Innuos MKII - USB Skipping with Roon

[BigAlMc]

28 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

(text is inside the quote of my text in the previous post)

 

@BigAlMc, so Alan, is that what is happening to you too ?

 

Can anyone determine what the common denominator is between Radio & Shuffle mode ? Possibly it is related to gapless or something. Or what about a variable which just overflows because of the longer term playback (I suppose Shuffle never stops, like Radio).

 

And/but, how does the quality of a USB cable relate to this ? ... weird thing.

 

Yes, it'll be playing fine and then it starts displaying the next track for under a second and then skipping onto the next. Each displayed for less than a second before moving onto the next. No sound plays as its skipping before the track starts. 

 

It normally does it in radio mode when I'm not listening and I only notice when I go to play music, select an album and it skips thru all the album tracks. 

 

I power cycle the DAC and that resolves it until the next time. 

[rickca]

Do either of you have another DAC, just for troubleshooting?  Does it only happen with the PS Audio DS Jr?

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

Can anyone determine what the common denominator is between Radio & Shuffle mode ? Possibly it is related to gapless or something. Or what about a variable which just overflows because of the longer term playback (I suppose Shuffle never stops, like Radio).

 

And/but, how does the quality of a USB cable relate to this ? ... weird thing.

Hi Peter,

No gapless (classical) songs in my test

 

No skipping in Radio or Shuffle with basic printer cable. Only Lush

[FrankMA]

3 minutes ago, rickca said:

Do either of you have another DAC, just for troubleshooting?  Does it only happen with the PS Audio DS Jr?

Unfortunately I don't have another DAC. I believe Al has the full DS (not Jr)

[BigAlMc]

16 minutes ago, rickca said:

Do either of you have another DAC, just for troubleshooting?  Does it only happen with the PS Audio DS Jr?

 

I think it's specific to Zenith + Lush + Directsream. 

 

I have an Oppo 205 on hand (used for movies rather than DAC duties). Can't recall if this accepts USB in but if so I guess I could try testing it. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, FrankMA said:

No gapless (classical) songs in my test

 

Thank you, Frank.

With the "gapless" I was referring to Radio being gapless always (but no idea how that would work out for mere technical merits we're discussing here) while Shuffle actually can not be gapless while Roon might try anyway (and then goes odd because something doesn't respond fast enough).

 

And please, I am out of clues anyway, but it may give you or Alan ideas.

Better wait until Wednesday when Alan should have his Lush^2es. 

[FrankMA]

42 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

With the "gapless" I was referring to Radio being gapless always (but no idea how that would work out for mere technical merits we're discussing here) while Shuffle actually can not be gapless while Roon might try anyway (and then goes odd because something doesn't respond fast enough).

Sorry Peter - I misunderstood

 

I do have a Oppo BDP-105. I'll see if it has a USB B input and test

[FrankMA]

16 hours ago, FrankMA said:

I do have a Oppo BDP-105. I'll see if it has a USB B input and test

 

Tried but since the Oppo is not a Roon endpoint, It is not available in Roon as a zone (unless I am missing something)

[PeterSt]

3 hours ago, FrankMA said:

Tried but

 

No worries. Lush^2es for Alan definitely go out today (due tomorrow).

[BigAlMc]

3 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

No worries. Lush^2es for Alan definitely go out today (due tomorrow).

 

Thanks Peter, 

 

Meantime I put on a very long play list last night to see if skipping starts despite radio being off. 

 

Tomorrow I'm working from home so I can hopefully test both with a different cable (Curious cable) and then with the Lush^2 when it arrives ?

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Thanks Peter, 

 

Meantime I put on a very long play list last night to see if skipping starts despite radio being off. 

 

Tomorrow I'm working from home so I can hopefully test both with a different cable (Curious cable) and then with the Lush^2 when it arrives ?

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

Faithfully still playing, 24 hour later. 

 

Killed playlist. Enabled Radio and playing overnight. 

 

If its skipped overnight that points towards Roon Radio being a factor in my book. 

 

Cable fun tomz! 

[yellowblue]

Fwiw no skipping with enabled Roon Radio with the Lush^2. Zenith SE > Lush 2 > txUSBultra > Lush 2> Chord Dave.

Will tell in another forum more about the sound after some burn in. But it´s already clear that I will sell my Curious cables.

[FrankMA]

On 8/21/2018 at 4:28 PM, BigAlMc said:

Faithfully still playing, 24 hour later. 

While waiting for this to resolve with the Lush, have been playing via LAN direct to the DAC with a Wireworld cable. No skipping but I am getting regular dropouts. 

 

Less reliable so far than my MAC over a spaghetti network of wires and switches......

[FrankMA]

Something new happened yesterday. I have been running via Ethernet while I wait for the Lush discussion to play itself out. 

 

Was streaming ok most of the day until the signal starting dropping out. Audio>Dropout>Audio>Dropout>etc

 

Had to reboot the DAC/MKII to fix

 

Has anyone experienced this? Could I have a lemon? This unit is far less reliable than my MAC

[BigAlMc]

5 hours ago, FrankMA said:

I have been running via Ethernet while I wait for the Lush discussion to play itself out. 

 

Hi Frank,

 

I'm not sure this will help much. In fact I'm fairly sure it won't! But wrt whether the Lush^2 stops the skipping. I've not had any skipping for the last three days with the Lush^2 in my system. But here's the spoiler. It hadn't skipped for the few days prior to my replacing the Lush with the Lush^2. So not exactly definitive.

 

On top of that as per the listening impressions I just posted on the Lush^2 thread I've stumbled upon a different combination that's really sounding great. SE>Curious cable>TX-USBUltra>Lush^2>DAC.

 

Given this replaces the SE>Lush original>TX-USBUltra>Sablon>DAC I think too many variables have changed for you to accurately deduce anything from my setup and skipping or lackthereof.

 

Given your other issues, dropouts etc - I'd talk to Innuos but dropouts can be anything in the chain. Network, router etc. I certainly had no issues with dropouts on ethernet with my Innuos & Direcstream.

 

Sorry this is proving such a pain for you mate.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[FrankMA]

Hi Al - very true.  I am going to run the dropout issue by Innuos.

 

Not a problem.  Will sort itself out.  Thanks for your help

 

I know for sure I still have a problem with the Lush and skipping forcing me to use the Ethernet connection.

 

Not sure it could be the network/router since this is a direct connection to the DAC: MKII>Wireworld Ethernet>DAC 

[FrankMA]

On 9/2/2018 at 1:20 PM, BigAlMc said:

I'm not sure this will help much. In fact I'm fairly sure it won't! But wrt whether the Lush^2 stops the skipping. I've not had any skipping for the last three days with the Lush^2 in my system. But here's the spoiler. It hadn't skipped for the few days prior to my replacing the Lush with the Lush^2. So not exactly definitive.

 

Hi Alan

Been running the LMS/iPeng9 player combo via the Lush for 3 days with no skipping that I can tell. Really miss Roon although the LMS player does sound much better. Hopefully Innuos will get Roon to load into memory at playback.

 

Maybe Peter will jump in on whether I should try the Lush2

[PeterSt]

@FrankMA, I see nothing that makes me think that should help. So a kind of formal response is : best to send back your Lush if it does not suit you.

Let's proceed by email.

 

Regards,

Peter

[Cebolla]

On 8/18/2018 at 8:47 AM, BigAlMc said:

Also it's definitely Roon related because I've never experienced it using the Zeniths LMS player but frequently get it with Roon. 

 

The Zenith's LMS player (or strictly speaking its built-in Squeezelite player) is also being used by the Roon core server via Squeezebox streaming, so it's not actually a Roon Endpoint. So perhaps it's a problem with the Roon core server's Logitech Media Server emulation.

[Cebolla]

On 8/21/2018 at 9:54 AM, FrankMA said:

 

Tried but since the Oppo is not a Roon endpoint, It is not available in Roon as a zone (unless I am missing something)

 

Neither is the Innuos Zenith a Roon Endpoint; the Roon core server is accessing the Zenith via Squeezebox streaming, not via its proprietary RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) streaming protocol (used for Roon Ready/Roon Endpoints).

 

What you actually need to test with is a Squeezebox type steamer with USB audio output.

[FrankMA]

Hello @Cebolla  I have been playing with the LMS streamer (ipeng9) and have had no skipping issues MKII>Lush>PS Directstream Jr

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

 

The Zenith's LMS player (or strictly speaking its built-in Squeezelite player) is also being used by the Roon core server via Squeezebox streaming, so it's not actually a Roon Endpoint. So perhaps it's a problem with the Roon core server's Logitech Media Server emulation.

Interesting. Not sure how you would do that

[Cebolla]

25 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

Hello @Cebolla  I have been playing with the LMS streamer (ipeng9) and have had no skipping issues MKII>Lush>PS Directstream Jr

 

24 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

Interesting. Not sure how you would do that

 

From your responses, I believe you may have misunderstood my posts.

 

Hopefully I can clarify:

 

The Zenith's LMS player uses a built-in Squeezebox type streamer, Squeezelite, in order to play audio supplied by the Logitech Media Server. The Zenith also uses the same Squeezelite player in order to play audio supplied by the Roon core server.

 

Innuos have taken advantage of Roon's (ancillary) support of Squeezebox type devices and have not bothered to implement a 'proper' Roon Endpoint for the Zenith. The Roon core server has to emulate a Logitech Media Server in order to allow it to be used with Squeezebox type streamers (such as the Zenith's Squeezelite).

 

So for the Zenith to play audio properly from the Roon core server, you are relying on Roon emulating LMS without any problems.

[asdf1000]

56 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Neither is the Innuos Zenith a Roon Endpoint

 

"Innuos has an option to turn off the Core and just use it as an audio/storage/cdripping device."

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/nucleus-vs-innuos-zenith-mkii-as-roon-server/41710/2

 

"you can set the server ain Roon bridge mode and use a powerful Computer to run Roon Core"

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/innuos-roon-musicserver/31450/5

[Cebolla]

Where in any of those links does it say that the Zenith is using RAAT or is a Roon Endpoint?

 

Notice the use of "Roon bridge".