semente Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 22 hours ago, duxservit said: (a) The market in the US has become small, for the type of gear you are talking about It's all going to Russia these days... Wait, Russians oligarchs live in London... Rephrase that to "It's all going to London these days"... "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
semente Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 18 hours ago, christopher3393 said: JD: I don’t want to open a whole can of worms, but you seem not to be overly concerned about getting very low distortion. For your First Watt amps you have made the point that at the low levels where most listening takes place, the distortion is very low. Yet, at high level peaks (especially with low- to medium-output power amps), distortion does rise considerably. But people like your amps. Does it have to do with the way the distortion rises, or with the spectral make-up of the distortion? NP: The characteristic I get is the result of simple FET circuits running in Class A. This means minimal or no feedback, low-order harmonic characteristic, and monotonic but pedestrian distortion numbers.That approach usually (not always) delivers the sound that I like, and apparently my taste matches up with a portion of the buying public. The only magic involved takes place in the neural networks between our ears. What happens there is still poorly understood and varies between individuals. Whatever the deal is, ultra low distortion doesn’t seem to have much to do with it. The man is not interested in high-fidelity, he's just having fun designing simple circuits that sound pleasant to him around different transistors. But he knows his stuff, and has made his designs available to the DIY community. I don't know much about the Pass brand, who owns it or makes profit from him, but NP is entitled to earn his share as much as the next guy so I hope it's him. The Zu case is more interesting because they are selling rubbish with apparently some success. Schiit are another example of wonderful marketeering. I won't discuss the quality of their designs or the reliability of their products. "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
RickyV Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 What about Bricasti that is good, right? ? Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator. Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution. Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to comment
Richard Dale Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, semente said: The man is not interested in high-fidelity, he's just having fun designing simple circuits that sound pleasant to him around different transistors. WTF!! Saying that Nelson Pass isn't interested in high-fidelity, is a bit like saying Bob Dylan isn't interested in song writing or similar. System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
semente Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Richard Dale said: WTF!! Saying that Nelson Pass isn't interested in high-fidelity, is a bit like saying Bob Dylan isn't interested in song writing or similar. He says so himself, in the interview quoted above... "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Popular Post Richard Dale Posted August 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, semente said: He says so himself, in the interview quoted above... I've read the full interview and it is certainly worth a read. Here is a link, and I couldn't see one earlier in this thread: http://www.audioxpress.com/article/Interview-with-Nelson-Pass But at no point can I find him saying something like 'he is not interested in high fidelity'. When he says 'Whatever the deal is, ultra low distortion doesn’t seem to have much to do with it.', I take 'Whatever the deal is..' to mean 'Whatever high fidelity is as perceived by the human brain..'. Summit, 4est and christopher3393 2 1 System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
semente Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Richard Dale said: I've read the full interview and it is certainly worth a read. Here is a link, and I couldn't see one earlier in this thread: http://www.audioxpress.com/article/Interview-with-Nelson-Pass But at no point can I find him saying something like 'he is not interested in high fidelity'. When he says 'Whatever the deal is, ultra low distortion doesn’t seem to have much to do with it.', I take 'Whatever the deal is..' to mean 'Whatever high fidelity is as perceived by the human brain..'. High-fidelity is the accurate reproduction of the recorded signal. If you add perception and taste you are no longer talking about high-fidelity. I don't know what to call it though: "tailored-sound", "post-production"? esldude 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Richard Dale Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, semente said: High-fidelity is the accurate reproduction of the recorded signal. If you add perception and taste you are no longer talking about high-fidelity. I don't know what to call it though: "tailored-sound", "post-production"? If you asked Nelson Pass the question 'Do you consider the high power commercial amplifiers sold by Pass Labs, to be"'High Fidelity' designs?'"I'm sure he would answer yes. The First Watt designs are more experimental and lower power, but I would be very surprised if he didn't describe them as High Fidelity too. Quite possibly your idea of what is meant by 'High Fidelity' differs from Nelson Pass's definition, but that doesn't mean that you can just say that he is not interested in High Fidelity. System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted August 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, semente said: High-fidelity is the accurate reproduction of the recorded signal. If you add perception and taste you are no longer talking about high-fidelity. I don't know what to call it though: "tailored-sound", "post-production"? My-fi. esldude, lucretius and semente 2 1 Link to comment
Summit Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 It must be some kind of record. To get 3 OT votes on an OP. AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted August 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Summit said: It must be some kind of record. To get 3 OT votes on an OP. I didn't think an OP could be OT... Summit and AudioDoctor 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 A relevant passage from another Nelson Pass interview: JS:I’ve noticed more solid-state amp designers seem to be trying very hard to take distortion to the vanishing point. Some of these products can sound a bit sterile, however. Can you explain your philosophy about measurements, and discuss the role played by low-order harmonics in the Point 8 Series? NP: I like measurements, and I use them all the time, but they don’t get the last word. Generally, there isn’t much conflict between what we measure and what we like to hear. I’ve spent decades working to correlate good sound with measurements, and we have a reasonable picture of what works, and you see that in our products. These represent our own listening tastes, and appeal to a large enough portion of customers to keep us in business. With low-order harmonics, there is agreement that low-order distortion is much less offensive than high-order harmonics and IM (Inter modulated) sidebands, and this drove the development of the Threshold 800A back in 1975, where the nature of the distortion was considered as important as the size of the “single number.” By 1991 when I started Pass Labs, I began to focus more on the specific character of second and third harmonics, and slowly settled into a character where negative-phase second harmonic dominates at low levels, segueing into symmetric third harmonic at higher power. The second fosters an illusion of expanded space and localization, and the third seems to improve dynamics. The distortion of these amplifiers is still quite low, but they are not sterile. JS: You’ve been creating amps for decades. What have you come to believe are the most critical factors in getting great sound out of a product? NP: It helps a lot if you understand the problems and solutions technically, but in the end it comes down to a lot of work, in which critical listening plays an important part. I have lots of prototypes that measure well and whose ingenuity is a source of some pride but which don’t sound special. And then there is the occasional piece which has conventionally abysmal measurements, but which many people really like – single-ended tubes and Static Induction Transistors (SIT) amplifiers being good examples. I always keep in mind that we are in the entertainment business. For the whole interview: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/02/21/an-interview-with-hifi-legend-nelson-pass/ Summit 1 Link to comment
Blake Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 To the original question, yes, American HiFi is bad. Really, really bad. $$*&ing HATE MuRICAN HIFI!!!! Right now, the best hifi gear is from Guangdong Province in China. More specifically, in the City of Guangzhou. They also make great Swiss watches in Guangzhou. Best. Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
Ben-M Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 On 8/19/2018 at 7:16 AM, AudioDoctor said: I was going to say Zu Audio, but we both know they suck... Then, I considered McIntosh and laughed at myself. Peachtree? Class D garbage! Ascend Acoustics. Who? Maggies? Nah. Audio Research? Aren't they Canadian? Balanced Audio Tech? Communist tubes! Cary Audio? Who? Grado? SUCK! Joseph Audio? Crap! Manley? More like Girley amirite? PS Audio? PS You're garbage! Rogue Audio? More Class D garbage! VPI? Turntables suck! etc... Come on?! Nobody else quoted this?? This was actually pretty funny. PS you're garbage!! PS, I don't think GUTB ever adds anything of value and all these threads are totally pointless wastes of server storage. But at least it let's us convene on one(hundreds of) useless topic(s) together~? AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
semente Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I didn't think an OP could be OT... OT = Out of Touch? AudioDoctor 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Summit Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I didn't think an OP could be OT... It was my point, but GUTB somehow managed to that ? AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
juanitox Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Quote American Hi-Fi: Inferior? i will ask 2018 HIFI : Inferior ? PC audio /Roon + HQPLAYER / HOLO Spring 2 / / DIY AD1 SET tube amp / DIY Altec 2 way horn Speaker Link to comment
GUTB Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 Well, obviously, just like the truth, the off-topic button is just a popularity contest. wgscott and Ralf11 1 1 Link to comment
Summit Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 …or a down vote. AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
Blake Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Can I "down vote" my own post? AudioDoctor 1 Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
semente Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Summit said: …or a down vote. This is obviously fake news. AudioDoctor 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Jud Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ben-M said: PS, I don't think GUTB ever adds anything of value and all these threads are totally pointless wastes of server storage. But at least it let's us convene on one(hundreds of) useless topic(s) together~? Why convene on even one? What if someone started a thread and no one else came? AudioDoctor 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 AR: In 2011, have we reached a point where amplifiers won't be getting much better or does amplifier design have a long way to go towards perfection? NP: There is progress to be made, and the necessary tools are already on the table. From a strictly objective standpoint we are largely finished - adding more zeros to the usual distortion numbers isn't going to improve the sound very much. What remains is the need for clearer insight into subjective effects. Our brains are very much different from test equipment and are easily fooled by some phenomena and very sharp at discriminating others. Reading the literature in cognitive psychology, it's clear that we don't know very much about musical perception. As a practical result we have to emphasize critical listening with potential designs. The necessary tools for this are experienced ears and perseverance. https://audiophilereview.com/amps/nelson-pass-interview.html Link to comment
kumakuma Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, GUTB said: Well, obviously, just like the truth, the off-topic button is just a popularity contest. Both you and Rudy appear confused about what "truth" is. semente 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Ben-M said: Come on?! Nobody else quoted this?? This was actually pretty funny. PS you're garbage!! PS, I don't think GUTB ever adds anything of value and all these threads are totally pointless wastes of server storage. But at least it let's us convene on one(hundreds of) useless topic(s) together~? Thank you, I was surprised as well. Maybe I am not as funny as I think I am, or you and I are the smart people here that get my humor... No electron left behind. Link to comment
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