Schiit Yggdrasil Vs PS Audio Directstream Junior

[Latenight]

5 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

Then why would you bother to open up a brick and mortar store (appropriately called "The Schiiter") if you don't want to talk to your customers?

i mean if i lived in California sure that would have sold the problem, however i live 2000 miles away. 

[Roy724]

You guys might be right about burn in. I ran the Directstream for about 10 hours and suddenly tonight the sound started changing. It got much better, especially on my HD800. I think I'm going to keep it for a while and see how it improves over time. It actually does sound very good. Late tonight I listened to a collection of songs I've heard since childhood and they have never sounded better. It's very subtle, though, and I'm not sure_why_they sound better. But certain songs that sounded mediocre before now sound great.

 

I have a question for everyone which I'm trying to figure out: why do CDs playing on the old dac sound much louder than the Directstream when set to the same volume? The Directstream has a soft sound. Is that some kind of difference between Hi Resolution and Low? Does low resolution sound louder? Is it compression or something? I noticed that if I turn the volume up with the Direcstream then it sounds better. Still, there is this huge difference in loudness that I can't figure out. I'm still trying to figure out which sound I prefer because at first I liked the CD playing on the old dac better but now the soft sound of the Directstream is growing on me. It almost seems easier to listen to. Can someone explain this to me?

[JMD54]

The output level on the Directstream is below the standard 2v and 4v level on both outputs according to the designer.  So yes it needs to be turned up higher to reach the same level.

[asdf1000]

3 hours ago, Roy724 said:

You guys might be right about burn in. I ran the Directstream for about 10 hours and suddenly tonight the sound started changing. It got much better, especially on my HD800. I think I'm going to keep it for a while and see how it improves over time. It actually does sound very good.

 

As others mentioned on the previous page, make good use of the 30 days return period (make sure you double check these terms & conditions and ask them if in doubt).

 

After 20 days, it will have 480 hours on it. That gives you a comfortable 10 days to return it, if that's what you decide.

 

 

[rickca]

8 hours ago, Roy724 said:

it sounds identical to the Dacmagic!

What source components have you tried?  Pairing a $6000 DAC with other components that are nowhere near the same quality isn't going to let your DAC show you its true potential.

[ShawnC]

8 hours ago, Roy724 said:

 I used Elac Uni Fi UF5 tower speakers with an Onkyo TX-NR676 receiver connected to the Directstream with analog RCA cables. 

This may be part of the problem when listening through your speakers.  Your receiver will take all that hard work your DAC is doing and then reconvert the signal again internally. Now you have the sound of the Onkyo receiver not PS Audio's DAC.  Unless you have true bypass mode engaged.  When I had my Marantz receiver and Bel Canto DAC setup this way everything sounded like the Marantz signature, even with bypass mode on.  After experimenting with that, I went straight into the amps. 

 

It was night and day when I plugged my DirectStream DAC Jr. and Sr. in for the first time.  I've had the Sr. in the system for only a week and it's unbelievable how good it sounds. YMMV, good luck.

[Nordkapp]

8 hours ago, Roy724 said:

I feel sick to my stomach with what I'm about to write. I love PS Audio and I think they are an excellent company. Before I bought the Directstream this week my old dac is a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Plus. The Dacmagic is a $350 dac, the Directstream is a $6,000 dac. Today when I got the Directstream, I turned it on and let it warm up for an hour before listening. When I listened, my first impression was shock...it sounds identical to the Dacmagic! I spend several hours listening and all the reviews are b.s. This dac is has no more detail, resolution or transparency than the Dacmagic to my ears. The soundstage is the same, imaging the same, separation of instruments the same, timber and tonal characteristics the same, everything is the same. I tried out all of the inputs with different sources and a variety of files, streaming and CD with different genres of music. I used Elac Uni Fi UF5 tower speakers with an Onkyo TX-NR676 receiver connected to the Directstream with analog RCA cables. Also I used my Sennheiser HD800 headphones with a Schiit Lyr 2 headphone amp connected with RCA.

 

After hearing no difference I decided to A/B the Dacmagic with the Directstream. The only difference I can hear is that ironically the Dacmagic sounds louder and punchier; it actually sounds better to me than the Directstream. And yes, I have the volume on the Directstream turned up to 100. The Directstream sounds softer. Other than those differences, though, they sound the same. I am so upset and confused.

 

Are all the reviewers paid to write a bunch of exaggeration and fluff? Why do some owners think this dac sounds so great? I know someone is going to reply and tell me about hundreds of hours of burn it. Seriously, if I pay $6,000 for a dac it should sound good right out of the box. Maybe make some subtle improvements over time but it should sound better than this.

 

I expected this dac to sound night and day different and better than the Dacmagic. The salespeople indicated that it would. Well, it does not. I feel like I got suckered. It's a beautiful, well built dac and I really love how it looks. But if it don't sound right then what's the point. Does anyone have any input for me? Why does a $6,000 dac sound like a $350 dac? What is the problem? Do I have it hooked up wrong or something? I'm pretty sure it's connected right.

 

I have no idea what to say. I spent months obsessing over a new dac and doing hundreds of hours of research. Does the Yggdrasil sound different and better? From what people say the Directstream and Yggdrasil basically sound the same so that means that the Yggdrasil also sounds like a $350 dac. I just don't get it. Can someone help me out?

 

All I do know is, if anyone reading this is thinking about buying a high end dac you might want to think twice. I'm not the type to believe that all dacs sound the same because my Schiit Modi dac sounds nothing at all like the Dacmagic. The Dacmagic sound totally different and better than the Modi. Yet the Directstream disappoints me. I expected the moon for that kind of money. Are differences between dacs simply THAT subtle? If they are, then WHY in the world would someone spend $6,000 on one. I did because I expected it to totally obliterate the Dacmagic in sound quality. Boy was I wrong. Hopefully my experience can help others out there. If you want a great dac, just buy a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Plus. Honestly, it sounds almost exactly the same as the Direcstream and maybe the same as the Yggdrasil too I suppose.

$6k is a waste of money for a DAC. Get rid of it and reallocate those funds towards speakers and room treatment. Your receiver is likely bottlenecking the sound also.

[rrwwss52]

10 hours ago, Roy724 said:

I feel sick to my stomach with what I'm about to write. I love PS Audio and I think they are an excellent company. Before I bought the Directstream this week my old dac is a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Plus. The Dacmagic is a $350 dac, the Directstream is a $6,000 dac. Today when I got the Directstream, I turned it on and let it warm up for an hour before listening. When I listened, my first impression was shock...it sounds identical to the Dacmagic! I spend several hours listening and all the reviews are b.s. This dac is has no more detail, resolution or transparency than the Dacmagic to my ears. The soundstage is the same, imaging the same, separation of instruments the same, timber and tonal characteristics the same, everything is the same. I tried out all of the inputs with different sources and a variety of files, streaming and CD with different genres of music. I used Elac Uni Fi UF5 tower speakers with an Onkyo TX-NR676 receiver connected to the Directstream with analog RCA cables. Also I used my Sennheiser HD800 headphones with a Schiit Lyr 2 headphone amp connected with RCA.

 

After hearing no difference I decided to A/B the Dacmagic with the Directstream. The only difference I can hear is that ironically the Dacmagic sounds louder and punchier; it actually sounds better to me than the Directstream. And yes, I have the volume on the Directstream turned up to 100. The Directstream sounds softer. Other than those differences, though, they sound the same. I am so upset and confused.

 

Are all the reviewers paid to write a bunch of exaggeration and fluff? Why do some owners think this dac sounds so great? I know someone is going to reply and tell me about hundreds of hours of burn it. Seriously, if I pay $6,000 for a dac it should sound good right out of the box. Maybe make some subtle improvements over time but it should sound better than this.

 

I expected this dac to sound night and day different and better than the Dacmagic. The salespeople indicated that it would. Well, it does not. I feel like I got suckered. It's a beautiful, well built dac and I really love how it looks. But if it don't sound right then what's the point. Does anyone have any input for me? Why does a $6,000 dac sound like a $350 dac? What is the problem? Do I have it hooked up wrong or something? I'm pretty sure it's connected right.

 

I have no idea what to say. I spent months obsessing over a new dac and doing hundreds of hours of research. Does the Yggdrasil sound different and better? From what people say the Directstream and Yggdrasil basically sound the same so that means that the Yggdrasil also sounds like a $350 dac. I just don't get it. Can someone help me out?

 

All I do know is, if anyone reading this is thinking about buying a high end dac you might want to think twice. I'm not the type to believe that all dacs sound the same because my Schiit Modi dac sounds nothing at all like the Dacmagic. The Dacmagic sound totally different and better than the Modi. Yet the Directstream disappoints me. I expected the moon for that kind of money. Are differences between dacs simply THAT subtle? If they are, then WHY in the world would someone spend $6,000 on one. I did because I expected it to totally obliterate the Dacmagic in sound quality. Boy was I wrong. Hopefully my experience can help others out there. If you want a great dac, just buy a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Plus. Honestly, it sounds almost exactly the same as the Direcstream and maybe the same as the Yggdrasil too I suppose.

You should a happy guy saving more than $5K if you can’t tell the difference.  I just recently sold my DAC Magic Plus....nice device.  yours must be special, because IMO, to my ears, its not in the same league with the PS Audio DS JR, which is the model below the DS.

 

Give it few days to be sure.  Leave in on playing music to your AVR, or preamp.

[audio.bill]

With all due respect I concur that an Onkyo receiver does not provide an appropriate level of performance to be able to reveal the true potential of the DS DAC. Nothing wrong with it and Onkyo makes a good product, but it will be a bottleneck in the system with a source component like the DS. There's no end to the madness... 

[Dr Tone]

Give yourself a week or so of getting used to the DS.  Then switch back to the dacmagic for 3 days and then back to the DS.

 

More often then not a quick ab between dacs has them sounding quite similar.  Some time will help distinguish nuances of one dac over another.  Most subjective reviews exagerate these nuances and diminishing returns will have to be weighed in when making your final decision.

[Ralf11]

Lots of good advice above; also, use the most demanding & best recorded source material for listening comparisons.

 

You are moving into rarified heights with the DAC but not the with the Onkyo...

[Blake]

OP:  I am curious now, when you had your discussions with PSAudio, did they ask you to list your current system?  If you did describe your system to them and they encouraged you to buy the senior, that is disturbing.  

 

You had a very nicely balanced system with nice speakers.  Now with the Sr., your system is out of balance.  The Sr. is by all accounts an outstanding DAC but it is way overkill with your system.  It is an extreme misallocation of your audio budget, unless you are planning significant upgrades to the rest of your system in the near term.  And to be clear, your current system is great.  

 

Return it.

[Latenight]

7 minutes ago, Blake said:

OP:  I am curious now, when you had your discussions with PSAudio, did they ask you to list your current system?  If you did describe your system to them and they encouraged you to buy the senior, that is disturbing.  

 

You had a very nicely balanced system with nice speakers.  Now with the Sr., your system is out of balance.  The Sr. is by all accounts an outstanding DAC but it is way overkill with your system.  It is an extreme misallocation of your audio budget, unless you are planning significant upgrades to the rest of your system in the near term.  And to be clear, your current system is great.  

 

Return it.

have to agree with this, why not return it for the Jr and use the money to replace that onkyo? 

[Roy724]

This year I updated my whole system. I recently got the speakers and I just bought the Onkyo receiver about 4 months ago and I love it. I think that it sounds amazing and it made a massive improvement to my overall system; I upgraded from a 15 year old Sony receiver and the difference was drastic. Yes, PS Audio knew all of my components and they suggested the Senior over the Junior and said both are superior to the Yggdrasil including Ted Smith himself.

 

Remember how I thought that I heard improvement after running it for a while...I think that was placebo or my imagination. All day today I I A/B the Directstream with the Dacmagic again. Also I let several audiophile friends listen to both of them and compare. And I let multiple family members who are not audiophiles listen and compare. EVERYONE agreed that the Directstream sounds identical to the Dacmagic except that the Dacmagic is louder they all said. Also, everyone agreed that they preferred the sound of the Dacmagic. Several of them told me I would be a fool not to return the Direcstream and that it was a waste of money.

 

I want to love this dac so much. It's very well made and looks nice in my setup. I keep listening just hoping to find a reason to keep it. But the more I listen the more I am absolutely positive the Directstream sounds exactly like the Dacmagic. And that's what everyone around me thinks too. So unfortunately, I think that I'm going to return it on Monday. It totally disappoints in every way and does NOTHING that it claims to do in advertisement and reviews. It's not the slightest bit more detailed than the dacmagic and that's the main reason I bought it. So I guess it's going back. I only wonder if I'd have the same results with the Yggdrasil...probably. I can't believe I spent literally ALL my time obsessing over these dacs and researching them these past 3 months. Lesson learned--don't believe reviews, they are b.s.

[ShawnC]

Borrow a proper analog preamp with no digital inputs or digital conversions and listen to both DACs, there's a significant difference between the two.  Or plug the DirectStream DAC directly into a amplifier you'll hear the difference.

 

What's the model of your Onkyo Receiver?   Found it from your earlier post 

 

Are you listening in Direct mode on the Onkyo receiver?

[diecaster]

I think you should send it back and keep the DAC you have. If you are not going to be patient and think the DAC you have sounds identical, you are just wastin your money and our time. 

[Latenight]

If you can't hear the difference then you should return it and find something else to do for fun besides this. For me the difference is staggering btwn this and other hi end dacs, and I have the Jr! 

[Roy724]

A lot of people are saying that the problem is my Onkyo receiver. Remember I'm getting the same results with my headphones. I use the Sennheiser HD800. That is among the most resolving headphones on the planet. For an amp I'm using the Schiit Lyr 2. That amp is also highly resolving and powerful for headphones. The Direcstream sounds the same on the Lyr 2 as the Onkyo. I've been A/B ing the Direcstream with the Dacmagic on the Lyr 2 and they sound the same. All my guests also listened on the Lyr 2 and HD800 and they agreed. I contacted PS Audio and explained this problem. We'll see what they have to say on Monday. Maybe something is hooked up wrong or something. I'm connecting the dacs with RCA to the Lyr 2 and Onkyo. For sources I'm using an Oppo UDP 203 CD player connected with coaxial and for streaming and downloaded files I'm using a Macbook Pro connected with USB. I have the Direcstream set to High output with volume at 100. I have no idea what is wrong. The Lyr 2 is a highly capable amp. More than adequate enough.

[Latenight]

I think you could stand to have a better headphone amp as well. I am using a rogue rh-5 with gold lion tubes. Try listening with an amp that has an equivalent soundstage and you should be golden. Also XLR is a much better (for me) sound than rca. I am using hd800 S as well. 

[Roy724]

Can I burn the Directstream in by just leaving it powered on 24/7 for a week? I can't really play music on it 24/7 because the only way I can think to do that is by running internet radio. I don't want to run my Macbook 24/7 because that is hard on the computer and sucks up my data usage. I have a very limited data plan. I just read a review saying his DS sounded terrible out of the box until he left it on for a week then it sounded right. So will burn in occur just from leaving it powered on? If I turn off the unit and uplug it for a while will the burn in revert backwards?

[Latenight]

Do internet radio 24/7 for a week. If you do not hear a difference after then return it. 

[diecaster]

@Roy724

 

Have been ignoring everything being posted here???

[JMD54]

Roy

 

Do you not own a CD or DVD player of any type?

[Nordkapp]

Send it back. Invest the $6k. 

[Latenight]

I am knew to this forum but this person could be trolling.