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American Hi-Fi: Inferior?


GUTB

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22 hours ago, duxservit said:

(a) The market in the US has become small, for the type of gear you are talking about

It's all going to Russia these days... Wait, Russians oligarchs live in London... Rephrase that to "It's all going to London these days"...

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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18 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

 

081815-Pass_funny-600.thumb.jpg.dd5c5b1de107124f69c182fc33da4786.jpg

 

JD: I don’t want to open a whole can of worms, but you seem not to be overly concerned about getting very low distortion. For your First Watt amps you have made the point that at the low levels where most listening takes place, the distortion is very low. Yet, at high level peaks (especially with low- to medium-output power amps), distortion does rise considerably. But people like your amps. Does it have to do with the way the distortion rises, or with the spectral make-up of the distortion?

 

NP: The characteristic I get is the result of simple FET circuits running in Class A. This means minimal or no feedback, low-order harmonic characteristic, and monotonic but pedestrian distortion numbers.That approach usually (not always) delivers the sound that I like, and apparently my taste matches up with a portion of the buying public. The only magic involved takes place in the neural networks between our ears. What happens there is still poorly understood and varies between individuals. Whatever the deal is, ultra low distortion doesn’t seem to have much to do with it.

 

The man is not interested in high-fidelity, he's just having fun designing simple circuits that sound pleasant to him around different transistors.

But he knows his stuff, and has made his designs available to the DIY community. I don't know much about the Pass brand, who owns it or makes profit from him, but NP is entitled to earn his share as much as the next guy so I hope it's him.

 

The Zu case is more interesting because they are selling rubbish with apparently some success.

 

Schiit are another example of wonderful marketeering. I won't discuss the quality of their designs or the reliability of their products.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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What about Bricasti that is good, right? ?

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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29 minutes ago, semente said:

 

The man is not interested in high-fidelity, he's just having fun designing simple circuits that sound pleasant to him around different transistors.

 

WTF!! Saying that Nelson Pass isn't interested in high-fidelity, is a bit like saying Bob Dylan isn't interested in song writing or similar.

System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs

System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs

System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs

 

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15 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

WTF!! Saying that Nelson Pass isn't interested in high-fidelity, is a bit like saying Bob Dylan isn't interested in song writing or similar.

He says so himself, in the interview quoted above...

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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6 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

I've read the full interview and it is certainly worth a read. Here is a link, and I couldn't see one earlier in this thread:

 

http://www.audioxpress.com/article/Interview-with-Nelson-Pass

 

But at no point can I find him saying something like 'he is not interested in high fidelity'. When he says 'Whatever the deal is, ultra low distortion doesn’t seem to have much to do with it.', I take 'Whatever the deal is..' to mean 'Whatever high fidelity is as perceived by the human brain..'. 

 

High-fidelity is the accurate reproduction of the recorded signal. If you add perception and taste you are no longer talking about high-fidelity.

I don't know what to call it though: "tailored-sound", "post-production"?

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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23 minutes ago, semente said:

 

High-fidelity is the accurate reproduction of the recorded signal. If you add perception and taste you are no longer talking about high-fidelity.

I don't know what to call it though: "tailored-sound", "post-production"?

If you asked Nelson Pass the question 'Do you consider the high power commercial amplifiers sold by Pass Labs, to be"'High Fidelity' designs?'"I'm sure he would answer yes. The First Watt designs are more experimental and lower power, but I would be very surprised if he didn't describe them as High Fidelity too.

 

Quite possibly your idea of what is meant by 'High Fidelity' differs from Nelson Pass's definition, but that doesn't mean that you can just say that he is not interested in High Fidelity.

System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs

System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs

System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs

 

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A relevant passage from another Nelson Pass interview:

 

JS:I’ve noticed more solid-state amp designers seem to be trying very hard to take distortion to the vanishing point. Some of these products can sound a bit sterile, however. Can you explain your philosophy about measurements, and discuss the role played by low-order harmonics in the Point 8 Series?

 

 NPI like measurements, and I use them all the time, but they don’t get the last word.  Generally, there isn’t much conflict between what we measure and what we like to hear. I’ve spent decades working to correlate good sound with measurements, and we have a reasonable picture of what works, and you see that in our products. These represent our own listening tastes, and appeal to a large enough portion of customers to keep us in business.

 

With low-order harmonics, there is agreement that low-order distortion is much less offensive than high-order harmonics and IM (Inter modulated) sidebands, and this drove the development of the Threshold 800A back in 1975, where the nature of the distortion was considered as important as the size of the “single number.”

 

By 1991 when I started Pass Labs, I began to focus more on the specific character of second and third harmonics, and slowly settled into a character where negative-phase second harmonic dominates at low levels, segueing into symmetric third harmonic at higher power. The second fosters an illusion of expanded space and localization, and the third seems to improve dynamics. The distortion of these amplifiers is still quite low, but they are not sterile.

 

 JS: You’ve been creating amps for decades. What have you come to believe are the most critical factors in getting great sound out of a product?

 

NPIt helps a lot if you understand the problems and solutions technically, but in the end it comes down to a lot of work, in which critical listening plays an important part. I have lots of prototypes that measure well and whose ingenuity is a source of some pride but which don’t sound special. And then there is the occasional piece which has conventionally abysmal measurements, but which many people really like – single-ended tubes and Static Induction Transistors (SIT) amplifiers being good examples.

 

I always keep in mind that we are in the entertainment business.

 

For the whole interview: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/02/21/an-interview-with-hifi-legend-nelson-pass/

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To the original question, yes, American HiFi is bad.  Really, really bad.  $$*&ing HATE MuRICAN HIFI!!!!  

 

Right now, the best hifi gear is from Guangdong Province in China.  More specifically, in the City of Guangzhou.  They also make great Swiss watches in Guangzhou.

 

Best.

 

 

Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs  

Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC 

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On 8/19/2018 at 7:16 AM, AudioDoctor said:

I was going to say Zu Audio, but we both know they suck...

 

Then, I considered McIntosh and laughed at myself.

 

Peachtree?  Class D garbage!
 

Ascend Acoustics.  Who?

 

Maggies?  Nah.

 

Audio Research?  Aren't they Canadian?

 

Balanced Audio Tech?  Communist tubes!

 

Cary Audio?  Who?

 

Grado?  SUCK!

 

Joseph Audio?  Crap!

 

Manley?  More like Girley amirite?

 

PS Audio?  PS You're garbage!

 

Rogue Audio?  More Class D garbage!

 

VPI?  Turntables suck!

 

etc...

Come on?! Nobody else quoted this?? This was actually pretty funny. 

 

PS you're garbage!!

 

PS, I don't think GUTB ever adds anything of value and all these threads are totally pointless wastes of server storage. But at least it let's us convene on one(hundreds of) useless topic(s) together~?

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14 minutes ago, Ben-M said:

PS, I don't think GUTB ever adds anything of value and all these threads are totally pointless wastes of server storage. But at least it let's us convene on one(hundreds of) useless topic(s) together~?

 

Why convene on even one? What if someone started a thread and no one else came? 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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AR: In 2011, have we reached a point where amplifiers won't be getting much better or does amplifier design have a long way to go towards perfection?

 

NP: There is progress to be made, and the necessary tools are already on the table.  From a strictly objective standpoint we are largely finished - adding more zeros to the usual distortion numbers isn't going to improve the sound very much.

 

What remains is the need for clearer insight into subjective effects.  Our brains are very much different from test equipment and are easily fooled by some phenomena and very sharp at discriminating others.  Reading the literature in cognitive psychology, it's clear that we don't know very much about musical perception.

 

As a practical result we have to emphasize critical listening with potential designs.  The necessary tools for this are experienced ears and perseverance.

 

https://audiophilereview.com/amps/nelson-pass-interview.html

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3 hours ago, GUTB said:

Well, obviously, just like the truth, the off-topic button is just a popularity contest.

 

Both you and Rudy appear confused about what "truth" is.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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4 hours ago, Ben-M said:

Come on?! Nobody else quoted this?? This was actually pretty funny. 

 

PS you're garbage!!

 

PS, I don't think GUTB ever adds anything of value and all these threads are totally pointless wastes of server storage. But at least it let's us convene on one(hundreds of) useless topic(s) together~?

 

Thank you, I was surprised as well.  Maybe I am not as funny as I think I am, or you and I are the smart people here that get my humor...

No electron left behind.

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