Are DACs for Gamers? One with mobile 3.5mm o/p?

[LykanthricAura]

First of all... I am new to this. I recently started budgeting for my new gaming rig and someone mentioned going for a good soundcard or external DAC. I looked it up and it actually has advantages over the onboard sound. I am may be ...an amateur audio enthusiast (not audiophile yet, I think). I used to own an Audio Technica M20x. I loved it. I would love to invest into a good audio setup this time. I have just a few questions.

 

1) As a gamer, would having a DAC and a Studio Monitor headphones plugged into it give me the same sound impact as a say Logitech USB headset? For those SFX of that twinked shotgun or something crashing.

2) Can one find a DAC that has a 3.5mm out for mobile headset's that are Audio cum Mic on a single 3.5 plug? I can use a splitter but wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of keeping things high quality? I ask only because I have a Sony MDR XB550AP that I sometimes use as well.

3) Noob question. I imagine a 24 bit/96 khz DAC is good enough for me. Is there a good sweet-spot bitrate I should start ripping my audio CDs into m4a of to use with such a setup? I currently use approx 256 kbps variable bitrate mp3/m4a. Because what my iTunes music had been.

4) Disregarding Antlion Modmic. Are there any good uni-directional clip on mic for voice chatting one can recommend? Under $20-30.

[4est]

For gaming you might very well enjoy better audio. Better HPs for sure, and a good DAC would certainly be appreciated. One of the features with better DACs is increased dynamics and better bass. I somehow doubt you need "fidelity", but along with that comes other things as I mentioned. If you let people know your budget, you will get plenty of suggestions.

[20hertz]

Keep in mind there will be a latency issue between the image and the audio if you add a dac.

You will need to be able to delay the audio to match the image on your screen.

 

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, 20hertz said:

Keep in mind there will be a latency issue between the image and the audio if you add a dac.

You will need to be able to delay the audio to match the image on your screen.

The drivers should provide latency information to the application so it can sync things properly.

[20hertz]

"" The drivers should provide latency information to the application so it can sync things properly.""

What application? The video game? I am curious because I always have a latency problem, especially watching movies.

Fortunately I can remedy using the DSP of my speaker system.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, 20hertz said:

"" The drivers should provide latency information to the application so it can sync things properly.""

What application? The video game? I am curious because I always have a latency problem, especially watching movies.

Fortunately I can remedy using the DSP of my speaker system.

Yes, the game. Both audio and video devices vary in latencies that need to be taken into account. The drivers should provide the necessary information. Of course, they can be broken, so many applications offer a manual offset to compensate. Internal or external DAC doesn't matter, these issues are always present.

[davide256]

4 hours ago, LykanthricAura said:

First of all... I am new to this. I recently started budgeting for my new gaming rig and someone mentioned going for a good soundcard or external DAC. I looked it up and it actually has advantages over the onboard sound. I am may be ...an amateur audio enthusiast (not audiophile yet, I think). I used to own an Audio Technica M20x. I loved it. I would love to invest into a good audio setup this time. I have just a few questions.

 

1) As a gamer, would having a DAC and a Studio Monitor headphones plugged into it give me the same sound impact as a say Logitech USB headset? For those SFX of that twinked shotgun or something crashing.

2) Can one find a DAC that has a 3.5mm out for mobile headset's that are Audio cum Mic on a single 3.5 plug? I can use a splitter but wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of keeping things high quality? I ask only because I have a Sony MDR XB550AP that I sometimes use as well.

3) Noob question. I imagine a 24 bit/96 khz DAC is good enough for me. Is there a good sweet-spot bitrate I should start ripping my audio CDs into m4a of to use with such a setup? I currently use approx 256 kbps variable bitrate mp3/m4a. Because what my iTunes music had been.

4) Disregarding Antlion Modmic. Are there any good uni-directional clip on mic for voice chatting one can recommend? Under $20-30.

 

Oddly enough, I find that audio quality headphones are more enjoyable than " gamer" headphones when gaming.  My pair of Hifiman HE400's plugged into the headphone out of a Samsung gaming monitor is more enjoyable than PC soundcard or iFi Nano and preferred to the PS4 wireless headphones. If your into PvP the enhanced cues are probably a must with  sound card or gaming headphones but for single player mode a quality headphone will sound more engaging/real life.

I rarely bother to use the $2k of headphone amp/DAC gear next to the computer when gaming because its not about critical listening... if you hear the same passage twice, you have probably "died" and have far more important things on your mind, like surviving the 2nd/3rd... nth attempt to get through that point, vs focusing on the soundtrack. The microphone part is going to limit your choices, you may want to investigate this

 

https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius-series/mobius-headphone

[4est]

1 hour ago, 20hertz said:

Keep in mind there will be a latency issue between the image and the audio if you add a dac.

You will need to be able to delay the audio to match the image on your screen.

 

You mean delay the video as I understand it. Asynchronous USB buffers the audio. TBH, I hadn't thought of that. Ugh.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, 4est said:

You mean delay the video as I understand it. Asynchronous USB buffers the audio. TBH, I hadn't thought of that. Ugh.

The additional latency of a USB DAC compared to an internal sound card is only a few milliseconds. As long as audio and video are synchronised to within 10 ms or so, we adapt and don't notice any skew.

[LykanthricAura]

 

On 7/12/2018 at 3:37 AM, 20hertz said:

Keep in mind there will be a latency issue between the image and the audio if you add a dac.

You will need to be able to delay the audio to match the image on your screen.

Ok. I might actually get annoyed by something like that.

 

If it's easily fixable for ALL games I will play. It would be fine.

But I don't how one does that... delay the game image.

On 7/12/2018 at 5:00 AM, davide256 said:

https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius-series/mobius-headphone

Definitely not investing in a $400 hp.

 

On 7/12/2018 at 2:43 AM, 4est said:

If you let people know your budget, you will get plenty of suggestions.

 

I think my total budget would be around $250 for Audio setup right now. Which doesn't include speakers. Just Headphones, DAC and mic. If the headphones don't come with one. I know that's very low. But like I said.. Not an audiophile. Just looking to get some good sound.

[4est]

On 7/11/2018 at 8:16 PM, mansr said:

The additional latency of a USB DAC compared to an internal sound card is only a few milliseconds. As long as audio and video are synchronised to within 10 ms or so, we adapt and don't notice any skew.

If I were the OP I would look into the upper tiers of a Xonar PCIE cards and read some HP reviews to get an idea as to what is out there in your price range. Their sonic radar seems trick if it works well.

[davide256]

20 minutes ago, LykanthricAura said:

 

Ok. I might actually get annoyed by something like that.

 

If it's easily fixable for ALL games I will play. It would be fine.

But I don't how one does that... delay the game image.

Definitely not investing in a $400 hp.

 

 

I think my total budget would be around $250 for Audio setup right now. Which doesn't include speakers. Just Headphones, DAC and mic. If the headphones don't come with one. I know that's very low. But like I said.. Not an audiophile. Just looking to get some good sound.

Sounds like for your needs you should go here to make a choice

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-wireless-gaming-headsets/

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, 4est said:

If I were the OP I would look into the upper tiers of a Xonar PCIE cards and read some HP reviews to get an idea as to what is out there in your price range. Their sonic radar seems trick if it works well.

That's probably a good idea.

[Indigolight]

Hi

 

You can opt for a headset, but a "plain" standing microphone + headphones can do the trick as well. A lot of streamers use a Blue Yeti USB microphone. I have a Shure MV5 hooked up because it is smaller and fits under my display and sounds allmost as good, and I can take it along for recording interviews or off camera axis video audio on an idevice. The quality of the recorded audio is likely better than most gaming headsets, bar maybe (and i mean really may-be) a Sennheiser game one or zero pair. I've used a MV5 for podcasts and voiceovers in video recordings often and it sounds really good. It has different pick-up patterns. Yeti's do as well. A lot of gamers us a "modmic," you seem to know about it... Look up Hardwarecanuck's Youtube video's for a use case similar to yours.

 

I use an audioengine D1 dac + that MV5 when I game, and it's great... I know that Burson makes a product called "play" that is tailored to high-end gaming audio: https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/play/. It fits in a computer bay if you wish, and has a mic passthrough although on a different jack. It is also has a very highly regarded headphone amp, but it is about 3x your budget I think.

 

Don't worry about audio / video out of sync, it is not a thing, from experience.

 

So, for your numbered questions:

 

1) yes. look up an audioquest Dragonfly Black for a good 100 euro/dollar dac that will give you much more bass impact, and clearer mids and highs. Extend your budget to 200 euro for a DAC and you get more connectivity, features, RCA output for speakers... Some headphones give you more base compared to others V-Moda's come to mind. Closed ones tend to be bass heavier, open ones generally give you more sense of being in your game, at the expense of some bass...

 

2) Never came across that on external dac's You might find one from ASUS or the likes. But anything branded "gaming" is suspicious in my book, even for gaming :). Use either a splitter, a seperate modmic-like thing attached to your headphones or your clothes or an usb mic on your desk.

 

3) yup 24/96 is all you need to start with. Try and listen to a CD or FLAC/ALAC (16/44.1) vs the same track on MP3 or AAC and notice the vast difference between the two. Try out Tidal HiFi vs Spotify/Apple Music and notice the VAST difference in quality. You haven't even gone beyond 16/44.1 at that point. For 24/96 you need to buy specific high res audio files, or get a (software) player that can unfold MQA files on Tidal Hifi (like the Tidal native app, or Roon)... An external dac makes a great difference on mp3/CD quality allready.

 

4) Have you considered lavalier mics? You clip em onto you, instead of your headset. Check out Curtis Judd for advice on external mics on Youtube... There's an indie one called "giant squid" that is apparently really good...

 

Oh and on a last note: stop buying AAC's from apple now, or you'll end up buying it all again in lossless later... You will want to do that after you experience the differences in sound quality in lossy vs lossless. They cost the same...

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

[GUTB]

A good DAC will definitely help game immersion due to the much better clarity of a DAC. Although I would caution against toy USB stick and little brick DACs — they may offer great clarity at good price points, they won;t offer as good dynamic performance — try to stick to a real desktop DAC with a serious power supply and output circuitry.

 

Also, unless you’re looking at a DAC with a very good amp circuit built in, you’ll want a separate amp that can do the DAC justice. If you pair a quality DAC with a well-matched amp, the improvement will be enormous.

[4est]

9 minutes ago, GUTB said:

A good DAC will definitely help game immersion due to the much better clarity of a DAC. Although I would caution against toy USB stick and little brick DACs — they may offer great clarity at good price points, they won;t offer as good dynamic performance — try to stick to a real desktop DAC with a serious power supply and output circuitry.

 

Also, unless you’re looking at a DAC with a very good amp circuit built in, you’ll want a separate amp that can do the DAC justice. If you pair a quality DAC with a well-matched amp, the improvement will be enormous.

The OP's budget is $250 for HP, Mic and DAC.

[GUTB]

Just now, 4est said:

The OP's budget is $250 for HP, Mic and DAC.

 

That’s much too low. If he adds a 0 to that number than he can accomplish some great things. $250 is about the bare minimum for mid-fi headphones.

[LykanthricAura]

7 hours ago, davide256 said:

Sounds like for your needs you should go here to make a choice

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-wireless-gaming-headsets/

I don't think I want a Wireless hp option. But if they are good. I will look into it

 

5 hours ago, Indigolight said:

Some headphones give you more base compared to others V-Moda's come to mind

 

V-Moda. I did look into those as they come with a optional attachable Boom mic. Crossfade M-100 & the BoomPro sound like a good option. 

 

8 hours ago, 4est said:

If I were the OP I would look into the upper tiers of a Xonar PCIE

 

If we're talking PCIe cards. Any thoughts on the range by Creative Labs?

The "Soundblaster Z" it comes with a microphone which leaves me to only have to choose a good headphone.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-z#specs

And they also have a DAC...although it's questionable. In it's price range.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-digital-music-premium-hd

 

5 hours ago, GUTB said:

That’s much too low. If he adds a 0 to that number than he can accomplish some great things. $250 is about the bare minimum for mid-fi headphones.

 

I was afraid of that. My budget is actually $500. I was taking into account the Tax and Import duty that might apply. For eg. the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 costs around $330 in India vs. the $250 in US.

Shiit Fulla 2 Costs $150

But not everything is like that..Some brands have their own ...bases.. here. Audio Technica ATH-M50x are for $145. Which is same as US price. Beyerdynamic - DT 770 PRO is for $130. CHEAPER than US

 

And some don't have too much Tax like the Audeze - Mobius (I do love the idea of owning these) are fo $420 That's $21 extra. Compared to the whooping $80 on the VModa.

 

[4est]

4 minutes ago, LykanthricAura said:

 

If we're talking PCIe cards. Any thoughts on the range by Creative Labs?

The "Soundblaster Z" it comes with a microphone which leaves me to only have to choose a good headphone.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-z#specs

And they also have a DAC...although it's questionable. In it's price range.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-digital-music-premium-hd

 

 

 

I wouldn't base my sound card choice solely on if it has a free microphone or not. I do not really know about any of these. I was merely suggesting a more game oriented approach if that is your primary use. The one I suggested had extra software for gaming. This one a free mic. There are bound to be other choices as well. I think I'd also look for a gamer headset. It sorta just makes sense to me. Audiophile is a smaller niche than gaming with less bang for buck. It would be different if you were saying I am an audiophile first, but want to game with it.

[rando]

You probably have no interest in mic quality unless you are streaming.  Beyond usability and reasonably understandable output of whatsoever linguistic communication you deem necessary during a high paced gaming session.

 

Take a look at something like this and accept the limitation of a gaming headset?

[LykanthricAura]

I do stream and I make audio books for a small audience. So far I have been using a Logitech headset that has a fairly decent mic. But it pics up the noise around me. I want a unidirection mic that can block out the sound of anything but my voice.

 

I have tried post-recording Noise cancellation or using threshold filters to let only a certain db range of sound pass through ...but it ends up making me sound a little like a robot. Monotonous. I am willing to spend upto $50 on a good mic. As the streaming/Audio book is just a hobby and not a means of any income.