In search of a good inexpensive off-the-shelf USB cable (jssg 360 and other talk)

[beerandmusic]

INRE JSSG360...

I wish the "magic" of usb cable improvement could be unleashed.  From things i have read the double-shielding is the biggee...

 

From what I have read, John Swenson (JSSG) discovered that putting a return wire on a shield improves SQ, and then tubelover2 on audiomart further found that whatever that little wire did, that just using a second shield VASTLY improves on it....and now Lemitche has been providing a few DIY cables (apparently with doubleshield ) to others here that have testified that the double shield concept truly works. 

 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1469

 

It also has been reported by superdad that even applying some of these tricks to expensive cables improves on them.

 

For the rest of us, that don't DIY or know someone to build ua a cable, and can't afford expensive cables, is an inexpensive cable available that does similarly?

 

anyway,....after everything I have read, .i personally am interested in an inexpensive off the shelf double shield cable if one exists?

 

googling double shielded usb cables, i found these....

 

https://prod-www-origin.belkin.com/usb2_cables.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Hi-Speed-Ferrite-U023-006/dp/B003MQ29B2

 

Superdad, can you tell me if either of these "double shielded" cables Would come close to what the jssg360 does for those that don't want to DIY?  Or if not, if there are any off-the-shelf inexpensive cables that approach the JSSG concept?  The post from audiomart suggested the double-shielding is more dramatic than the jssg360 by itself and even lemitche suggested his solution uses double shield.

 

They both say they are double shielded...and the latter has 2 chokes said to help eliminate rfi?...reading the comments, someone said they used with dac and it stopped dropout issues he was previously having?

 

Also, is my understanding correct that double-shielding works for both PS cables as well as USB cables?

[beerandmusic]

an interesting read...

 

http://passionforsound.lachlanfennen.com/massive-usb-comparison-test/

[beerandmusic]

continuing my google search on "double shield usb", i did find someone that recommended the belkin double shield gold (first link $10) as compared to an audioquest forest (which is what i am currently using $50)...

 

[beerandmusic]

 

as my mind is always wandering (I hate ADD), a thought occurred to me...i have always thought enet sounds better than usb as far as 7+ years ago now.... anyway, i am wondering if perhaps that recent advancements of knowledge of this shielding is putting usb more on a level playing field as enet, that perhaps enet didn't suffer the way usb did due to insufficient shielding and other inherent jitter issues with the usb interface....  Perhaps with high resolution, jitter is a bigger issue than standard usb was initially intended for, and that now usb can be more on par with enet?  With advancement of newer dacs incorporating galvanic isolation, realization of double shielded usb cables, usb toys...i think usb deserves a second chance with a newer dac (one with advertised usb isolation) and a double-shielded cable?

[rando]

My personal favorite part of that AudioMart thread.

 

Quote

So it seems all the Hyperblovating on CA about this JSSG or JSSG360 is a silly waist of time.

 

Which came hot on the heels of visiting the second Lush'ings product page and seeing a button on bottom of the page that says "BACK TO CABLES AND MORE SNAKES & OIL"  All in all this has been a very entertaining start to my morning and Phasure product release.

 

 

I understand the yellow dress and dressed down business attire.  Can anyone identify the dance though?  

 

[beerandmusic]

20 minutes ago, rando said:

My personal favorite part of that AudioMart thread.

 

 

Which came hot on the heels of visiting the second Lush'ings product page and seeing a button on bottom of the page that says "BACK TO CABLES AND MORE SNAKES & OIL"  All in all this has been a very entertaining start to my morning and Phasure product release.

 

 

I understand the yellow dress and dressed down business attire.  Can anyone identify the dance though?  

 

 

and to expand about jssg being a waste, audiomart thread takeaway was that double-shielding accomplishes far more....and my continued research suggests same, from lemitche diy cables to other reviews on other sites that also suggest double-shielding does work.  I personally am sold on double-shielding to minimize jitter, the rest of the stuff....not-so-much....i won't minimize the jssg though, as it has brought further investigation in, which HAS led to more knowledge about double-shielding.

[beerandmusic]

Lemitche replied in another thread and shared the following information:

 

Here is all you need. Make sure you can use the USB 3 cable below otherwise find a Startech USB 2 cable.

 

Cable

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002GO18BS/ref=twister_B07F25RNLB?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

Braid

https://www.amazon.com/Tinned-Copper-Metal-Braided-Sleeving/dp/B01BIBQ940/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534627867&sr=1-1&keywords=1%2F2+inch+tinned+copper

 

Shrink wrap between layers

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071ZF5CFG/ref=twister_B0773ZGQQV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

Tools are a pair of scissors and a heat gun. Instructions are above.

 

 

==============

 

I haven't found Lemiche's instructions yet, but I will keep my eyes open...

anyway, based on his input, the other cables were usb 2.0 and he recommended 3.0, so i am now thinking this cable will do the trick....hopefully he will post instructions here and if he believes this cable will work as an "off-the-shelf" solution....

 

https://www.computercablestore.com/usb-30-superspeed-cable-a-to-b-mm-6ft

 

Networx™ USB 3.0 cables are double-shielded with a dual foil and braid. The connector is surrounded by a metal shield and the cable braid is also soldered to the connector to create an end-to-end full shielding solution guaranteeing a noise-free connection.

[beerandmusic]

nvm

[beerandmusic]

Ok, i got lmiche's response, and if i understand correctly, this is all that is needed to make any cable JSSG360...Lmiche can interject if i got anything wrong.

 

Simple step-by-step instructions to create a double shield (referred to as JSSG360 by many) to help minimize RFI/EFI noise and reduce jitter.

 

1.     start with any cable (can be usb, power, etc).  In this example we will use a standard usb cable such as

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-2-0-Cable-Male/dp/B00NH13DV2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&dd=DoPIaQGjTJmlMsMv6SFCXQ%2C%2C&ddc_refnmnt=pfsd&ie=UTF8&qid=1534691359&sr=1-1&keywords=usb+2.0+cable+a+b&refinements=p_96%3A10155283011

 

2.  do not open or modify cable in any way

 

3.  put braided shielding over the cable such as

https://www.amazon.com/Tinned-Copper-Metal-Braided-Sleeving/dp/B01BIBQ940/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534627867&sr=1-1&keywords=1%2F2+inch+tinned+copper

 

4.  heat shrink wrap over the braided shielding, leaving 3/8” of the shielding exposed at each end, such as

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071ZF5CFG/ref=twister_B0773ZGQQV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

5. lay another layer of braid over the heat shrink such that the 3/8 inches of braided shielding are touching at the ends.

 

6. Cover cable with Techflex such as

https://www.amazon.com/Techflex-Flexo-Clean-Braided-Sleeve/dp/B004SQZM4Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1534691868&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=techflex&psc=1&smid=A29KQN8I4JU5BK

 

7. attach techflex  with 3 inches of shrinkwrap at each end.

 

End result is a double shield (with 3/8" connection at ends).

 

 

NOTE: I still have not got a response if below cable pretty much accomplishes the same thing, since it says it has a double shield and is connected at ends?  One thing i do note that is different though is that this cable, besides being connected at ends is also connected to the outside connector and there is not shrink between the two shields...  The fact that the jssg360 cable is connected at the ends, i am not sure what the heat shrink between the two shields is supposed to accomplish?    

https://www.computercablestore.com/usb-30-superspeed-cable-a-to-b-mm-6ft

 

Networx™ USB 3.0 cables are double-shielded with a dual foil and braid. The connector is surrounded by a metal shield and the cable braid is also soldered to the connector to create an end-to-end full shielding solution guaranteeing a noise-free connection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[beerandmusic]

I just found that this jssg thing has been around for about 8 months now,

 

Reportedly the original jssg idea (single wire vs matured double insulator now used in jssg360) was "hijacked" and used by Ghent audio in China.

 

There is also a lot of speculation around other forums as to it's worthiness, but I still believe it has some impact based solely on Jud's recommendation where he ditched a $135 cable he used for many years, in favor of this less than $20 cable.  But i also know Jud uses an older DAC without galvanic isolation, and not sure it would have the same impact on newer dacs with galvanic isolation.  Rob Watts (chord engineer) for one, suggested that the jssg360 would have no impact.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-63

 

 

Either way, i am going to give it a rest, as there is still much to learn about it's effectiveness and on what gear.....I am going to stick to ethernet for now, but i do have some cables on order, and will at least try usb again sometime in near future....it's been awhile....

 

i am going to continue researching "efi jssg double shielding usb" and see what else i come up with....

 

 

[beerandmusic]

 

Highly respected Miska, suggests that in his testing that using a standard usb cable with ferrites has been more effective than  any of the fancier cables he has tried.

 

I am also going to try one of these which has 2 ferrites and is double shielded.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008VOPCGY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[Monge]

Hi beerandmusic,

It’s easy. You could try a USB cable with and without jssg360 and compare.

 

If you wan’t to try a USB cable with ferrites, Then pay attention to at which frekvencies they are effektive.

 

Kimber makes an USB cable with ferrites In both ends Kimber CU, but I haven’t tried it.

 

I once tried a standard USB with ferrit’s In both ends, but a relative inexpensive Supra USB 2.0 blew it away.

 

The Supra USB 2.0 is very good value IMO. I use the Supra USB 2.0 AS reference when testing other USB cables.

I also like the Supra cat8 as Lan cable.

As interconnects I use Supra Sword.

 

Hope you understand my english. 

Cheers Monge

[beerandmusic]

6 hours ago, Monge said:

Hi beerandmusic,

It’s easy. You could try a USB cable with and without jssg360 and compare.

 

If you wan’t to try a USB cable with ferrites, Then pay attention to at which frekvencies they are effektive.

 

Kimber makes an USB cable with ferrites In both ends Kimber CU, but I haven’t tried it.

 

I once tried a standard USB with ferrit’s In both ends, but a relative inexpensive Supra USB 2.0 blew it away.

 

The Supra USB 2.0 is very good value IMO. I use the Supra USB 2.0 AS reference when testing other USB cables.

I also like the Supra cat8 as Lan cable.

As interconnects I use Supra Sword.

 

Hope you understand my english. 

Cheers Monge

I checked, and although the supra's usb cable seems relatively inexpensive ($45), I am reluctant to spend even that much on a usb cable with so much controversy surrounding cables.  At one time, i bought a used audioquest forest for $30 (which is what i have now and last tried...but haven't tried usb again in several years), but after searching about the double shielded usb cables, i read someone using an off-the-shelf belkin double shield ($10 https://prod-www-origin.belkin.com/usb2_cables.pdf) that they say sounds better than the $50 AQ Forest.  Plus Jud said that his DIY doubleshield sounds better than his $135 cable that he has used for years, so I am somewhat sold now on the importance of shielding over any other non-disclosed magic cables.  If there can't be a concensus, along with details of why one cable electronically is better than another, i don't think i want to invest more than $20 on a cable at this point.

 

I keep going back to where most people believe that dacs recieve their bits with 100% accuracy and that the only other thing besides the bits is the reference voltage with noise, and that today, galvanic isolation should fix that.  I do believe that the only other thing that could be at play is RFI, but as my trusted source "MISKA" has said (and echoes Chord engineer Rob Watts perspective) that in all of his testing that ferrites are effective in minimizing RFI.

 

I am not 100% on anything at this point, and will continue to read, but knowing that DACS get their bits with 100% accuracy (or as Barrows has stated you would hear it in way of dropouts), that unless there is any objective or majority concensus, I am reluctant to believe that any cable offers more transparency, or is "more accurate" than a basic cable with either shielding or ferrites to miminize RFI.

 

I will add though, that the marketing of the SUPRA seems to push the concept of shielding is at it's strength, that i would likely buy a supra more than any other "fancy" cable....i just am not sure at this point if the shielding is superior to one with ferrites or a simple JSSG treatment to a standard FCC compliant cable.

 

THanks for sharing though....always appreciated.

 

My opinion can of course change, but that is my current belief, but I am open to any objective data, or any other input on usb cables.

[Summit]

56 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I checked, and although the supra's usb cable seems relatively inexpensive ($45), I am reluctant to spend even that much on a usb cable with so much controversy surrounding cables.  At one time, i bought a used audioquest forest for $30 (which is what i have now and last tried...but haven't tried usb again in several years), but after searching about the double shielded usb cables, i read someone using an off-the-shelf belkin double shield ($10 https://prod-www-origin.belkin.com/usb2_cables.pdf) that they say sounds better than the $50 AQ Forest.  Plus Jud said that his DIY doubleshield sounds better than his $135 cable that he has used for years, so I am somewhat sold now on the importance of shielding over any other non-disclosed magic cables.  If there can't be a concensus, along with details of why one cable electronically is better than another, i don't think i want to invest more than $20 on a cable at this point.

 

I keep going back to where most people believe that dacs recieve their bits with 100% accuracy and that the only other thing besides the bits is the reference voltage with noise, and that today, galvanic isolation should fix that.  I do believe that the only other thing that could be at play is RFI, but as my trusted source "MISKA" has said (and echoes Chord engineer Rob Watts perspective) that in all of his testing that ferrites are effective in minimizing RFI.

 

I am not 100% on anything at this point, and will continue to read, but knowing that DACS get their bits with 100% accuracy (or as Barrows has stated you would hear it in way of dropouts), that unless there is any objective or majority concensus, I am reluctant to believe that any cable offers more transparency, or is "more accurate" than a basic cable with either shielding or ferrites to miminize RFI.

 

I will add though, that the marketing of the SUPRA seems to push the concept of shielding is at it's strength, that i would likely buy a supra more than any other "fancy" cable....i just am not sure at this point if the shielding is superior to one with ferrites or a simple JSSG treatment to a standard FCC compliant cable.

 

THanks for sharing though....always appreciated.

 

My opinion can of course change, but that is my current belief, but I am open to any objective data, or any other input on usb cables.

 

I have one Audioquest Forest USB cable and it's hands down the worst USB cable I have ever tried. Even the USB cables that often come free then you buy a DAC sounds better IMO ?

 

All the Supra cables I have tried (LAN, IC and speaker cables) have sounded good and better than most other cables in the same price range. I don’t know about their USB cable but would be surprised if it didn’t sound good too. Many like Belkin Gold and use it in High End systems, if the price for a Supra really is too much for you.

[beerandmusic]

9 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

I have one Audioquest Forest USB cable and its hands down the worst USB cable I have ever tried. Even the USB cables that often come free then you buy a DAC sounds better IMO ?

 

All the Supra cables I have tried (LAN, IC and speaker cables) have sounded good and better than most other cables in the same price range. I don’t know about their USB cable but would be surprised if it didn’t sound good too. Many like Belkin Gold and use it in High End systems, if the price for a Supra really is too much for you.

 

I don't argue that the Forest is inferior to other cables, which is why I inferred Belkin Gold (that you suggest many people use these inexpensive Belkin Gold cables in high end systems...good to know....i wasn't aware of that), may be better...in fact, i did buy one a couple days ago.

 

And i also said that if i were to buy any "fancy" cable that the supra does sound like a deal....just that I am not sure it would be any better than a JSSG cable or a standard cable with ferrites.  Basically, i am in agreement with you.

[Summit]

12 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I don't argue that the Forest is inferior to other cables, which is why I inferred Belkin Gold (that you suggest many use in high end systems...i wasn't aware of that), may be better...in fact, i did buy one a couple days ago.

And i also said that if i were to buy any "fancy" cable that the supra does sound like a deal....just that I am not sure it would be any better than a JSSG cable or a standard cable with ferrites.  Basically, i am in agreement with you.

 

I don’t know if it will be better than a JSSG USB cable or a USB cable with ferrites. Let us know how it sound compare to the AQ Forest. If it sounds clearly better you can maybe later try JSSG or ferrites.

[beerandmusic]

43 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

I have one Audioquest Forest USB cable and it's hands down the worst USB cable I have ever tried. Even the USB cables that often come free then you buy a DAC sounds better IMO ?

 

All the Supra cables I have tried (LAN, IC and speaker cables) have sounded good and better than most other cables in the same price range. I don’t know about their USB cable but would be surprised if it didn’t sound good too. Many like Belkin Gold and use it in High End systems, if the price for a Supra really is too much for you.

 

I would also like to expand on your comment that the AQ forest (retail $50 for 1 meter) is hands down the worst cable you have tried.  I don't disagree for a minute, but what I do take away from that statement is that opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt.  I have seen many positive reviews (even amazon shows a 4.5 star rating), and i am sure they have sold hundreds of thousands of them, that many people are quite content.  Perhaps only a small percentage would consider themselves audiophile, but most "non-audiophiles" wouldn't even consider buying a $20 usb cable let alone a $50 cable....so it is a VERY limited audience with VERY high ratings.  Again, i don't disagree with you for even a fraction of a second, i am just taking what you said into a much bigger picture. 

 

I personally believe that the audio hobby in general thrives on opinions and bloated marketing, and that in reality (besides speakers and amp), you could probably get 95% of the absolute best possible stereo SQ for less than 5% of marketed price.

 

Again, i don't argue the AQ forest is "trash", and that the $10 belkin is far better.....I also don't doubt the Lmitche DIY cable or a Miska "bog standard" ferrite cable may be on par with a $45 supra.

[Summit]

12 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I would also like to expand on your comment that the AQ forest (retail $50 for 1 meter) is hands down the worst cable you have tried.  I don't disagree for a minute, but what I do take away from this is that opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt.  I have seen many positive reviews (even amazon shows a 4.5 star rating), and i am sure they have sold hundreds of thousands of them, that many people are quite content.  Perhaps only a small percentage would consider themselves audiophile, but most "non-audiophiles" wouldn't even consider buying a $20 usb cable let alone a $50 cable....so it is a VERY limited audience with VERY high ratings.  Again, i don't disagree with you for even a fraction of a second, i am just taking what you said into a much bigger picture. 

 

I personally believe that the audio hobby in general thrives on opinions and bloated marketing, and that in reality (besides speakers and amp), you could probably get 95% of the absolute best possible stereo SQ for less than 5% of marketed price.

 

Yes it’s just my opinion and you should not take them as gospel. Let me tell you why I couldn’t stand the AQ Forest. It’s dulling the sound big time and make everything sound the same and kind of boring. I rather have a generic USB cable with all its flaws instead, but understand that others may think other vice.

 

Yes I agree USB cables don’t have the same impact on sound as speakers and amp. Still make a notable change and is worth to try if the rest of the system is good.  

[beerandmusic]

5 minutes ago, Summit said:

Yes I agree USB cables don’t have the same impact on sound as speakers and amp. Still make a notable change and is worth to try if the rest of the system is good.  

 

I was curious as to your userid icon (are those speakers or what?) so i looked at your system in your profile...I see you have Polk SDA's....I have always enjoyed those (had a couple different ones), and i didn't have the the extravagant ones you have...i bet they are awesome....but what is that picture of in your user id?

[new_media]

4 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I was curious as to your userid icon (are those speakers or what?) so i looked at your system in your profile...I see you have Polk SDA's....I have always enjoyed those (had a couple different ones), and i didn't have the the extravagant ones you have...i bet they are awesome....but what is that picture of in your user id?

 

High price, low WAF.

 

http://luxurylaunches.com/gadgets/goldmund-apologue-anniversary-speaker-sells-for-more-than-half-a-million-dollars.php

[Summit]

14 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I was curious as to your userid icon (are those speakers or what?) so i looked at your system in your profile...I see you have Polk SDA's....I have always enjoyed those (had a couple different ones), and i didn't have the the extravagant ones you have...i bet they are awesome....but what is that picture of in your user id?

 

Lol Goldmund Apologue Anniversary Speaker is as much speakers as they are art IMO. I have seen them IRL and they are a piece of art. Who said speakers should look like something the cat dragged in ?

 

My Polk SDA is from 90-91 and I have had them many many years.

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

Lol Goldmund Apologue Anniversary Speaker is as much speakers as they are art IMO. I have seen them IRL and they are a piece of art. Who said speakers should look like something the cat dragged in ?

 

My Polk SDA is from 90-91 and I have had them many many years.

 

i probably would have kept my sda's, but they were just too big for the wife (lol)...but i hear you on aestetics....i think that is why i am keeping my B&W 805...they look nice on stands....they get mixed reviews like everything else, but i like the looks and sound, and the wife likes the size.
 

 

[Summit]

13 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

i probably would have kept my sda's, but they were just too big for the wife (lol)...but i hear you on aestetics....i think that is why i am keeping my B&W 805...they look nice on stands....they get mixed reviews like everything else, but i like the looks and sound, and the wife likes the size.
 

 

 

Polk was a great American manufacturer in the 80s and early 90s. Now I don’t know. Nice to hear that you have had some good old Polk BAM. My Polk SDA is very big (to big), 1,80 meter high and have 8 pieces of 6,5’ woofers and a big Slav Bass and a special type of filters.

[beerandmusic]

16 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

Polk was a great American manufacturer in the 80s and early 90s. Now I don’t know. Nice to hear that you have had some good old Polk BAM. My Polk SDA is very big (to big), 1,80 meter high and have 8 pieces of 6,5’ woofers and a big Slav Bass and a special type of filters.

 

Yea, i have been aware of the big sda's but have never seen, let alone listened to them.  I had the sda 1, 2b, and monitor 11's.  I had the 11's for the longest time back in my navy days in early 80s and had them for nearly 10 years, probably longest i have owned anything audio...everyone commented and loved them...most people those days were buying the infinitys, and my roommate had them, and we would a/b them all the time....they both had their pro's and cons...but for jazz, they killed the infinitys.

[Summit]

7 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Yea, i have been aware of the big sda's but have never seen, let alone listened to them.  I had the sda 1, 2b, and monitor 11's.  I had the 11's for the longest time back in my navy days in early 80s and had them for nearly 10 years, probably longest i have owned anything audio...everyone commented and loved them...most people those days were buying the infinitys, and my roommate had them, and we would a/b them all the time....they both had their pro's and cons...but for jazz, they killed the infinitys.

 

You have more experience in hifi gear than I thought, Respect!