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LPSU Choices?

the_doc735

By the_doc735
in Music Servers

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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Right, having considered the relevant replies in my last thread: at-what-cost-silence-ie-reduced-ripple, I cannot say I am swayed either way between ATX-PSU & LPSU, other than perhaps this:

 

Quote
On 7/13/2018 at 12:17 PM, 4est said:

To sorta answer your question then, the importance is not just the 5mV or 10mV ripple in the power supply, but it's rejection of high frequency noise and its ability to respond to the instantaneous current changes of the powered devices. 

 

....so, I have made my own mind up to go with the LPSU shortly!

My question now therefore is: what internal/external choices and options do I have when using pre-assembled devices? i.e. I don't want to build PCB's myself etc.

 

My PC will soon consist of the following:

 

Asus (based) desktop PC:

Asus ROG strix z270g Intel lga 1151 + Intel® HD Integrated Graphics 630. + Intel Core i5-7500T 2.70GHz Quad Processor SR337 7th gen, socket 1151 35W CPU. Asus (SDRW-08U1MT) Ultra Slim DVD Re-Writer (with M-Disc). + Pink Faun i2s Bridge PCI-e (expansion/riser) Card. + Samsung 250GB 960 M.2 (2280) Evo PCIe 3.0 (x4) NVMe 3D V-NAND SSD MZ-V6E250BW (x2). + Patriot Viper 4 16GB Dual Ch. DDR4 3000MHz PC4-24000 DIMM PV416G300C6K. + Seasonic Prime Ultra ’80+’ Titanium 650 Watt ATX M-PSU + Streacom st-fc9b-opt-alpha PC Fanless Chassis.

 

....this (the above) is what the LPSU will be working with. The new power supply may or may not include the current 'Seasonic' as part of the new setup (bits added on).

 

....many thanks in advance for any plausible suggestions.

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sandyk

sandyk

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Posted

Doc

 Please check your PMs

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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Switch-mode power supplies (SMPS) are in wall warts, external brick style power supplies, and all computers. The advantages of SMPS are that they are significantly smaller, significantly more efficient, operate with much less heat, and are significantly lower cost to manufacture. Smaller, cheaper, and more efficient...what's not to like?

The disadvantages of SMPS is they have significantly more noise than linear power supplies. The best SMPS have peak-to-peak ripple (noise) roughly equal to the most basic of linear power supplies. But ripple is not the only noise SMPS produce. They also radiate inductive noise that can be picked up by cables and components in close proximity. And they dump noise onto the common AC ground that pollutes the power of any component plugged into the same AC circuit.

 Also, when compared to high-performance linear power supplies, SMPS have very slow dynamic response. When reproducing music, slower power supplies sound awkward and less liquid, restrict dynamic passages, mask micro-details and micro-dynamics, and distort the time and tune.

All computer communication works on a system of checks and error correction (check sum). If a packet of data doesn’t pass the check, a new packet of data is sent to replace the original. The lower the power supply noise, the fewer bit read errors, the fewer errors to correct, and the greater the system resources.
When you free up system resources with a cleaner power supply a computer will perform as if it has a faster processor, faster storage drive, and more RAM. When a low-noise power supply is used with a computer-based music server or streamer the result is more liquid and articulate sound, combined with greater depth, detail, and dynamics. 

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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my new streamer build (pc) would require the following power circuits (inc. i2s card & optical drive):

 

+3.3v x5
+5.0v x8
+12.0v x8
-3.3v x0
-5.0v x1
-12.0v x1

....total = 23

would it be a good idea to use the seasonic SMPS with 23 of these kind of devices in a seperate external chassis: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Step-Up-Voltage-Regulator-buck-converter-module-12-32V-in-12-35V-out-uk/232797727727?hash=item3633d36bef%3Ag%3AowIAAOSwbEZbGWTE&_sacat=0&_nkw=Voltage+Regulators+12v+in+12v+out&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

 

?   ...if not; why not. Wouldn't this give the desired linear effect?

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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10 hours ago, Tomslin said:

Hi,

 

Maybe you can get some tips from my discussion here:

 

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1979-rebuild-and-improved-power-supply-for-a-singlepc/?hl=rebuild

 

But it was a long time ago and much has happened since, but still quite relevant.

 

Here is one thread I read at that time when I sought inspiration, thanks Nige

 

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2832

 

 

 

 

hi,

 

I'll check them out!

Many thanks!

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trung224

trung224

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18 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

my new streamer build (pc) would require the following power circuits (inc. i2s card & optical drive):

 

+3.3v x5
+5.0v x8
+12.0v x8
-3.3v x0
-5.0v x1
-12.0v x1

....total = 23

would it be a good idea to use the seasonic SMPS with 23 of these kind of devices in a seperate external chassis: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-Step-Up-Voltage-Regulator-buck-converter-module-12-32V-in-12-35V-out-uk/232797727727?hash=item3633d36bef%3Ag%3AowIAAOSwbEZbGWTE&_sacat=0&_nkw=Voltage+Regulators+12v+in+12v+out&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

 

?   ...if not; why not. Wouldn't this give the desired linear effect?

The ebay link is a DC-Dc converter, which is an SMPS itself, so you will have no gain from using them with your Seasonic PSU.

 

The LT3045 module is great, but they are all current limited. Given your requirement is quite high power, and from what I see, you don't have good background on electrical domain, my advice for you is go search around and buy a pre-made product. It will be safer and more economical

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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7 minutes ago, trung224 said:

The ebay link is a DC-Dc converter, which is an SMPS itself, so you will have no gain from using them with your Seasonic PSU.

 

The LT3045 module is great, but they are all current limited. Given your requirement is quite high power, and from what I see, you don't have good background on electrical domain, my advice for you is go search around and buy a pre-made product. It will be safer and more economical

 

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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3 minutes ago, trung224 said:

This module can only put out 1A, so with your requirement, it is not enough. 

OK cheers! not to worry!

 

there doesn't seem to be much choice so far with the LPSU out there, but I'll keep looking.

Wish I could find out the amperage for those circuits in the seasonic and the requirement of the Asus z270g?

 

best wishes.

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elan120

elan120

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Posted
10 minutes ago, the_doc735 said:

OK cheers! not to worry!

 

there doesn't seem to be much choice so far with the LPSU out there, but I'll keep looking.

Wish I could find out the amperage for those circuits in the seasonic and the requirement of the Asus z270g?

 

best wishes.

If you have not tried one of this, you might want to take a closer look.  I use this meter in lots of applications including seeing what my PC consumption is during high demand usage to see what power supply output is required.

 

http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html

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LTG2010

LTG2010

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18 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

....total = 23

You'll need less than half the rails you quoted most atx supplies have a single 12v, 5V & 3,3V which are split up to power the board and components. Its handy to have the extra 12V rail solely for the processor ( the 8 pin connector) seperate 5v rails for your ssd's and one for the optical drive, plus one for your 12S card. You are looking at 8 - 10 rails. Try Sean Jacobs at custom HiFi cables. He designs and make the supplies for Innuos. Or look at The linear solution. For a tighter budget HDplex will outperform your Seasonic. Its not just the measurements but choice of components, transformers, regulators, resistors, capacitors, etc have a sonic input HDplex use components chosen for audio. I think they have also started using LT3045's in their supplies, but you'll need to check that with them.

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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4 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

You'll need less than half the rails you quoted most atx supplies have a single 12v, 5V & 3,3V which are split up to power the board and components. Its handy to have the extra 12V rail solely for the processor ( the 8 pin connector) seperate 5v rails for your ssd's and one for the optical drive, plus one for your 12S card. You are looking at 8 - 10 rails. Try Sean Jacobs at custom HiFi cables. He designs and make the supplies for Innuos. Or look at The linear solution. For a tighter budget HDplex will outperform your Seasonic. Its not just the measurements but choice of components, transformers, regulators, resistors, capacitors, etc have a sonic input HDplex use components chosen for audio. I think they have also started using LT3045's in their supplies, but you'll need to check that with them.

ok - very good advice, I'll investigate the possibilities and see what can be achieved, thank you! B.T.W. HDPlex don't currently have any european stock i.e. 0

 

best wishes.

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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On 7/16/2018 at 5:43 AM, sandyk said:

Hi Doc

 You do need  a Linear PSU that has noise levels WAY below that of a HDPlex for best results,  I have never made any DIY gear for profit! I only use my Oppo 103 as a transport . I can't presently afford an aftermarket Linear PSU. Unfortunately, I can't help you with advice about commercial products, as I use an internal SMPS. (not linear)...

Kind Regards

Alex

 

The HDPlex ripple goes down to 2mv? So, what exactly do I need then to improve the sound quality beyond SMPS if the 2mv ripple HDPlex is not good enough?

 

Kind Regards.

Doc.

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Tomslin

Tomslin

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1 hour ago, the_doc735 said:

 

 On 7/16/2018 at 5:21 AM, sandyk said:  

You do need  a Linear PSU that has noise levels WAY below that of a HDPlex for best results.

 

Still don't know what to get for PC power supply?

Cheers!

 

Hi,

Just like you I have been searching for really good power supplies for a long time.

Finally I run my entire computer setup with batteries. With the right configuration it’s superb for the sound. IMO it's better than any LPS on the market, but of course with other problems. I want to admit that is no solution for everyone.

In your case I would go with a HD-Plex. It's enough good compared to all ATXs. Try to forget about it with noise levels, ripple etc, there are always compromises somewhere.

 

 

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the_doc735

the_doc735

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1 hour ago, Tomslin said:

 

Hi,

Just like you I have been searching for really good power supplies for a long time.

Finally I run my entire computer setup with batteries. With the right configuration it’s superb for the sound. IMO it's better than any LPS on the market, but of course with other problems. I want to admit that is no solution for everyone.

In your case I would go with a HD-Plex. It's enough good compared to all ATXs. Try to forget about it with noise levels, ripple etc, there are always compromises somewhere.

 

 

thank you for your valued observations! Many thanks! Your right - I don't want to go down the battery route. However, many electronics DIY enthusiasts say that the problem is the standard computer (pc) mainboard itself, i.e. far too many switching devices for an audiophile product on the boards themselves, and the PC has to be ditched completely in favour of a dedicated hi-fi player unit. e.g. oppo.

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LTG2010

LTG2010

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3 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

 

 On 7/16/2018 at 5:21 AM, sandyk said:  

You do need  a Linear PSU that has noise levels WAY below that of a HDPlex for best results.

I think they are about to upgrade their supplies with LT3045's it may be worth investigating that. 

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