Article: Kii THREE Loudspeaker Review

[mitchco]

View full article

[Jud]

On a little bit of a side note: Did The Gramophone used to be located in downtown Edmonton in or near the Manulife building?  The name sounds awfully familiar, and I believe I may have stopped in there for classical CDs and entertaining music and audio discussions when I was doing a lot of work in Edmonton at the end of the 80s through the early 90s.

[Pure Vinyl Club]

 Mitch, thank you for a good review!
I see in photo Dutch & Dutch 8c stand on the floor ... When are you going to make and publish a review of these direct competitors Kii Three?
 This is a practical question, since I am currently using Kii Three in one of my systems and very interested in listening to Dutch & Dutch 8c, but there is no such possibility. Very interested in direct comparison.
 

[loop7]

After reading your review and John Darko's a few months ago, I am SO eager to hear the Kii Three.

[Danny Kaey]

nice review Mitch! I think that high-end audio is facing an ever increasing dilemma... move forward with technology or fall way, way behind... the issue we have is driven by fundamentals of our fractured industry where on one end we have something like Kii, and on the other hand, royal Japanese paper cone 6" full-range speakers; you can't possibly sell these side by side with a straight face. Thus, what's a manufacturer to do: design for the old school guard and lose marketing ability to the new generation, or design for the new generation and leave the old guard behind. 

[baconbrain]

Excellent review and thx for sharing the sample list!

[tboooe]

I am curious if the sound can be further improved using DSP?  The  graphs showing the in room response versus the ideal still shows some pretty big dips and peaks.  Since you already have the capability and obvious expertise, why not apply some modest DSP to further improve things?

[input username here]

Thanks for the great review.  I wonder how much closer the BXT system would get you to your big subs' bass performance...it'll be interesting too to hear what you think of these vs. the D&Ds, they are clear competitors in a category of, really, only two speakers at the moment (not having seen the D&D in person, I was really shocked to see how BIG they are--and I thought the Kii's were pretty large monitor speakers!). 

 

Also, love that blue color!  The only regret I have with buying my own my Kii's is that I went with the rather dull, stock gray color.  Every time I see a pair in an adventurous colorway, I get (very) jealous. 

[mitchco]

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

I am curious if the sound can be further improved using DSP?  The  graphs showing the in room response versus the ideal still shows some pretty big dips and peaks.  Since you already have the capability and obvious expertise, why not apply some modest DSP to further improve things?

 

Hi tboooe, yes, I could have used DSP below 500 Hz to smooth out the room modes/standing waves. I have (very) unfavourable room ratios - only thing worse is a cube shaped room. This is a fun room mode calculator to play with, in case you have not seen it: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc  I was just happy that I could achieve a nice neutral sound, as most speakers have way too much high frequency energy output with no way to tame it...

 

However, having played extensively with DSP, I find that if one can keep the dips and peaks at ± 5 dB, below 500 Hz, it is not too noticeable, which is what I was able to achieve with the THREE's on-board boundary eq and contour/tone controls.  I expect the response will be better for most folks due to better room ratios. The purpose of the review is to show what the speakers are capable of, without any outside assistance.

[MikeJazz]

Thanks for the excelente analysis.

I was so excited to experience the kii that  recently went to the local dealer to have a listen.

This must have been one of the most disappoint experiences I had. Maybe in part due to the previous hype surrounding the kii.

 

I hear some of the well know qualities: spacious sound, dinamic, revealing, time coherent, yes.

 

But I also heard a speaker with some issues on presenting tone. Tone was not rich, voices did not sound natural, but a bit harsh. On the end it was a bit disappointing hear that the speaker was lacking on the tone department. Tone is very important to get me involved in the music. 

 

The quest to find a replacement for my QUAD ESL 2805 continues...

[mitchco]

@Jud Don't know... You could go to their site and contact Bryan...

 

@Pure Vinyl Club Thanks.  Probably in 30 days for the D&D 8c review. I am contemplating how to do a fair comparison after that...

 

@loop7 and @baconbrain Thanks! @input username here Thanks! Yes, the blue is nice. It would be interesting to hear the BXT extension module...  But it is surprising to hear how much and how low the THREE's go!

[mitchco]

47 minutes ago, MikeJazz said:

Thanks for the excelente analysis.

I was so excited to experience the kii that  recently went to the local dealer to have a listen.

This must have been one of the most disappoint experiences I had. Maybe in part due to the previous hype surrounding the kii.

 

I hear some of the well know qualities: spacious sound, dinamic, revealing, time coherent, yes.

 

But I also heard a speaker with some issues on presenting tone. Tone was not rich, voices did not sound natural, but a bit harsh. On the end it was a bit disappointing hear that the speaker was lacking on the tone department. Tone is very important to get me involved in the music. 

 

The quest to find a replacement for my QUAD ESL 2805 continues...

 

Mike, I understand. It could be that the Kii's were not set up properly, as it does make quite a big difference. Not only setting up the boundary eq, but taming the high frequency energy output. Note I had to dial in a -4 dB shelf at 3 kHz for the tone to sound neutral as per the Harman's research. That's a lot of high frequency reduction! Given that you said the voices sound a bit harsh is a tell take sign to me that the speakers were not set up properly. With the -4 dB shelf at 3 kHz, they never sounded harsh to my ears, no matter how loud I turned them up or what the music content was.

 

Those QUAD ESL 2805 speakers are very nice. Looking over at Stereophiles measurements, I can see that they already have the built-in downward tilt in the frequency response. In fact, looking at JA's measurements, it is almost exactly a -10 dB tilt from 20 Hz to 20 kHz that the folks from Harman (and I) suggest as neutral sound reproduction with good timbre (i.e. tone quality). Good choice man! I hope you get a 2nd chance to listen again, but able to dial down the treble energy as "out of the box", as with virtually every speaker I demo, there is way to much high frequency output, which for sure skews the tonal balance. Especially with the Kii's, as they are very uncoloured plus having too much high frequency energy output would not be a pleasant listening experience.

[asdf1000]

9 hours ago, mitchco said:

 

View full article

 

 

Best review of these speakers I've seen. Lots of technical stuff for those interested but good non-technical language for those that prefer that too.

 

 

 

[ednaz]

Great review! First speaker review I've read in a long time that's going to make me seek out the speakers to listen to them. My favorite speakers have a similar sound radiation pattern and philosophy - Gradient Revolutions. Cardioid tweeter and midrange, open hung woofer. I got them during a long term assignment to Singapore, where my apartment was a total nightmare of curved walls, marble or teak floors, walls of windows. I tried several speakers and they were all horrible... but the Revolutions sounded excellent. And, sounded excellent almost without paying attention to placement. (almost...) The sweet spot was also really big. In the traditional location, yeah, it was perfectly balanced left to right etc, but off axis, it was pretty much like sitting in the side sections of a concert hall versus row H center. Over and over again, over the years, I've had people explore that, without prompting... wanting to see what they sounded like HERE, and THERE, and OVER THERE.

 

When I came back to the US, these speakers performed beautifully no matter how imperfect the listening room. Yeah, they're light on bass, and don't reach very low. A subwoofer fixes that. I've gone through a few different speakers in the 15 years for other rooms in my home and studios, and I've not found many with the imaging and clarity and lack of fussiness of the Revolutions. I've got GoldenEar speakers for my home AV system, and they have some similar characteristics - an enormous amount of the energy that the speakers put out comes from side radiators, which (for me, YMMV) makes the sweet spot bigger, makes the sound stage rounder.

 

My studio system is all compromises, particularly the speakers. Your review makes me think these may work.

[Kelly]

I am glad that you finally got to review these!I have had mine for about a year and have absolutely no complaints. 

 

@MikeJazz I am a bit surprised by the lack of "tone" you describe. As Mitchco suggested, perhaps something was off in the setup. One of my revelations with the Kiis has been listening to is older, but excellent recordings of vocals like Sam Cooke or Nina Simone. The depth of texture and dimension that was captured in some of those old recordings is something I had never appreciated before I got the Kiis, even with high end headphone setups. 

[mitchco]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Best review of these speakers I've seen. Lots of technical stuff for those interested but good non-technical language for those that prefer that too.

 

 

 

 

Thank you! That's the balance I am trying to achieve with speaker and headphone reviews here on CA.

[mitchco]

10 hours ago, Danny Kaey said:

nice review Mitch! I think that high-end audio is facing an ever increasing dilemma... move forward with technology or fall way, way behind... the issue we have is driven by fundamentals of our fractured industry where on one end we have something like Kii, and on the other hand, royal Japanese paper cone 6" full-range speakers; you can't possibly sell these side by side with a straight face. Thus, what's a manufacturer to do: design for the old school guard and lose marketing ability to the new generation, or design for the new generation and leave the old guard behind. 

 

Thanks Danny! Yes, this is the conundrum isn't it... I am an early tech adopter for using DSP to control the frequency and timing response of speakers using customer FIR filter designers. Some FIR designers are better than others, but the top ones are very good. Now we are seeing some of that capability come with the loudspeaker itself. Plus new capabilities like controlled directivity with some level of room correction (e.g. SBIR control).  These new capabilities sound and measure better than older designs... Not saying older designs are losing their appeal, but it will be interesting to see what manufacturers come up with design wise and what audio consumers gravitate to... 

[firedog]

5 hours ago, input username here said:

Thanks for the great review.  I wonder how much closer the BXT system would get you to your big subs' bass performance...it'll be interesting too to hear what you think of these vs. the D&Ds, they are clear competitors in a category of, really, only two speakers at the moment (not having seen the D&D in person, I was really shocked to see how BIG they are--and I thought the Kii's were pretty large monitor speakers!). 

 

Also, love that blue color!  The only regret I have with buying my own my Kii's is that I went with the rather dull, stock gray color.  Every time I see a pair in an adventurous colorway, I get (very) jealous. 

 

I got the stock gray, too. I actually think it looks nice and it matches my decor. I thought about ordering a cobalt blue color, but also thought that if I ever want to sell them the standard color will be much easier to sell. 
The D&D so far have gotten pretty much the same reaction as the Kiis. Some people think they sound a bit warmer and have a bit more bass "punch" and therefore prefer them. It will be interesting to see Mitchco's measurements and subjective reaction. 

[firedog]

5 hours ago, MikeJazz said:

But I also heard a speaker with some issues on presenting tone. Tone was not rich, voices did not sound natural, but a bit harsh. On the end it was a bit disappointing hear that the speaker was lacking on the tone department. Tone is very important to get me involved in the music. 

Not my experience. But everyone hears differently. It's clear the Kiis aren't for everyone. I'm sure you are not the only one that won't like them. I've heard some very expensive, well regarded speakers that I didn't like at all. 

[Cary]

Wow, just wow.  An amazingly explanatory review with citations to additional information and a clear understanding of the reviewer’s beliefs and preferences. All reviews should strive to meet this level.  Thank you. 

[input username here]

6 hours ago, mitchco said:

It would be interesting to hear the BXT extension module...  But it is surprising to hear how much and how low the THREE's go!

 

... I've (almost) never wanted for more bass with my Kii's.  But then, one never knows what they're missing until they get their next shiny object.

[input username here]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Not my experience. But everyone hears differently. It's clear the Kiis aren't for everyone. I'm sure you are not the only one that won't like them. I've heard some very expensive, well regarded speakers that I didn't like at all. 

 

I'm certainly not knocking your tastes--or anyone else's.  But, personally, I really love some of the wilder colors I've seen floating around the internet (maybe someone should start a company doing vinyl wraps for speakers like people are doing on cars these days). 

 

That said, you're probably right: resale will likely be higher in gray than with a more "quirky" color.

[Gnnett]

Well I for one will never buy these speakers. I always apply the Rolls Royce principle. If I have to ask the price, I obviously cannot afford it. Beggars belief a manufacturer has the arrogance to not pay potential purchasers the common courtesy of giving a price.  Shame really, interesting review.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Gnnett said:

Well I for one will never buy these speakers. I always apply the Rolls Royce principle. If I have to ask the price, I obviously cannot afford it. Beggars belief a manufacturer has the arrogance to not pay potential purchasers the common courtesy of giving a price.  Shame really, interesting review.

Huh? What are you talking about?

[atletico]

6 hours ago, input username here said:

 

... I've (almost) never wanted for more bass with my Kii's.  But then, one never knows what they're missing until they get their next shiny object.

An execelent and informative review.

After living with the Kii Three speakers for over a year,  these speakers never stop and impress me the way they handle all kind of music from old prog rock, jazz, blues to modern electronic music in my living room. I really don't miss anything from the overall soundstage but I will soon have an audition of the BXT modules and after the first reports I have heard  the BXT modules do something positive with the overall soundstage, not only in the lower bass area. And the Kii Three/BXT system will also work extremely well even in smaller rooms.