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Article: Should You Rent or Buy Audio Software?


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4 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Conventionally, "free" has a very different meaning in the context of software.  

 

https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software

 

iTunes is not "free" in this context, as it is closed-source and proprietary.  

 

Foobar is "freeware" but proprietary.  The SDK is less restrictive (BSD).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar2000

 

 

I use the consumer definition of free. No money needed to use it. 

 

But i fully understand the other definitions. 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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I almost bought a Lumin unit just because of my love affair with the Lumin app, which I used for 4 years with Bubbleupnp Server. 

 

Reason prevailed. I bought an ultraRendu because of their hardware support (I had owned an original Sonore Rendu).

 

With the ultraRendu, I now have a host of software options available to me - free, rental,  purchased - including Lumin app.

 

FWIW, I've settled down with A+ / A+Remote. It's not as user friendly as Lumin App, but the combination of the ultraRendu and A+ has a very satisfactory sound quality in my system. I even went so far as to buy a stand alone Mac Mini to run A+ on my LAN.

 

My preference is to buy the software although I am not opposed to the Roon-like model. I don't see myself "buying" Roon, but I like to know I have that option.

 

Bottom line for me: buy the most flexible hardware, try a bunch of software, buy when you can, and rent when the market is uncertain.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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Consumer software devs today have to–have to–keep up with OS updates (not to mention Ux improvements and bug fixes), and you know how fast those come. And again, you "have to" upgrade, eventually. But the devs have to keep up all the time, period. Surprise: This costs money. Along with support for non-technical users (of which there are many on a spectrum of ability and desire to use that ability). Some things in audio I'll bend over backward for; others not so much. I put software far into the latter category, so I'll pay but I expect support when things don't "just work."

 

Thus I no longer think I own software, any software. I'm merely renting/licensing it until the day business realities (e.g., competition, developers losing interest or passing away, etc.) force my relationship to change. I will definitely cry the day I'm forced to replace my favorite calendar software for Macs and iOS (BUSYCAL!!!) because it's so clearly the best for me (why others don't get it is unfathomable).

 

And so, one must/should factor in a company's ability to support their software when purchasing the hardware. Based on threads here, a particularly popular bookshelf speaker system that has a "wireless" option is notable for their apparent disregard for software and their customer's overall product Ux. I've heard the speakers and they easily deserve their sonic accolades, but I won't touch 'em because the mfg does not demonstrate hardware AND software acumen. I prefer to use my audio time listening, not troubleshooting.

 

This hobby's demographics probably don't map well to that of software subscribers, and it's too bad because this hobby needs to scale true hardware and software talent with commensurate organizational chops.

 

Sum>Frankenstein: JPlay/Audirvana/iTunes, Uptone EtherRegen+LPS-1.2, Rivo Streamer+Uptone JS-2, Schiit Yggdrasil LiM+Shunyata Delta XC, Linn LP12/Hercules II/Ittok/Denon DL-103R, ModWright LS 100, Pass XA25, Tellurium Black II, Monitor Audio Silver 500 on IsoAcoustics Gaias, Shunyata Delta XC, Transparent Audio, P12 power regenerator, and positive room attributes.

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Was a JRiver user and went over to Roon - lifetime subscription.

 

The JRiver model is a good one in terms of the economics. You don't have to upgrade if you don't feel like the newer versions are providing a feature you want. Obviously if there are changes like security upgrades or  large  OS architecture  changes and the like, you probably need to upgrade.

 

I simply found Roon better fit my needs. I hesitated, but once I saw that it looked like it was catching on, I bought a lifetime (at a discount) subscription. I basically figured it like this: The lifetime subscription is the cost of 4 years (in my case 3) of a yearly subscription. So as long as Roon stays in business a few years, I break even. Every additional year they are in business, my average yearly cost goes down. If they stay in business 10 years or more, the yearly cost of the software is pretty small, and at the level of JRiver + upgrades. If we get to that point I'll really feel like I've gotten more than my money's worth. 
 

It's a bit difficult to compare the price of a program like Roon to some of the other programs, because it's sort  of comparing apples and oranges. Roon is web based, and they apparently pay quite substantial fees for features like Tidal integration and metadata updates. In the end, either you find it's features compelling and worth their price, or you don't. I'm guessing most people who try Roon and don't buy/rent it don't really find it's web based features that compelling, so it isn''t a good value for them. 

 

So far I'm pretty happy with my decision. Roon has regular upgrades which improve the user experience and the team there have added LOTS of features over the last few years. I'm sure that at least 2 of the updates are so significant that if Roon was on a model like JRiver I would already have paid at least a couple of times for an upgrade. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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The SQ I get from standard resolution Qobuz is excellent. Local streaming is a smidge better, if it is a good CD source; not always the case.

 

Keeping files locally requires an investment in hardware and time. This may not be worthwhile for some.

 

Streaming services can drop music that you enjoy, as has happened to me a few times. Also comms issues can make the service unavailable, and also drop the quality on occasion. Another issue may be changes in technology. For instance, I use a NOS DAC. Should MQA become a de-facto standard this may effect what is available via a service I choose to use, my own files will be consistent.

 

I am happy with the mixture. I want to have the recordings that I choose, not just those that are available via the service provider. However, the service allows me to listen at ease to a mountain of music and expand my knowledge and experience.

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2 hours ago, firedog said:

Was a JRiver user and went over to Roon - lifetime subscription.

 

The JRiver model is a good one in terms of the economics. You don't have to upgrade if you don't feel like the newer versions are providing a feature you want. Obviously if there are changes like security upgrades or  large  OS architecture  changes and the like, you probably need to upgrade.

 

I simply found Roon better fit my needs. I hesitated, but once I saw that it looked like it was catching on, I bought a lifetime (at a discount) subscription. I basically figured it like this: The lifetime subscription is the cost of 4 years (in my case 3) of a yearly subscription. So as long as Roon stays in business a few years, I break even. Every additional year they are in business, my average yearly cost goes down. If they stay in business 10 years or more, the yearly cost of the software is pretty small, and at the level of JRiver + upgrades. If we get to that point I'll really feel like I've gotten more than my money's worth. 
 

It's a bit difficult to compare the price of a program like Roon to some of the other programs, because it's sort  of comparing apples and oranges. Roon is web based, and they apparently pay quite substantial fees for features like Tidal integration and metadata updates. In the end, either you find it's features compelling and worth their price, or you don't. I'm guessing most people who try Roon and don't buy/rent it don't really find it's web based features that compelling, so it isn''t a good value for them. 

 

So far I'm pretty happy with my decision. Roon has regular upgrades which improve the user experience and the team there have added LOTS of features over the last few years. I'm sure that at least 2 of the updates are so significant that if Roon was on a model like JRiver I would already have paid at least a couple of times for an upgrade. 

IIRC, your software would have to last for nearly twenty years to equal JRiver's cost with upgrades being $25 annually. Does it really cost a lot to have Tidal integration? I honestly want to know. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I really do not care for Roon. I only use it because of the Tidal integration for HQPlayer. As good as Roon is for piecing together files cohesively, their search function sucks at any interpretations, and you cannot even copy/paste into or out of their program to get the exact spelling correctly as is required.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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@The Computer Audiophile My take on your subject matter differs slightly.  Particularly where you angle for us to fill out our own questions after spinning a marketing quiz as casual conversation.  Despite having reservations, I will however take opportunity to fill out my own questions.  :D

 

  1. How fully do you plan to exploit this if given free rein to orchestrate structured plans through your web entities?  As an example I'll reference how cell data is given primary and tertiary prominence.  Tower owner, slightly above secondary importance large competitor, and thirdly all remaining capability is dished out to sub-contractors with promises (tied to reduction of fee schedule if not met) to meet set minimum functionality standards.  Pretty tight regulation of how good service is and how often requests for signal updates get answered.
  2. Do you ever really buy software or just rent it like combustibles and comestibles?  I know some people borrow software, but that probably isn't relevant here.
  3. At what point on the CA road map does acquiring a software occur?  What is the preferred business model of monetizing it?  Are you currently hiring developers to be placed in positions at a future date?
  4. Have you explored this avenue at any point previously through paid studies or applying for outside funding?

 

       5.  Bonus question:  Who do you think would win between the two of us in an international online forms + fees dash to claim                     commercial ownership of "C.A.S.H."????

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7 minutes ago, rando said:

@The Computer Audiophile My take on your subject matter differs slightly.  Particularly where you angle for us to fill out our own questions after spinning a marketing quiz as casual conversation.  Despite having reservations, I will however take opportunity to fill out my own questions.  :D

 

  1. How fully do you plan to exploit this if given free rein to orchestrate structured plans through your web entities?  As an example I'll reference how cell data is given primary and tertiary prominence.  Tower owner, slightly above secondary importance large competitor, and thirdly all remaining capability is dished out to sub-contractors with promises (tied to reduction of fee schedule if not met) to meet set minimum functionality standards.  Pretty tight regulation of how good service is and how often requests for signal updates get answered.
  2. Do you ever really buy software or just rent it like combustibles and comestibles?  I know some people borrow software, but that probably isn't relevant here.
  3. At what point on the CA road map does acquiring a software occur?  What is the preferred business model of monetizing it?  Are you currently hiring developers to be placed in positions at a future date?
  4. Have you explored this avenue at any point previously through paid studies or applying for outside funding?

 

       5.  Bonus question:  Who do you think would win between the two of us in an international online forms + fees dash to claim                     commercial ownership of "C.A.S.H."????

 

I have no idea what you’re talking about but I hope it’s supposed to be funny. 

 

Can you explain it for those of us who are slow?

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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11 hours ago, tmtomh said:

But I find it telling that Roon, for example, has a "lifetime subscription" option that's really just a conventional purchase option.

True, except that if they go out of business you lose much of the functionality. 

 

1 hour ago, 4est said:

IIRC, your software would have to last for nearly twenty years to equal JRiver's cost with upgrades being $25 annually.

I don't assume the price won't go up over twenty years, or that I won't have to pay for a new full version at least once or twice in 20 years. The risk of those scenarios is probably higher than the risk I'm taking buying a "lifetime" (4-5 years worth of yearly subscriptions) in Roon.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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4 hours ago, MrUnderhill said:

Should MQA become a de-facto standard this may effect what is available via a service I choose to use, my own files will be consistent.

Or you can just use a playback system that does "first unfold" in software/web app. Then it probably won't matter if you have an MQA DAC or not. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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