Jump to content
vortecjr

Introducing Dark Matter system clarifier by Barrows Worm

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, barrows said:

Please read MY descriptions, not those made by random posters.  I never said anything about an "attractive" force of any kind, and I specifically responded to one comment which used the work "lure" RF energy.  Dark Matter does not "attract" RF energy.  It couples with RF fields in its proximity (passing through it in other words) and converts some of the RF energy in its proximity to heat.

So what good is a chunk of this stuff for dealing with all the radiation that doesn't happen to hit it? As a shield encasing something to keep radiation out (or in), it would make (some) sense. A small block placed beside the equipment in need of protection makes no sense if I've understood the description correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mansr said:

So what good is a chunk of this stuff for dealing with all the radiation that doesn't happen to hit it? As a shield encasing something to keep radiation out (or in), it would make (some) sense. A small block placed beside the equipment in need of protection makes no sense if I've understood the description correctly.

Read the first post.  I clearly point out that where it is placed is important, and give some advice as to placement, and encourage people to experiement.  Clearly, placement is going to be critical to effectiveness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you describe the listening tests you / Sonore used to evaluate it?

 

Several (and diverse) forum members have expressed doubts, so that might help people decide whether to buy, and then do their own listening tests.

 

The fact that there is a return policy is good.  So it is simply a matter of effort & shipping to listen in your own system.

 

And, BTW, let me make clear that this is -not- in the same category as directional cables (which someone pm'd me about).  This is an extant technology, not voodoo at all that could qualitatively improve SQ (i.e. not relying on any impossible things or breaking laws of physics).  That does not mean that the quantitative effect is large enough to affect SQ in anyone's home system, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, vortecjr said:

The only reason DM is for sale is that it made enough of a difference in tests and it was decided it was worthwhile to offer to audiophiles.

 

Great. Links please. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, barrows said:

If one is not interested, do not bother with it, if one is, it is easy and relatively affordable to try if you are interested in reducing RF interferences.

 

Oh, I'm interested. Just like a bunch of other products I'm interested in. Not all of them I keep. Some do end up going back if they don't do anything for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, barrows said:

This has already been answered here:  Dark Matter contains compounds which couple with RF energy and convert it to heat.  This is pretty simple stuff really.

 

You have any IR graphs on this? I work in the field of access control where we have passive 13.4 and 125Khz devices that get energized by a reader momentarily so the encoded data can be read. And we have tools for measuring that. 

 

I would be interested to see IR graphs of it's absorption of RF on a few difference AC cables. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

The fact that there is a return policy is good

 

I may have missed where the return policy is for these devices. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

And, BTW, let me make clear that this is -not- in the same category as directional cables (which someone pm'd me about).  This is an extant technology, not voodoo at all that could qualitatively improve SQ (i.e. not relying on any impossible things or breaking laws of physics).  That does not mean that the quantitative effect is large enough to affect SQ in anyone's home system, however.

Totally agreed.  I address in the first post describing the product.  Except that I already know the quantitative effect is enough to be audible and an improvement in the systems in which it has been tried.  By all means this is a subtle but meaningful difference in audiophile terms, however, when one tries DM one is not going to hear the "lifting of a thousand veils", and "Diana Krall whispering directly into my ear...."  etc, etc.

 

BTW, I will no longer address questions which are already addressed in the first post.  If one is actually interested in learning something about the product, please read the first post describing it, and then if there are questions I am happy to help.  But it is a waste of everyone's time to answer the same questions over and over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, barrows said:

Except that I already know the quantitative effect is enough

 

Great, I always prefer quantitative folks to the qualitative folks. Since we are dealing with the quant and not qual do you have any write ups (PDF or Web page would be terrific) that you can provide a link to for the quantitative analysis? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, barrows said:

Read the first post.  I clearly point out that where it is placed is important, and give some advice as to placement, and encourage people to experiement.  Clearly, placement is going to be critical to effectiveness.

I have read all the posts. Nowhere do I see an explanation for how placing this next to a power cord, or anything else, will have an effect on the 95% of whatever not in it's shadow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mansr said:

I have read all the posts. Nowhere do I see an explanation for how placing this next to a power cord, or anything else, will have an effect on the 95% of whatever not in it's shadow?

 

I was wondering about that since the width of a quarter is 25mm and this box looks like only 70mm on the side? I'm used to most RF chokes surrounding the cable in 360 degrees. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, plissken said:

I was wondering about that since the width of a quarter is 25mm and this box looks like only 70mm on the side? I'm used to most RF chokes surrounding the cable in 360 degrees. 

Ferrite chokes increase the inductance of the cable, thus attenuating high-frequency signals/noise. A ferrite block placed beside a cable will do the same thing to a much lesser degree. If this "dark matter" thing is just a very inefficient ferrite choke, why not buy a proper one for $2 instead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps the packaging needs a different angle. The NCF Booster from Furutech supports heavy AC cables at the equipment's AC power terminals, and the suppression material can be moulded into a circular shape, more akin to a ferrite's application. The material used by the NCF is similar to DM, as the energy is converted to IR.  Some digital cameras have an infra red tweak, so a before and after maybe work.

 

Personally I could use a few of NCF, since the AC cables are unsupported with velcro against the frame of the Quadraspire rack and could use that strain relief. Whether there's a sonic advantage is probably secondary, but a nice bonus (if it exists).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have this RF meter with good sensitivity. At the very least it can provide a relative measure as to how much attenuation an object provides between the source and the meter...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, look&listen said:
8 hours ago, barrows said:

device is not going to be sensitive enough

 

Newer device ($170) spec for RF Sensitivity - 0.001 mW/m^2. If not good enough what is needed RF sensisitivity?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst I appreciate the exhortation to move on if one isn’t interested - and I’m not- this seems a risky venture for  Sonore , certainly I’ll have a salt cellar handy when I’m reading about future products. 

 

.sjb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mansr said:

I have read all the posts. Nowhere do I see an explanation for how placing this next to a power cord, or anything else, will have an effect on the 95% of whatever not in it's shadow.

 

Yes, it would have to shadow the sensitive components from the source.  There is a huge engineering literature on this concept for heat transfer.  The term is "radiative view factor" and ME texts such as Kreith, and Karlekar & Desmond discuss it, giving tables for lookup and diagrams.

 

re ferrite cores - try a quick web search on that + RAM or Radar Absorbing Materials

 

any tiny elements picking up RF would transduce that to vibrations ( = "heat") to dissipate the RF energy - tiny loops have been used, as well as some other shapes

 

back to that view factor - barrows suggested in the OP that large AC cables (such as for an amp) are a likely source, but I don't recall that he stated what might be the most sensitive receivers of RF - perhaps the internal circuits of a DAC?

 

Anyway, an effective test would involve one knowing source & receiver so as to try for the best placement.

 

My amp is on the floor - 2-3 ft. from the DAC...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mansr said:

Ferrite chokes increase the inductance of the cable, thus attenuating high-frequency signals/noise. A ferrite block placed beside a cable will do the same thing to a much lesser degree. If this "dark matter" thing is just a very inefficient ferrite choke, why not buy a proper one for $2 instead?

No Ferrites or magnetic domains involved at all.  I know of some very effective passive ferrite products (not chokes, self adhesive sheets) which although expensive ($100+ USD for a sheet) work well-these are industrial products.  I have experimented with them inside Ethernet renderers above the processor.

I avoid ferries though in the Dark Matter because my experience suggest they do not promote good sound around analog circuits.  They seem to produce a "hard" sound over time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

barrows suggested in the OP that large AC cables (such as for an amp) are a likely source, but I don't recall that he stated what might be the most sensitive receivers of RF - perhaps the internal circuits of a DAC?

This is all going to be component dependent to an extent.  Which components are more or less sensitive to RF intrusion, etc, will depend on each individual component and its design.  Certainly some designers/engineers are better than others at producing designs which are less effected by RF.  This is why I encourage experimentation,  as results will vary.  To me this variance is no different than that of most power conditioners, especially the "passive" ones, their function seems both system and AC line quality dependent.

It is easy to surmise that things like MHz frequency clocks could be effected by RF intrusion, but again this will depend entirely on the engineering of the of the product in question.  I am sure this must have been studied...

The good news is that DM has no properties I am aware of which could harm sound, except for possibly in the case of  system which was tuned (in a mostly tonal sense) in the presence of a large amount of RF, in that case, reducing the RF in the vicinity could possibly make the system a little dull sounding (this would be an indication of a pre-existing problem though, which really should be addressed directly). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This sounds interesting to me.

The suggested application sounds similar to

http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/bybee-technologies-iqse/

 

As an engineer who has worked in wireless communication for 35+ years, I prefer proven quantitative data

when possible.  However, as an audiophile I always defer to my ears and firmly believe that very small (measurable or not)

differences can make a disproportionate change in my musical enjoyment.

A professor of mine from back in graduate school always said that 16/44 CD quality was perfect and many

colleagues in research question my sanity (to this day) when I tell them that cables impact the sound of an audio system.

My rule, based on my personal experience (YMMV), is that I can usually tell when something helps my audio system, even if I can't

explain why.  There are also a few folks, some are friends while others are folks I've read on the internet and never met, whose

observations jibe with mine and are therefore worthy of my attention.  The Sonore folks are included in the 2nd group.

 

I was already considering playing around in my system with the bybee tech iqse devices (i.e. testing) to see if I could get some of the benefits described in the stereotimes reviews.  This sounds like another option to reduce the noise level (by whatever means) in the system.

 

@Barrows:

How are these best attached to cables?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can use simple wire ties to attach these to cables.  As mentioned, they are likely to be more effective with unshielded cables.  For power cables, if you are not interested in placing Dark Matter internally in the component (the most effective solution), I would recommend placing them right at the IEC connector as close tp the cable as possible.  A small (the stuff is very tenacious so just use a small piece two) of double sided foam tape can stick DM to the chassis directly adjacent to the IEC jack.

BTW, there are a few pre-production samples available now.  Feel free to contact me directly to purchase or for questions at:

 

sonore.barrows@gmail.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×