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Went shopping for speakers, only 20% of my original system remains


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It's kind of hard to say since so much has changed in my system at once.  I hooked the DAC and speakers up at the same time yesterday.  What I can tell you right away is that the music coming from the DAC with it's conversion to 10X DSD sounds very fluid.  I've heard people say less digital and I would agree.  As far as I'm concerned I've never had problems with the Rendu as far as dropouts or skips, the same goes with DirectStream Jr. so far.  Overall the sound quality on all the new equipment far exceeds what I had before, speakers being the greatest difference. 

 

I would only use ethernet from here on out, it simplifies things, especially cabling.  I haven't decided to sell the Rendu or keep it for another system later down the line.  I considered this DAC for a couple of reasons one being ethernet connection and Roon/Tidal integration.  I wasn't sure about the whole conversion to DSD but it sounds really good, another will be to compare MQA stuff down the line.  With the McIntosh in play my systems sounds very warm, figuratively and literally.  My Bel Canto DAC with McIntosh sounded good but still had that digital CD sound which was fine, it is/was a great DAC.  I just wanted a more feature rich DAC.   

 

As a whole I been listening to music nonstop all day a lot songs are making me stop and sit down and hit repeat.  I can't wait for the speaker stands to arrive and position the speakers properly.  Right now their on stools not even close to where they'll be placed, just playing music to break in the speakers and DAC.

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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7 minutes ago, ShawnC said:

It's kind of hard to say since so much has changed in my system at once.

 

I would expect is would be extremly easy, as you can connect both to your DAC simultaneously. Maybe I’m not getting something here ?

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5 minutes ago, diecaster said:

@ShawnC

 

20x DSD, not 10x...

My bad, so much literature to read and retain ?

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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4 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

I would expect is would be extremly easy, as you can connect both to your DAC simultaneously. Maybe I’m not getting something here ?

Give me a minute to hook up another ethernet line.  I'll report back later

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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Well that was simple I forgot I had a ethernet line connected to my receiver nearby.  Simple answer no change.  Both sound the same.  If there's a difference and there could be, I don't hear it.  I used the USB input into the DAC from the microRendu with the their optional upgraded USB Adaptor.  I have an Audioquest Carbon USB cable but the Sonore's sound better and is really short.  

 

When I had my Bel Canto DAC I added Musical Fidelity V-link 192 USB converter between the Rendu and the DAC.  The Bel Canto played better with XLR or SPDIF inputs.

 

Again the system is nowhere near set up perfectly but it sounds pretty damn good to me.  The minute I hooked it up I knew I wasn't going to use the Rendu anymore.  I didn't even consider a A/B test to see if I was missing anything.  I hope this helps.

 

Another thing I'm trying to do is clean up the mess I had, less is better, I hope.

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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10 hours ago, ShawnC said:

It's kind of hard to say since so much has changed in my system at once.

 

This is a big mistake in my opinion.

 

One should never replace or evaluate more than one link of the chain at a time, as our references will be lost and we won't be able to determine what piece of equipment is causing which improvement or degradation.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@ShawnC

If your not using the MicroRendu as usb input, where and what feed the usb input then ?

 

Or maybe I’m missing something. Does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC do ethernet directly from Roon using the PS Audio Bridge II ?

The PS Audio DAC had a direct ethernet connection for hooking up to your network.  They call it the Bridge II as mentioned by diecaster.  So when I compared the the microRendu I hooked it up as usual into the USB input of the DAC.  Then I just toggled between the to inputs because Roon saw to different zones.  One input as PS Audio's DAC the Other as the Rendu I hope that clears things up.

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just an update, I upgraded to the DirectStream DAC, from the Jr.

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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5 hours ago, ShawnC said:

Just an update, I upgraded to the DirectStream DAC, from the Jr.

How much of a difference did you notice? When I heard the Jr at a dealer (he didn't have the Sr. on the floor that day), he tried to convince me to buy it on the spot with the reasoning: it's cheaper, it sounds 90% as good, and unless you directly A/B the two of them you won't notice the difference. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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7 hours ago, firedog said:

How much of a difference did you notice? When I heard the Jr at a dealer (he didn't have the Sr. on the floor that day), he tried to convince me to buy it on the spot with the reasoning: it's cheaper, it sounds 90% as good, and unless you directly A/B the two of them you won't notice the difference. 

Hard to say since I wasn't able to A/B them.  I had small glitch with the Jr., when I plugged it into my power conditioner.  The screen would flicker, that's it.  It sounded great, worked fine, just the flicker like an old TV that would have that line going up the screen from bottom to top.  So I went to the PS forum and asked what to do.  I had an immediate response from the PS Audio team including Paul McGowan.  They recommended going straight into the wall socket.  I did, problem solved.  They said they wanted 100% satisfaction from their customers and offered me an upgrade offer that I couldn't refuse.  So I sent the Jr. back after 5 days of use and just received the Sr. on Friday.  Out of the box they sound similar but I only had a few days of listening with either units.

 

I think you have the Kii's so you're probably not looking for a DAC, if you're still interested in the Jr/Sr. PM me.  I'll tell you how I got a good deal initially on the Jr.    I was seriously considering the Kii's but they're a tad out of my reach and nowhere local or far to demo.

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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On 7/29/2018 at 2:10 PM, ShawnC said:

   About two weeks ago July 18, I started looking for new speakers preferably book shelves or compact.  I've always enjoyed my subwoofer, so I thought maybe I can get by with a smaller pair of speakers that may have better mids and highs and let the sub do its thing.  So I started listening to several of the usual contenders B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, Paradigm, Sonus Faber ect.  Each speaker has their own strengths and weaknesses but I couldn't decide on any one specific product except at one store, the integrated amp that was providing the power was awesome .  I ended up purchasing it instead of speakers a McIntosh MA252 integrated amplifier with tubes in the preamp section.

   The McIntosh did at home exactly what it's supposed to do, give you that Mc sound, but I was still on the hunt for speakers.  The problem with some of this stuff is what to do with your old equipment if your not going to use it.  Do you sell, trade, co-sign, borrow it to a friend or keep it for future use.  As I scoured the internet (Superphonica had several opportunities I could have tried) for other possible contenders for speakers, I finally came across a brand that I liked hearing a long time ago, Legacy Audio.  They have a bookshelf called the Calibre that might fit my needs.  Only one problem, no dealers nearby.  The closest dealer from the Twin Cities is in Green Bay.  Not extremely far, about a 4 hour drive but still a long way to go just to listen to a pair of speakers.  But wait a minute, they have a trade in  feature on their website towards purchasing their products.  So late Wednesday night after 9pm on July 25, I filled out a trade form just to see what I might get as a value towards buying something new, including my Triton 5s and my SuperCenter XXL speaker from Goldenear.  To my amazement they replied by email about 2 hours later while I was sleeping.  They offered me nearly 85% of the original retail value of my speakers towards the purchase of the Legacy Calibre, Green Bay hear I come!

    On Friday night July 27, I loaded up my speakers with all original packaging, cables, manuals the works.  For shits and giggles I put a couple of amps I wasn't using in my SUV to see if they'll deal with me on a trade for something like speaker stands or cables, who knows but I liked what they offered me, so lets get rid of some old stuff I wasn't using.  On Saturday morning just before I left I thought to myself what about my DAC? In it went.  Finally I'm heading for Green Bay, set the cruise control for 80 and let my Passport MAX 360 look for the police.  I arrived a little early so I went to check out Lambeau which was just down the street.   Not a Packers fan but it's a nice facility they have there.

    Back at the store I gave a listen to the Calibre's and it's exactly what I was hoping to find.  We agreed to the offer that was given through the email exchange and next came the amps and DAC that I brought.  They didn't have any stands that were big enough to hold the Calibre's (50 lbs each) W10 X L15 X H 16, so the offer went towards a new PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream JR DAC.  Once again they made an offer I couldn't refuse.  Back to Minnesota with my new toys.

    Before I left for Wisconsin I had several speaker stands ready to order on the web if things didn't work in Green Bay.  When I arrived at home I pressed the purchase button on a pair that can hold 75 lbs.  The top plate is a little small but I've already made a bigger plate to sit on top of it. Side note, I help out part time at a woodshop that also has metal and plastics that I can create just about anything if I have enough time.

    So in the time it takes me to get rid of a Minnesota cold, I bought a new amp/pre, speakers, speaker stands and DAC, only the subwoofer remains from my original setup.  Man, I thought I was just looking speakers, what a hobby.  Oh yeah, the setup sounds really good so far and it's only gonna get better with time.  I'd like to give a shout out to the team at both HiFi Sound in Minneapolis, Mn. and HiFi Heaven in Green Bay, Wis., they were both helpful and fun to work with.  A few items from my original setup are being used by my friends to see if it's something they might want to use some day, keep the hobby moving forward.

 

New Rig 

PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream Jr. DAC

McIntosh MA252 Integrated amplifier

Legacy Audio Calibre speakers

Pangea DS400 speaker stands

 

OUT 

Bel Canto 2.7 Dac

Emotiva XPA2 Gen2 amp

Triton 5 speakers

Sonore microRendu /UltraCap LPS-1

 

 

Welcom to the mcintosh world...you will never go back!!  Nothing but another mcintosh will do anymore.

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18 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Welcom to the mcintosh world...you will never go back!!  Nothing but another mcintosh will do anymore.

Ha, love it.

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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3 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Welcom to the mcintosh world...you will never go back!!  Nothing but another mcintosh will do anymore.

 

Ha! Only if you like the McIntosh house sound. There are at least as many people out there that dislike the McIntosh house sound as those that like it. If you gave me a McIntosh component I would sell it! I don't like the McIntosh house sound at all. I need less lushness and warmth and more detail and clarity. McIntosh is like listening to Michael McDonald all the time!

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21 hours ago, biosailor said:

I didn't exactly go for speaker shopping, but I felt like checking the local HiFi dealers for interesting stuff. One shop had a demo Devialet 120 on display. I asked him if he'd be willing to lend me the system for a few days to check it out. So off I went with a large, black Devialet box, containing the 120 DAC/pre-amp/amp, the wonderfully stylish remote control, and a pair of white gloves for handling the shiny Devialet 120.

At home, all I needed to do was to connect the speakers and my beloved Aurender N100H to its USB port and I turned the shiny, metal pizza box on.

What a marvellous experience that was. A fantastic, clear, resolving, pleasant sound emanated from my speakers. I was hooked!

The next day, I went to the dealer's place and bought the Devialet 120. Off went my clunky system consisting of a separate DAC, pre-amp with a separate power supply, and the 25 kg power amp! I am left now with a sleek two-box setup and a sound that is much more revealing than my old system!

So al in all, from curious window shopping to replacement of a complicated system that never quite delivered the sound stage I was looking for! Quite some success!

IMG_0552.jpg

 

Class D sucks. What do you enjoy about the sound? What sonic attributes to you value most?

 

On 7/29/2018 at 4:10 PM, ShawnC said:

 

New Rig 

PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream Jr. DAC

McIntosh MA252 Integrated amplifier

Legacy Audio Calibre speakers

Pangea DS400 speaker stands

 

OUT 

Bel Canto 2.7 Dac

Emotiva XPA2 Gen2 amp

Triton 5 speakers

Sonore microRendu /UltraCap LPS-1

 

 

Going from Emotiva to McIntosh is a huge upgrade.

 

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