Audioengine D1 Vs Dragonfly black (DAC only) ESS 9010 Vs. AK4396

[Phonautograph]

I am only interested for using both of them as an alternative to my PC's built in soundcard and use them as a source for my modest (5.5" Edifier s2000v internaly amped by LM3886) stereo bookshelf monitors , and avoid the hastle of dedicated PCI-E soundcards drivers and noise from internal pc electronics 
All the reviews I've seen for the dragonfly and D1 compare the amped output for the D1 (OPA2134) with the dragonfly (where the dragonfly provides better overall performance) , But I haven't seen a comparison against the pre amp output (which would be used with monitors) of the D1 ( AK4396) vs the output of the dragonfly (ESS9010)

Which would be better for the specified use ? and the options where i live are very limited i can only buy used equipment and there isn't other options within my budget available in my country 

[Panelhead]

  I like the AK4396 when implemented properly. It is very nice and can deliver 192K/24 data. 

  I prefer AKM to ESS. But have not listened to the latest 32 bit versions. Both companies have higher spec chips than the -9018 and 4413 in your units.

 

 

[Ron Scubadiver]

Audioengine D1 puts out 2V, DF black, much less. 

[Phonautograph]

On 7/10/2018 at 1:38 AM, Ron Scubadiver said:

Audioengine D1 puts out 2V, DF black, much less. 

i think voltages only important when dealing with impedence  (ohms) i am not interested in the devices ability to drive headphones with certain impedence levels 

 

On 7/10/2018 at 1:02 AM, Panelhead said:

  I like the AK4396 when implemented properly. It is very nice and can deliver 192K/24 data. 

  I prefer AKM to ESS. But have not listened to the latest 32 bit versions. Both companies have higher spec chips than the -9018 and 4413 in your units.

 

 

i asked a user of dragonfly red (9016)  he said it sounded better than the d1 

[Ron Scubadiver]

On 7/11/2018 at 4:57 AM, Phonautograph said:

 

 

i asked a user of dragonfly red (9016)  he said it sounded better than the d1 

The DF Red is not a DF black.  At $200, unless you need miniaturization I would look at the ifi idsd nano black.  It does more formats and DSD.  

[Indigolight]

On 7/11/2018 at 12:57 PM, Phonautograph said:

i asked a user of dragonfly red (9016)  he said it sounded better than the d1 

 

And that is by a wide margin in terms of sounstage and especially instrument separation. Bass is tighter and maybe a tad deeper as well. I compare them both every day. 

 

The reason why I still use my (currently defective - skips on higher bitrates) D1 is because it is a hell of a lot more convenient as a PC soundcard in everyting except a Roon Endpoint over the network or mobile / on the go use on a macbook pro with TB3 ports only. I use my D1 with headphones more than my DF Red. I use the D1 over USB so it is limited to 24/96 just like the DF. You need S/PDIF for 24/192 and that will shut off the USB data signal so you can't hook up 2 sources without switching cables every time. The few Tidal songs that are 24/192 MQA don't bother me. I own only up to 24/96 music and no DSD.

 

I've had a D1 for over 2 years now and I really enjoyed it. I still do. For Youtube, casual background music, even Gaming etc it is great and really enjoyable...  It's not that the D1 is bad and the DF good. The D1 is also really good, but the DF is a bit more revealing, and a bit tighter if you have high res material that contains enough detail in the first place. The D1 is pretty awesome as a preamp. If I had just 200 euro right now, and no DAC, and no perspective to be able to upgrade them in the near future. I would likely buy the D1 again over the DF because it is way more convenient, for a slight hit in SQ, under the condition both are only used in a stationary situation.

 

I am looking for a replacement of both (switching inputs, higher SQ, Digital + Analog volume control, RCA outs and headphone amp) and that is because switching to just the DF Red I have, wouldn't cut it for me... (I use powerd AE A5+'s and a Nightowl Carbon with my DAC's). I did have to increase my budget considerably to get some options.

 

If you would buy the D1, I'm quite sure you would be very happy with it...

 

 

[audiobomber]

Check out the Sabaj DA2 for the  about the same cost as a DF Black. Plays virtually any PCM or DSD file and reportedly better SQ than a DF Red. I use one and am very impressed with the sound at this price.

 

PS The  Sabaj Da2 is exactly the same as an SMSL Idea. I believe Sabaj is the manufacturer, SMSL is a distributor, therefore slightly higher priced.

 

http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=73

[davide256]

Its a  bad idea to purchase any  DAC that is powered from a PC or microcomputer. The limitations are multiple.  @Ron Scubadiver  , the suggestion of Nano iDSD is sound, its a USB amp that allows you to choose whether it runs off internal battery or draws power over USB and you can use it as an asynch USB converter to any other DAC coax input. I personally preferred the sound of the iFi Nano to the iFi Micro, less detailed but harmonically more accurate. And because it had its own battery power it could be used with smartphones.

[miguelito]

On 7/9/2018 at 2:06 PM, Phonautograph said:

I am only interested for using both of them as an alternative to my PC's built in soundcard and use them as a source for my modest (5.5" Edifier s2000v internaly amped by LM3886) stereo bookshelf monitors , and avoid the hastle of dedicated PCI-E soundcards drivers and noise from internal pc electronics 
All the reviews I've seen for the dragonfly and D1 compare the amped output for the D1 (OPA2134) with the dragonfly (where the dragonfly provides better overall performance) , But I haven't seen a comparison against the pre amp output (which would be used with monitors) of the D1 ( AK4396) vs the output of the dragonfly (ESS9010)

Which would be better for the specified use ? and the options where i live are very limited i can only buy used equipment and there isn't other options within my budget available in my country 

For your particular application, I would surmise there is little difference between the two in terms of sound quality.

 

Dragonfly advantages:

- Works with iPhone, smaller, can use it for that if you want

- Volume is software driven - much better for a computer setup like yours, you have to deal with multiple volume controls otherwise

- Can render MQA (feature or bug? I am not committing)

D1 advantages:

- Optical and USB in

- Both pre out and headphone out - convenient on the desktop

- 192/24 (DF does 96/24)

 

For a strictly desktop application, I would go with the D1 since you can drive the speakers and if you want seamlessly use headphones.

 

[Indigolight]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Its a  bad idea to purchase any  DAC that is powered from a PC or microcomputer. The limitations are multiple.  @Ron Scubadiver  , the suggestion of Nano iDSD is sound, its a USB amp that allows you to choose whether it runs off internal battery or draws power over USB and you can use it as an asynch USB converter to any other DAC coax input. I personally preferred the sound of the iFi Nano to the iFi Micro, less detailed but harmonically more accurate. And because it had its own battery power it could be used with smartphones.

 

You can power a D1 from a different (linear) powersource, if you use the Toslink port for data. 

[davide256]

47 minutes ago, Indigolight said:

 

You can power a D1 from a different (linear) powersource, if you use the Toslink port for data. 

Toslink is an old spec, doesn't have the timing advantages of asynch USB. It only sounds good if source and DAC are very high quality... this is entry level gear. And I can't see

anyone banding an Audioengine DAC to their phone or DAP.. iFI DAC's are configured to make that easy.

[Indigolight]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

Toslink is an old spec, doesn't have the timing advantages of asynch USB. It only sounds good if source and DAC are very high quality... this is entry level gear. And I can't see

anyone banding an Audioengine DAC to their phone or DAP.. iFI DAC's are configured to make that easy.

 

A D1 only gets 24/192 over toslink, USB only goes up to 24/96. 

 

I also use it on USB (+ a jitterbug).

[Phonautograph]

On 7/15/2018 at 3:51 PM, miguelito said:

For your particular application, I would surmise there is little difference between the two in terms of sound quality.

 

Dragonfly advantages:

- Works with iPhone, smaller, can use it for that if you want

- Volume is software driven - much better for a computer setup like yours, you have to deal with multiple volume controls otherwise

- Can render MQA (feature or bug? I am not committing)

D1 advantages:

- Optical and USB in

- Both pre out and headphone out - convenient on the desktop

- 192/24 (DF does 96/24)

 

For a strictly desktop application, I would go with the D1 since you can drive the speakers and if you want seamlessly use headphones.

 

thanks for the advice , love your system setup btw 

[Ron Scubadiver]

On 7/15/2018 at 8:24 AM, davide256 said:

Its a  bad idea to purchase any  DAC that is powered from a PC or microcomputer. The limitations are multiple. 

I think you are going a bit too far there.  Some computers have quieter USB ports than others, and some DAC's have better power filtering than others.