In search of a good inexpensive off-the-shelf USB cable (jssg 360 and other talk)

[beerandmusic]

16 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

You have more experience in hifi gear than I thought, Respect!  

 

Understood...i have very little to zero experience with usb cables.  About 7 years ago, i found that i preferred streaming DSD over ethernet (even via a cheap sony bluray player doing DLNA) than using usb, so i never played with usb much.  I took another shot at USB a few years ago when i tried both a schiit multibit gen5 and a wyred4sound, and still preferred streaming DSD via DLNA.  I really haven't visited USB except on those few occasions...even my secondary system that i compute on, i use spdif.  I am playing with the idea of trying usb again just out of curiosity.  Over past five years or so, i probably have tried a couple hundred different speakers, a dozen dacs, a couple dozen amplifiers....mainly because i buy/sell for extra retirement income....i make money on most of what i buy and resell, dacs being the exception....i am also a minority in that I still like vinyl too...something about the sound, that I enjoy breaking out a record from time to time.

 

My best guess is that with USB you need galvanic isolation and good shielding cable.  The fact you can get an ALLO dac now with galvanic isolation for under $300, no one should even consider any dac anymore without galvanic isolation, if they decide on going USB.

[Monge]

@beerandmusic

Here you have some reviews of Supra USB 2.0 cables,

http://www.jenving.com/reviews

 

Here you have some Cheap USB cables test

http://www.soundbsessive.com/cheap-usb-cables/

 

Belkin Gold came bundled with the AMR DP-777

 

Cheers

 

[beerandmusic]

5 hours ago, Monge said:

@beerandmusic

Here you have some reviews of Supra USB 2.0 cables,

http://www.jenving.com/reviews

 

Here you have some Cheap USB cables test

http://www.soundbsessive.com/cheap-usb-cables/

 

Belkin Gold came bundled with the AMR DP-777

 

Cheers

 

 

Thanks for sharing....Interesting read...

 

nice to see that they reviewed the $10 belkin and the $100 aq cinnamon in same "cheap cable" comparison and the $10 Belkin indeed seems to have bested it.  It would be interestting to see a comparison between the belkin and the Supra, not sure the description of the belkin could be any better when they say "very musical"....

 

I am curious though about how they suggest one cable can make music bassy, if the bass is not in the music...i would love an objective reason how a usb cable could make music bassy....that is one thing i did like about the schiit dac though...it did seem to make bass more pronounced, but that is a dac, not a cable...and I kind of liked that.  I guess i can understand how a converter can make music sound more bassy, but not sure how a cable can do that, unless the bass is already in the  music and it is just making the music more transparent.

 

 

 

[Monge]

18 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Thanks for sharing....Interesting read...

 

nice to see that they reviewed the $10 belkin and the $100 aq cinnamon in same "cheap cable" comparison and the $10 Belkin indeed seems to have bested it.  It would be interestting to see a comparison between the belkin and the Supra, not sure the description of the belkin could be any better when they say "very musical"....

 

I am curious though about how they suggest one cable can make music bassy, if the bass is not in the music...i would love an objective reason how a usb cable could make music bassy....that is one thing i did like about the schiit dac though...it did seem to make bass more pronounced, but that is a dac, not a cable...and I kind of liked that.  I guess i can understand how a converter can make music sound more bassy, but not sure how a cable can do that, unless the bass is already in the  music and it is just making the music more transparent.

 

 

 

I think the thing with cables is very system dependent. The guy who tested the Lindy Gold say his “Electrocompaniet integrated (which is also quite thick sounding”

I did buy 0.5 Lindy Black/red USB Cable a long time ago and did like it, but I felt it was a little thin sounding, mainly instruments and singers.

The only reason I did’nt buy the Belkin Gold are, that It is almost imposibel to get In EU. I’m In Denmark and the taxes here is quite high.

The Supra USB here In Denmark is 31$.

I look forward to your impression with your USB’s cables.

Cheers

[Summit]

On 8/22/2018 at 3:44 PM, Monge said:

I think the thing with cables is very system dependent. The guy who tested the Lindy Gold say his “Electrocompaniet integrated (which is also quite thick sounding”

I did buy 0.5 Lindy Black/red USB Cable a long time ago and did like it, but I felt it was a little thin sounding, mainly instruments and singers.

The only reason I did’nt buy the Belkin Gold are, that It is almost imposibel to get In EU. I’m In Denmark and the taxes here is quite high.

The Supra USB here In Denmark is 31$.

I look forward to your impression with your USB’s cables.

Cheers

 

All devices in an audio system is more or less system dependent. A cable is however less system dependent than many other parts of the audio chain IMO.

[Monge]

42 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

All devices in an audio system is more or less system dependent. A cable is however less system dependent than many other parts of the audio chain IMO.

In a way we agree.

I read somewhere

”Cables can never make the signal better, only worse. So the best cables are the ones, that spoil the signal at least.”

 

I can see, that you have a Gigawatt PC3-EVO. What is your opinion on the Gigawatt PC2-Evo? I have the chance to buy a second hand unit.

Cheers Monge

[Summit]

31 minutes ago, Monge said:

In a way we agree.

I read somewhere

”Cables can never make the signal better, only worse. So the best cables are the ones, that spoil the signal at least.”

 

I can see, that you have a Gigawatt PC3-EVO. What is your opinion on the Gigawatt PC2-Evo? I have the chance to buy a second hand unit.

Cheers Monge

 

Yes a cables can never make the signal better, only worse. The same is true for all audio gear.

 

Sorry I don’t know how good the Gigawatt PC2-Evo is. I have never had it in my system.

[beerandmusic]

 

2 hours ago, Monge said:

”Cables can never make the signal better, only worse. So the best cables are the ones, that spoil the signal at least.”

 

Which brings me back to the question of how a cable can make music bassy, unless it is that the signal already was bassy and one cable made it more transparent.  If I understood Miska, both him and Barrows suggested that if bits are lost, you would hear it as in stutters or dropouts.  Even in the most basic cable, if you don't have dropouts, and if you have dealt with RFI in some way (e.g. shielding or ferrites), that any basic cable "should" be up to it's job of doing nothing more than transferring the bits.

[Monge]

Regarding ferrite or ferrites. That make me wondering, which ferrite type to use for a USB Cable?

There are so many different ferrites on the market to choose from.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, Monge said:

Regarding ferrite or ferrites. That make me wondering, which ferrite type to use for a USB Cable?

There are so many different ferrites on the market to choose from.

 

On 8/19/2018 at 11:45 AM, Miska said:

 

What I've tested, using bog standard USB HiSpeed certified cables with ferrites makes more difference than audiophile USB cables that usually don't make a difference or make things worse.

 

you mention that you think usb cables with ferrites seems to work best in your testing.  Do you think that  ferrites on "BOG" usb compliant cables are effective?  I read one mfr advertisement stated that Not all ferrites are tuned correctly (whatever that means?) to be used with  high frequency data transfer cable without changing the electrical properties of the cable to the point where the data transfer is corrupted and/or slowed down?

 

 

8/20/2018 at 12:14 PM, Miska said:

 

You can get cables with built-in ferrites (regularly also as freebies with either pro-audio gear, scanners, digital cameras, etc etc). Or you can get correct ferrites. For example my Focusrite Forte, Epson Scanner and HP touch screen monitor came with USB cable with built-in/on ferrite.

 

There's no "slowed down", it would be corrupted instead. And since USB Audio Class doesn't have error correction, you'd have snap'crackle'and'pop, or device disconnects. Usually when I've encountered corrupted data or device disconnects on USB, it has been with audiophile USB cables (actually never seen a certified one) or with USB gadgets on the path.

 

With the blue USB 3 cables I haven't used ferrites yet, these can be used on some audio gear, like Holo Audio DACs and some iFi gear. For those I just use cheap ordinary certified USB 3 cable

 

 

[Monge]

@beerandmusic

Rob Watts says

 

What USB cables are best?

So what are the best USB cables? Firstly, be careful. A lot of audiophile USB cables actually increase RF noise and make it sound brighter, and superficially impressive - but this is just distortion brightening things up. Go for USB cables that have ferrites in the cable is a good idea - it may also solve any RF issues from the mobile that you may have too.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-94#post-12262339

 

And here Rob Watts test BNC cables with specific ferrites

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-87#post-13696537

 

I want to mention that the Supra USB Cable is USB 2.0 certified.

[Jking]

https://www.tripplite.com/usb-2.0-high-speed-a-b-cable-ferrite-chokes-male-3-ft~U023003

 

 

[wwaldmanfan]

On 8/27/2018 at 11:31 AM, Monge said:

@beerandmusic

Rob Watts says

What USB cables are best?

So what are the best USB cables? Firstly, be careful. A lot of audiophile USB cables actually increase RF noise and make it sound brighter, and superficially impressive - but this is just distortion brightening things up. Go for USB cables that have ferrites in the cable is a good idea - it may also solve any RF issues from the mobile that you may have too.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-94#post-12262339

And here Rob Watts test BNC cables with specific ferrites

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-87#post-13696537

I want to mention that the Supra USB Cable is USB 2.0 certified.

 

I use the Kimber Kable Cu, which was one of the first "audiophile" USB cables on the market. It comes with removable ferrites on each end. It connects my MacBook Pro to my NAD M51, which requires no 5v power connection. Testing it with and without the ferrites, I heard little or no difference, so I don't use them. I also have a Supra and a Belkin Gold. I don't hear any difference between any of them. Just my subjective opinion.

[zzeeser]

On 8/29/2018 at 3:05 AM, wwaldmanfan said:

 

I use the Kimber Kable Cu, which was one of the first "audiophile" USB cables on the market.

 I am using it now .

[beerandmusic]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:05 PM, wwaldmanfan said:

 

I use the Kimber Kable Cu, which was one of the first "audiophile" USB cables on the market. It comes with removable ferrites on each end. It connects my MacBook Pro to my NAD M51, which requires no 5v power connection. Testing it with and without the ferrites, I heard little or no difference, so I don't use them. I also have a Supra and a Belkin Gold. I don't hear any difference between any of them. Just my subjective opinion.

 

just curious, did you set up a switchbox where you could a/b the 2 cables?

either way, it is good to hear you don't think there is any difference between any of the 3 cables, with or without ferrites....that would be my guess as well....not sure I beleive any "hoopla" surrounding usb cables.

[wwaldmanfan]

On 9/4/2018 at 6:49 PM, beerandmusic said:

 

just curious, did you set up a switchbox where you could a/b the 2 cables?

either way, it is good to hear you don't think there is any difference between any of the 3 cables, with or without ferrites....that would be my guess as well....not sure I beleive any "hoopla" surrounding usb cables.

 

No. I played songs that I am familar with for hours switching the cables in and out by hand. which takes 10 seconds. At one point, I had five USB cables. In addition to the Kimber Cu,  Supra, and Belkin Gold from my laser printer, I also had a Kimber Au and a custom-made Australian USB cable that had no power leg and a cotton dialectric. I actually did hear a difference. The 100% silver Kimber Kable Au sounded bright in my system with my B&W's and Peachtree DAC that I was using at the time. Tthe Australian cable I bought specifically for the NAD M51 somehow seemed toneless.

This is all anecdotal and subjective, of course. To be honest, my hearing has deteriorated from age, and too many really loud rock concerts over the years.

So, the cheaper cables worked out best. The reason I'm using the 1M Kimber Cu over the 0.7M Supra is I need the extra length, and the Kimber has better-fitting plugs.

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

So, the cheaper cables worked out best. The reason I'm using the 1M Kimber Cu over the 0.7M Supra is I need the extra length, and the Kimber has better-fitting plugs.

 

 I have found with generic USB cables, that some are markedly thinner than others, and it's not due to the thickness of the outer cable.

The thicker ones appear to work more reliably at longer lengths than the thin ones, almost certainly due to using heavier gauge copper wire with perhaps a higher % shield coverage too.

It's also best to keep the types with ferrites on them for short lengths or Printer cables !

[Panelhead]

  I use USB for disc drives. Try to use the shortest that will reach. I have some 6” and 1’ USB for stacked drives. These are all USB 2.0.

  Most the current drives are USB 3.0. When I was converting a lot of ISO files to 96/24 using USB 3.0 was a big improvement in speed.

  One huge downside is RFI from USB 3.0. Found with the drives and hubs close to the computer the wireless mouse and keyboard were effected. It took careful placement and cable dressing to have reliable connections from just 10’ away. Never saw this issue with USB 2.0.

  All the RFI cannot be good for sound quality. It may be a good thing that most dacs are USB 2.0.