Kal Rubinson]

4 hours ago, jiminlogansquare said:

 Still evaluating the new service, but I was intrigued when I saw a credit to OraStream, who created the platform for the late lamented Naxos streaming site. 

That's a plus.

[OraStream]

3 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

That's a plus.

 

Primephonic is also accessible on most web browsers: https://play.primephonic.com

 

Stereophile did a release review this week for info: https://www.stereophile.com/content/primephonic-launches-classical-streaming-us-and-europe

[mansr]

Is it the same streaming technology as on the Neil Young Archives site?

[Kal Rubinson]

7 hours ago, OraStream said:

Stereophile did a release review this week for info: https://www.stereophile.com/content/primephonic-launches-classical-streaming-us-and-europe

Hardly a review.  Press announcement is more like it.  (Why is almost every post/announcement/comment labeled as a "review?")

[wgscott]

Maybe someone should start a magazine called Stereo Review.     ?

 

The description has piqued my interest.  It is kind of funny to read the comments and see the mental inflexibility.

 

[OraStream]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

Is it the same streaming technology as on the Neil Young Archives site?

 

Yes, primephonic s based on an enhanced implementation of MPEG-4 SLS coding for streaming. When bandwidth allows, audio streams in bit-perfect lossless (native) resolution.

[rodrigaj]

I had signed up to receive email notices from Primephonic. 

 

I was made an offer (no credit card required) on Sept 6 to preview the app for free for 14 days. It looks like it is only good to use on the desktop or laptop for now. After reading through the information, it also appears that there is no DLNA support, so the only way I would be able to listen on my main system would be through the desktop Airplay > ultraRendu shareport or my older Airport Express toslink connection > DAC.

 

I'm not a big fan for exploring new audio apps... especially when Qobuz is around the corner... so I'll probably pass on the offer and wait for Qobuz with fully integrated A+ support and iPad A+ Remote App.

 

Primephonic seems to pop into and out of my life. My initial emails from them go back to 2014. After their last attempt at streaming, with the bad publicity, I thought they were gone for good - especially since they got out of the download business.

 

I hope they succeed as they are the only ones fully vested in the classical genre and that's all I want to stream for serious listening. For music exploration I have found Spotify Premium to be quite acceptable. I finally quit Tidal after almost 5 years. I should have done that long ago.

 

 

[jiminlogansquare]

After a week or so testing the new Primephonic, I was pleased enough with the sound quality to take on a monthly renewal subscription. The SQ seemed markedly better than TIDAL when listening to the same tracks, with and without MQA for the TIDAL tracks (more detail, better spatial cues, better in the high frequencies) and the track loading time also is a bit faster than TIDAL. 

 

Some notes and observations:

 

1.  No desktop app or remote control app for phone/tablet to control the desktop app. Primephonic promises a desktop app "in 2019." They didn't respond about a remote control phone/tablet app to go with the desktop app, so I can't say what they plan in that regard. But read on!

 

2. The Primephonic player is, for the time being, seriously lacking in metadata both for reading and for searching. It also doesn't display info regarding recording quality (sampling rates, bit depth). Just very basic info is available regarding artists, album titles and track titles. And there is no way to do an "advanced" search on metadata (or even a simple search, actually; there is only a way to browse various categories of music). In general this state of affairs is not consistent with Primephonic's dedication to Classical music and the needs of Classical listeners. Primephonic is aware of this and reportedly is working to remedy the situation. Specifically, Primephonic indicated to me that "[m]ore metadata will be added to the Primephonic apps, we already have most of it in our database." Based on the excellent way in which the old Naxos service incorporated tons of metadata fields into its outstandingly functional advanced search feature, and given the fact that OraStream (who powered the Naxos system and likely programmed the metadata search feature for them?) is also powering the new Primephonic service, I am optimistic here; but I haven't directly asked. Perhaps OraStream's rep who posts in this forum might be able to provide insight. But this might ultimately prove an irrelevant concern given the following:

 

3.  I have saved the best for last: Primephonic is planning to integrate with Roon(!), which should of course remedy all the issues noted above! Primephonic indicated to me that "we aim to integrate with Roon starting early 2019."

 

I plan to enjoy excellent sound (better than TIDAL in native resolutions without MQA) at a decent price ($15/month) and see what comes -- and when -- with respect to metadata and Roon integration. 

[steveoat]

I am also trying Primephonic.  I started a subscription and thus far not very impressed.

 

There is a web version for windows, but I have not yet found any files at are 24/96.  I have a project S2 DAC, which lists sampling rate, but nothing has gone beyond 44K.  In an email to Primephonic, they said that for the windows browser, only about one in five albums are high resolution.  There is no way to tell the sampling rate. 

 

I also am having problem playing albums.  Sometimes its fine, sometimes I click on play and nothing happens.

 

So, at this point this feels like a beta test.  Don't know how long it will take for things to improve.

 

Also, the search is pretty primitive.  Looking forward to Qobuz in USA

[jiminlogansquare]

I should add here that I learned from a representative of Roon that my enthusiasm about Primephonic integration with Roon was perhaps misplaced. Roon indicated there is no definitive timeline or certainty regarding that possibility. I guess I read too much into the statement from Primephonic that "we aim to integrate with Roon starting early 2019." The message from Roon boils down to "it takes two to tango," and apparently "we" meant just the folks at Primephonic speaking aspirationally for themselves, not making promises for Roon.

 

I continue to enjoy the SQ more than that of TIDAL, both iOS and Mac OS browser based players while not much caring for the design and user experience of either of the players -- especially the lack of metadata and, as steveoat observes above, lack of bitrate/resolution info on individual files. I will remain cautiously optimistic about an eventual Roon integration. Roon didn't categorically deny they and Primephonic were in discussions at all, only that it was by no means a done deal and I would be mistaken to believe otherwise. And Primephonic has promised upgrades to its metadata presentation. We shall see!

[rodrigaj]

After my disappointment with IDAGIO, which I noted here:

 

I began my 14 day free trial with PRIMEPHONIC today, after I verified that their iOS App supports gapless streaming. Some of what follows @jiminlogansquare has already covered in his earlier review. 

I'm going Airplay > ultraRendu > PS Audio DAC. They don't have a desktop app that I could find, but they do have a Chrome browser page that is accessible only after you have already signed up via their iOS app. That was weird - you can't sign up for their service from your desktop computer.

The platinum plan goes for $14.99/mo or $149/year. That makes it competitive with Digital Concert Hall (BPO) and I believe for some of Qobuz' tiers - when Qobuz comes to the USA. ( @David Craff)

For $14.99/mo you get up to 24bit streaming, so high resolution is there if that matters to you. Trouble is their is no way to find what albums are 24 bits until you start streaming and....

My problem is that the only way I have figured out how to get the music stream to my speakers is via Airplay. Unfortunately, Airplay throttles the bit rate to 16bits. I have queried PRIMEPHONIC support to see how they would recommend streaming 24 bit hires files.

In any case, the sound quality is superb and I had no stuttering, stops or other anomalies during my brief first trial.

I listened to Isabelle Fausts' Oktett album of Schubert's music on Harmonia Mundi. Wonderful album, BTW.

I have not had time to play around with the iOS app, so I can't comment on its attributes and quirks. I'll come back here and give my impressions after I've had a chance to try it out. I would love to support all of these classical music only services.

[rodrigaj]

I received a response from PRIMEPHONIC about the availability of a desktop app and about DLNA support and 24 bit streaming. 

 

Because I don't want a computer in my listening room, Airplay (iPad)> ultraRendu (16 bit) is my only option.

 

Here is their response:

 

Thank you for your e-mail and interest in Primephonic.

At the moment, we do not yet have a desktop app. We are aware that this would be a feature that people would be interested in and is therefore definitely on our roadmap. I have made a note of your feedback and we hope to launch a desktop app in the near future.

As it turns out, direct streaming towards sound systems is not yet possible. We are working to make this possible for many sound systems, such as Sonos and Bluesound, in the near future. Ways to bypass this are Bluetooth and indeed AirPlay. To ensure the best quality stream, however, I would for the moment, until DLNA options come available, suggest a cabled connection to a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) which is connected to the speaker system.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Kind regards,
Marco
Primephonic Customer Support

[rodrigaj]

PRIMEPHONIC:

With six days to go in my free trial, I know I won't be continuing my subscription.

 

The search function is simply too frustrating to use... and... don't start an album playing and begin another search while listening. You will have to start the search for the album that is playing all over again to get back to it.

 

Furthermore, I found that PRIMEPHONIC will do this to albums some of the time:

Good luck trying to figure out which sonata is playing.

 

I found that If you are content to hang out in their homepage with their picks, new releases, etc... that you stand a better chance to enjoy the service. Not even their curated playlists are of much value since they include only excerpts from pieces. For example, a Bach 2nd movement followed by a Mozart 3rd movement.

 

The whole experience is even more remarkable given that they promote themselves as a classical music enterprise.

 

I do recommend that you give them a try. No credit card is required if you don't choose a plan during the initial 14 days.