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Official Qobuz Issues Thread


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I don't want to appear as a troll in this thread, but as a Qobuz download service customer for 4 years and a Sublime subscriber for nearly one year now, I've made my not always positive experiences with the Qobuz service.

 

Of course, a fortune of Qobuz is, that they are able to stream in real HiRes quality up to FLAC 24/192 instead a lossy pseudo HiRes format.

 

Anyway, as usual for all streaming services, not verifiable is the real quality of the source files. In the Qobuz catalog are still a number of simple upsampled HIRes fakes and they haven't removed or replaced many of them until today, even after proven and repeated customers complaints. The resolution of the source file cannot be guaranteed by Qobuz because of the still not really existing quality control and confirmation, in contrary to Highresaudio.com, for example.

 

For download customers, you shouldn't expect the same prices, Qobuz can offer in Europe. The price depends on what the labels charge their download retailers for each country and that can vary even within Europe more than 800 % for some HiRes collections. 

 

There was always a gap between Qobuz announcements and the final implementation but as lovers of high quality audio gear and services, we are used to this behavior. 

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I have recently been experimenting a bit with my playback software. Up to now I have had good results with JRiver running on Win2012 R2. I use ASIO via Dante(DVS) for playback. I run my server as headless and rely on JMRC's excellent remote app running on IOS.

 

That has all changed now for the better but with some limitations. I am now using both Roon and Qobuz running on Win2016 server. The good news is that Roon on 2016 sounds better than JMRC on Win2012 and Qobuz has opened up a wonderful candy jar of new music to try with SQ that is very high. The bad news is that I cannot have both Roon Server and Qobuz running at the same time as ASIO runs in "exclusive mode" and so only wants to service one app at a time. If Roon Server is running then Qobuz will give me an error that the output is "already in use". Add to this that Qobuz has no "server mode" with it's own remote app. This means that I must use RDP on my laptop to control it with Roon Server unloaded.

 

My perfect world is to have the hinted at integration of Qobuz with Roon but so far that seems to be receding beyond the horizon. So my ask is can anyone think of a work-around other than what I am already doing? It looks like Audirvana+ now integrates both Roon and Qobuz in a new Windows version but it only supports Win10, with attempts to use Win2016 having failed.


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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1 hour ago, mourip said:

I have recently been experimenting a bit with my playback software. Up to now I have had good results with JRiver running on Win2012 R2. I use ASIO via Dante(DVS) for playback. I run my server as headless and rely on JMRC's excellent remote app running on IOS.

 

That has all changed now for the better but with some limitations. I am now using both Roon and Qobuz running on Win2016 server. The good news is that Roon on 2016 sounds better than JMRC on Win2012 and Qobuz has opened up a wonderful candy jar of new music to try with SQ that is very high. The bad news is that I cannot have both Roon Server and Qobuz running at the same time as ASIO runs in "exclusive mode" and so only wants to service one app at a time. If Roon Server is running then Qobuz will give me an error that the output is "already in use". Add to this that Qobuz has no "server mode" with it's own remote app. This means that I must use RDP on my laptop to control it with Roon Server unloaded.

 

My perfect world is to have the hinted at integration of Qobuz with Roon but so far that seems to be receding beyond the horizon. So my ask is can anyone think of a work-around other than what I am already doing? It looks like Audirvana+ now integrates both Roon and Qobuz in a new Windows version but it only supports Win10, with attempts to use Win2016 having failed.

 

If you have gone to the extent of trying Win2016 Server, perhaps you might want to try a small test installation of Win10 to run A+, though if that's more work than you want I understand.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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On 10/1/2018 at 1:17 PM, mourip said:

I cannot have both Roon Server and Qobuz running at the same time as ASIO runs in "exclusive mode" and so only wants to service one app at a time. If Roon Server is running then Qobuz will give me an error that the output is "already in use". Add to this that Qobuz has no "server mode" with it's own remote app. This means that I must use RDP on my laptop to control it with Roon Server unloaded.

 

On 10/1/2018 at 1:17 PM, mourip said:

So my ask is can anyone think of a work-around other than what I am already doing?

 

You could try JRiver (or another ASIO supporting audio file player with a much smaller footprint, such foobar2000) set up as a UPnP/DLNA renderer, with a third party method of streaming from Qobuz.

 

For example, the BubbleUPnP Server helper software, configured to create an OpenHome renderer for the UPnP renderer, would allow you to stream from Qobuz using a Qobuz supporting OpenHome controller such as the Linn Kazoo iOS app.

 

Or,  much less complicated with no need for OpenHome/the BubbleUPnP Server and so more direct - just use a Qobuz supporting standard UPnP/DLNA controller iOS app, such as mConnect Player (free Lite version available).

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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2 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

 

You could try JRiver (or another ASIO supporting audio file player with a much smaller footprint, such foobar2000) set up as a UPnP/DLNA renderer, with a third party method of streaming from Qobuz.

 

For example, the BubbleUPnP Server helper software, configured to create an OpenHome renderer for the UPnP renderer, would allow you to stream from Qobuz using a Qobuz supporting OpenHome controller such as the Linn Kazoo iOS app.

 

Or,  much less complicated with no need for OpenHome/the BubbleUPnP Server and so more direct - just use a Qobuz supporting standard UPnP/DLNA controller iOS app, such as mConnect Player (free Lite version available).

 

Thanks for the input. I thought that Qobuz had started to support DNLA but then withdrew it. When I first started using QB it showed DNLA available through JRiver which I still had running on my server but then that QB option soon disappeared. I tried it briefly but did not think that it sounded as good. I like the KISS school of audio where music is stored locally and the application plays through the local output. I do like remote control of the app which Roon does give me. I uninstalled JMRC when I recently moved to Windows Server 2016 and signed up for a year of Roon.

 

I used Foobar about 10 years ago but switched to JRiver due to sound quality and much friendlier user interface. I have now started using Roon and on my setup find it's sound quality to exceed JRiver . For now I think that I will just rely on RDP for Qobuz and keep my fingers crossed for Roon integration. On my system Roon sounds better than Qobuz so I am looking forward to hearing what Qobuz sounds like through Roon's audio engine. Having said that, Qobuz still sounds very good and having that giant candy jar of unexplored music is wonderful.

 

Thanks again...


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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Not sure if you've understood: you'd use JRiver or foobar2000 in place of the official Qobuz desktop software on the Win2016 machine, so the music will still be played locally via ASIO, including when you've configured them as UPnP renderers. Running them in their UPnP renderer configuration simply allows you to use a third party (ie, not Qobuz's own app) Qobuz accessing UPnP controller app on an iOS device (eg the mConnect Player app I mentioned), to provide a user interface with Qobuz access for the JRiver or the foobar2000 audio file player running on the still headless Win2016 box - so JRiver's and foobar2000's own user interfaces are irrelevant.

 

Therefore it saves you having to control the Qobuz playback via RDP on your laptop, but I think you still have the issue of the exclusive ASIO access. It's a shame that RoonLabs decided not to let the Roon Core Server support industry standard UPnP/DLNA, otherwise you would have the option to output your Roon playback to either the JRiver UPnP renderer or foobar2000 UPnP renderer running on the same machine and then out to your DAC via ASIO, to avoid the exclusivity issue.

 

Having said that Roon does support outputting to Squeezebox devices and there is software that you can run on Windows that allows UPnP renderers to be used as if the were Squeezeboxes. However, it is a bit complicated to set up, so I suspect not something that you'd consider as KISS!

 

BTW, I believe Qobuz's own software does still support UPnP/DLNA, but they are keeping it quiet as it's a beta feature & not currently very reliable. Also it's only available on the Qobuz desktop version.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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3 hours ago, mourip said:

 

Thanks for the input. I thought that Qobuz had started to support DNLA but then withdrew it.

 

21 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

BTW, I believe Qobuz's own software does still support UPnP/DLNA, but they are keeping it quiet as it's a beta feature & not currently very reliable. Also it's only available on the Qobuz desktop version.

 

Yes that feature is still in there. I too thought it was withdrawn, but apparently the app was only updated to be smarter about compatibility.

 

Originally it listed any music device on my network, including several Squeezeboxen and an ultraRendu with Squeezelite, though all were incompatible with the Qobuz app. Trying to play to them sent metadata but no audio.  Running DLNA/MPD on the ultraRendu didn't work either. And after the app update, I no longer saw them listed.

 

I recently discovered that I can trick the app into seeing them again by loading UPnPBridge on my ultraRendu, after which that device and all the Squeezeboxes show up in the Qobuz list again. However I am not running Roon so this is not really going to work, and indeed a few moments after one of those devices is selected the Qobuz app declares it incompatible and switches back to the last-selected audio device without allowing me to even try playing to it.

 

So like I said, not withdrawn just smarter.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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1 hour ago, left channel said:

Originally it listed any music device on my network, including several Squeezeboxen and an ultraRendu with Squeezelite, though all were incompatible with the Qobuz app. Trying to play to them sent metadata but no audio.  Running DLNA/MPD on the ultraRendu didn't work either. And after the app update, I no longer saw them listed.

 

I recently discovered that I can trick the app into seeing them again by loading UPnPBridge on my ultraRendu, after which that device and all the Squeezeboxes show up in the Qobuz list again.

 

I'm not disputing whether you saw the Squeezebox type devices listed, but I doubt it's because the Qobuz desktop app's UPnP/DLNA streaming support feature also supported Squeezebox streaming, as there's been no mention of it anywhere officially nor otherwise. So the Qobuz desktop app's streamer support is as a UPnP/DLNA controller and not as a Squeezebox controller. Also there's very little chance of Squeezeboxen being listed by accident as UPnP/DLNA streamers, perhaps due to some bug in the Qobuz desktop software, since their device discovery mechanisms are so completely different.

 

What's far more likely is that you were running something else at the same time that was getting the Squeezebox type devices to show up as UPnP/DLNA streamers and thus was tricking the Qobuz desktop app. However, that's very unlikely to be be Sonore's UPnPBridge app, as that's supposed to work the other way around, ie, to trick either the Roon Core Server or the Logitech Media Server into thinking that a UPnP/DLNA renderer is a Squeezebox device!

 

No, the likely candidate is that you were running a version of the Logitech Media Server on some device (eg, LMS is available as an app on Sonore devices) connected to the same network and that the LMS had its UPnP/DLNA Media Interface 1.0 plugin (by Andy Grundman) enabled. This plugin allows LMS to get any Squeezebox type device connected to it to also be listed as a UPnP renderer by any UPnP/DLNA controller app  on the same network and therefore allow the Squeezeboxen to be used by the UPnP controller app as if they were true UPnP renderers. 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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4 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

I'm not disputing whether you saw the Squeezebox type devices listed, but I doubt it's because the Qobuz desktop app's UPnP/DLNA streaming support feature also supported Squeezebox streaming,

 

I'm not saying the app supported Squeezeboxen at any time. I don't know why I even brought this up, as this feature is after all still in beta, but I thought it was interesting that UPnPBridge kind of "woke it up" and that the app now better handles incompatible devices. When I uninstalled UPnPBridge, those devices disappeared again.

The plugin you mentioned has been enabled in LMS from the beginning here. To summarize my previous post, when the beta first rolled out the app listed my Squeezy devices but of course did not support them. Then after an update the app no longer saw them. Then when I installed UPnPBridge it saw them again, but was smarter about telling me to get lost. When I uninstalled UPnPBridge it no longer saw them. That is all.

 

Oh and for the record, as I've posted previously, the Qobuz plugin for LMS is working great. It supports high-resolution streaming, and in the latest update now provides access to PDF booklets (when available). So I don't really need the official Qobuz app at home, but I do like the design and content.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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1 hour ago, left channel said:

I'm not saying the app supported Squeezeboxen at any time. I don't know why I even brought this up, as this feature is after all still in beta

 

Ok, fair enough.

 

 

1 hour ago, left channel said:

To summarize my previous post, when the beta first rolled out the app listed my Squeezy devices but of course did not support them. Then after an update the app no longer saw them. Then when I installed UPnPBridge it saw them again, but was smarter about telling me to get lost. When I uninstalled UPnPBridge it no longer saw them. That is all.

 

I can't see how the Qobuz Desktop app could tell the difference between a true UPnP renderer and one created on a Squeezebox's behalf by the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface LMS plugin.

 

Not sure how come, but I think after the update for some reason, on your particular network, the Qobuz Desktop app's UPnP broadcast request for all UPnP renderers to announce themselves is no longer getting through. However, I suspect the same UPnP broadcast request by the UPnPBridge does get through, with the Qobuz Desktop app riding on its coattails by also picking up the 'I am here' responses from the UPnP renderers, so would include the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface created UPnP renderers.

 

Actually, thinking about it, you haven't at any time mentioned any true UPnP renderers being listed by Qobuz Desktop app, only the ones created for the Squeezebox devices.

 

A quick question - on which network device is your LMS running and therefore the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface created UPnP renderers? If the LMS is on the Sonore, then that would explain why the UPnPBridge's UPnP broadcast request for the UPnP renderers to announce themselves is being picked up by the UPnP renderers created for the Squeezeboxen - they are also on the Sonore.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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29 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Actually, thinking about it, you haven't at any time mentioned any true UPnP renderers being listed by Qobuz Desktop app, only the ones created for the Squeezebox devices.

 

That's right. So basically my network is a great test for how elegantly the Qobuz desktop app can ignore my players and/or tell me to go stuff it.  ?

 

29 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

A quick question - on which network device is your LMS running and therefore the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface created UPnP renderers? If the LMS is on the Sonore, then that would explain why the UPnPBridge's UPnP broadcast request for the UPnP renderers to announce themselves is being picked up by the UPnP renderers created for the Squeezeboxen - they are also on the Sonore.

 

My LMS is on a microJukebox (the tiniest sonicTransporter-type server from Small Green Computer).  I ran UPnPBridge on a Sonore ultraRendu, where I normally only run Squeezelite. There are also a few actual Squeezeboxes here too, and everything is on a wired gigabit network.

 

Thanks to features like the Qobuz plugin for LMS, I've managed to resist being absorbed by the Roon Borg thus far. I was just playing with UPnPBridge to see if it would shout loud enough to wake up my network neighborhood. Which it did.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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16 hours ago, left channel said:

My LMS is on a microJukebox (the tiniest sonicTransporter-type server from Small Green Computer).  I ran UPnPBridge on a Sonore ultraRendu, where I normally only run Squeezelite. There are also a few actual Squeezeboxes here too, and everything is on a wired gigabit network.

 

Thanks to features like the Qobuz plugin for LMS, I've managed to resist being absorbed by the Roon Borg thus far. I was just playing with UPnPBridge to see if it would shout loud enough to wake up my network neighborhood. Which it did.

 

Ok then, UPnP device discovery doesn't appear to be an issue with your network, seeing as the UPnPBridge is running on a different networked machine to LMS with the enabled UPnP/DLNA Media Interface plugin, but what about the computer you're running the Qobuz Desktop app on? Could a firewall be blocking the updated Qobuz Desktop app's UPnP device discovery requests on its computer?

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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3 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Ok then, UPnP device discovery doesn't appear to be an issue with your network, seeing as the UPnPBridge is running on a different networked machine to LMS with the enabled UPnP/DLNA Media Interface plugin, but what about the computer you're running the Qobuz Desktop app on? Could a firewall be blocking the updated Qobuz Desktop app's UPnP device discovery requests on its computer?

 

I doubt there are any firewall issues, given the history I reported above of when my streamers were or were not listed in the Qobuz app, and because Squeezbox-specific apps like Squeezelite-X and SqueezePlay have no such trouble finding the same devices. Thanks for spending time on this, but I think we should just wait for the next update to see what happens.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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22 hours ago, Cebolla said:

Not sure how come, but I think after the update for some reason, on your particular network, the Qobuz Desktop app's UPnP broadcast request for all UPnP renderers to announce themselves is no longer getting through. However, I suspect the same UPnP broadcast request by the UPnPBridge does get through, with the Qobuz Desktop app riding on its coattails by also picking up the 'I am here' responses from the UPnP renderers, so would include the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface created UPnP renderers.

 

Sorry for nitpicking, but UPnP uses multicast, not broadcast for discovery. This is important distinction, especially because broadcasts are privileged operation on any sane OS, so normal applications cannot deal with such... They are handled differently throughout the network stack.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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No, no need to apologise, Jussi. I meant broadcast in its common/dumbed down sense, rather than as a network group communication.

 

Actually, what I was 'fearing' on getting pulled up on was the notion that a UPnP control point could pick up the UDP unicast responses from the UPnP devices to another UPnP control point's (multicast) UPnP Discovery message! In reality, it could only be the UPnP devices' regular/heartbeat multicast 'I'm still here' UPnP Notification messages that another UPnP control point would be capable of picking up.

 

One explanation for the Qobuz Desktop app seeming to pick up the LMS 'created for Squeezebox' UPnP renderer responses to the UPnPBridge's UPnP Discovery message is that the receipt of a UPnP Discovery message causes the LMS created UPnP renderers to reinitialise their UPnP Notification message process timers. So may be an initial/immediate UPnP Notification message is sent in addition to the response to the UPnP Discovery message.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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15 hours ago, left channel said:

 

I doubt there are any firewall issues, given the history I reported above of when my streamers were or were not listed in the Qobuz app, and because Squeezbox-specific apps like Squeezelite-X and SqueezePlay have no such trouble finding the same devices. Thanks for spending time on this, but I think we should just wait for the next update to see what happens.

 

Anything is possible if you are using Windows and its firewall. Lost count of the number of times I've had to look into the Windows firewall settings for an application just because a new version of it has been installed.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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3 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Anything is possible if you are using Windows and its firewall. Lost count of the number of times I've had to look into the Windows firewall settings for an application just because a new version of it has been installed.

 

These changes did not happen after a Windows update or any adjustment of my firewall settings, but the topic certainly sounds like something Qobuz should be looking into, if any of my posts cause them concern. More important (to me), I hope they're using this extra time to also clean up their fr-en translations.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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No, not after a new version/update of Windows (though that would be another thing to check) - I meant after a new version of the application in question is installed, so for example an update to the Qobuz Desktop app. However, I agree, the onus should be on the application's designer to make sure any necessary adjustments to the Windows firewall is done automatically for you by the application's update installer software.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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ciao...so I followed all the instructions to modify my hifi tier to studio tier. I entered my payment information(as per the instructions), my card was charged and..............nothing. No acknowledgement from Qobuz. No instructions on what to do. I've now paid twice for this month. What do I do? Accepting my new payment was easy. Follow through...not so much.

 

Here are the instructions I followed:

How to change my subscription offer?

You can change your subscription offer or formula at any time. Here’s how:

  • Login to Qobuz.com
  • Go to our offers page
  • Choose a new subscription
  • Confirm payment 

If your subscription is running, the system will notify you if you are eligible to a prorate. The previous subscription will be overwritten and you will be able to instantaneously take advantage of your new subscription. 

Warning: do not unsubscribe from your current offer before changing offers. You would lose any right to a potential prorate.

 

iMac - iTunes(AIFF) - Squeeze 7.9- QOBUZ flac streamer - Vodafone Revolution Router - Transporter - Pathos Classic One MkIII - JM/Focal Daline 3 - dhLabs & Xindak xlr cables - Mapleshade header and footers - AppleTV3

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