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PS Audio DirectStream USB input sounds better than Bridge II?


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 I am surprised that I am getting decidedly better sound quality from the USB input on my DS dac. I have hundreds of hour of burn-in with music and burn-in tones from Track 8 of the Chesky Test and Burn-in CD using both the USB and Bridge inputs.

 

I am using Uptone Audio’s USB ISO Regen and Ultracap LPS-1 galvanic isolation power supply, which has greatly improved the performance of USB. At worst I would have expected the Bridge II to sound equally good, but it is clearly not to my ears. Less bass, thinner, harsher high frequencies. The Bridge II volume setting needs to be lowered to 94 to equal to spl of the USB input.

 

I am running JRiver MC 24, so all variables may not be the same because JRiver requires use of DLNA to play to the Bridge II, while the USB connection is direct.

 

Is anyone else getting the same results, or the opposite?

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The PS Audio DS does not need any “cleaning” devices for its USB input. It’s one of the best engineered DACs out there. It does have a $6K price tag for a new one. 

 

You maybe interested in this ASR measurements of the ISO:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-iso-regen-review-and-measurements.1829/

 

For me the moral of the story is that there is a price-point for DACs, above which “USB cleanliness” is expected. 

 

Let every eye ear negotiate for itself and trust no agent. (Shakespeare)

The things that we love tell us what we are. (Aquinas)

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14 minutes ago, duxservit said:

The PS Audio DS does not need any “cleaning” devices for its USB input. It’s one of the best engineered DACs out there. It does have a $6K price tag for a new one. 

 

You maybe interested in this ASR measurements of the ISO:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-iso-regen-review-and-measurements.1829/

 

For me the moral of the story is that there is a price-point for DACs, above which “USB cleanliness” is expected. 

 

 

Need to disagree here. There's a difference between 'does not need" and "can be improved by" 

 

I'm a huge fan of PS Audio and love my Directstream. But I've defo found it can be improved by feeding it a better signal. The ISO Regen, the SU-1, the TX-USBultra, better servers and even better USB or ethernet cables can all make a difference. 

 

A well engineered DAC is great and the DS definitely qualifies. But its naive to think DAC engineering alone renders (sic) the source/path irrelevant. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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1 minute ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Need to disagree here. There's a difference between 'does not need" and "can be improved by" 

 

I'm a huge fan of PS Audio and love my Directstream. But I've defo found it can be improved by feeding it a better signal. The ISO Regen, the SU-1, the TX-USBultra, better servers and even better USB or ethernet cables can all make a difference. 

 

A well engineered DAC is great and the DS definitely qualifies. But its naive to think DAC engineering alone renders (sic) the source/path irrelevant. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

 

That’s fine.

 

I have the DS and ISO. For my ears the ISO didn’t make a difference to my DS, so I stopped using it. 

Let every eye ear negotiate for itself and trust no agent. (Shakespeare)

The things that we love tell us what we are. (Aquinas)

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I think a lot of this stuff is system dependent. 

 

I found the ISO Regen added a bit. But that admittedly was to a chain involving the Singxer SU-1. So not a direct comparison. 

 

I found the TX-USBultra added way more than the ISO Regen & SU-1. 

 

But the number of factors influencing this means its very much YMMV. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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16 hours ago, audiojerry said:

 I am running JRiver MC 24, so all variables may not be the same because JRiver requires use of DLNA to play to the Bridge II, while the USB connection is direct.

 

Indeed, though all variables may not be the same due to how you are describing the PSA Bridge II network streaming audio from the JRiver Media Center via UPnP/DLNA.

 

There are actually 3 possibilities, depending on how you've configured JRiver for UPnP/DLNA:

- JRiver decodes each audio file in the playlist and the resulting bit perfect LPCM audio signal of each audio file is what is streamed over the network by the Bridge II, either as a discrete raw LPCM stream or as a discrete WAV file stream (JRiver config dependent);

 

- JRiver decodes each audio file in the playlist, then uses its audio engine to apply some DSP (JRiver config dependent) and the resulting non-bit perfect LPCM audio signal of each audio file is what is streamed over the network by the Bridge II, either as a discrete raw LPCM stream or as a discrete WAV file stream (JRiver config dependent);

 

- JRiver does not decode the audio files in the playlist and each audio file is what is streamed over the network by the Bridge II. So in this case the Bridge II itself decodes the original audio files, ie, the Bridge II (and not JRiver) is the audio file player.

 

Question is, which of these scenarios are you using, ie, how exactly have you configured JRiver MC for UPnP/DLNA?

 

 

BTW, some would describe the Bridge II itself playing the audio files and outputting the resulting digital audio signal to its internally connected DirectSream DAC as a more direct connection, than using an external player (like JRiver on a computer) connected to the DirectStream DAC by a USB connection.

 

-

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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4 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Indeed, though all variables may not be the same due to how you are describing the PSA Bridge II network streaming audio from the JRiver Media Center via UPnP/DLNA.............Question is, which of these scenarios are you using, ie, how exactly have you configured JRiver MC for UPnP/DLNA?

 

I did some additional testing after reviewing your helpful reply. Your comments reinforced my thinking that I might not have set JRiver correctly, so I went back into JRiver DLNA server settings. Changing the output mode from “Original” to “Specified output format only when necessary”, which allowed me to access the DSP studio and set the DSP output settings to match what I had for the USB input.

 

And Eureka! both USB and Bridge II sound so much alike that I can’t hear a difference, and the both sound fantastic! SPL output levels for both were also now equal.

 

Now it looks like I may not need my ISO Regen and LPS-1. Anyone interested?  But maybe I should wait for Uptone's new EtherRegen. 

 

Thanks for the help!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Glad you sorted it out. In my system the Bridge II (as a Roon endpoint) is noticeably superior to the USB input, using either an Auralic Aries (Femto) or a SOtM trifecta for the USB signal.

 

If it wasn't to actually preferring my Lampi B7 for music playback overall, I wouldn't have bothered with the SOtM units, and stuck with the simplicity of ethernet straight into the DS.

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/13/2018 at 5:48 PM, BigAlMc said:

 

Need to disagree here. There's a difference between 'does not need" and "can be improved by" 

 

I'm a huge fan of PS Audio and love my Directstream. But I've defo found it can be improved by feeding it a better signal. The ISO Regen, the SU-1, the TX-USBultra, better servers and even better USB or ethernet cables can all make a difference. 

 

A well engineered DAC is great and the DS definitely qualifies. But its naive to think DAC engineering alone renders (sic) the source/path irrelevant. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

What Ethernet cable would you recommend? 

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On 8/27/2018 at 2:23 AM, Latenight said:

What Ethernet cable would you recommend? 

 

Hi @Latenight,

 

Sorry mate - missed this question.

 

Moving target to be honest. I'm currently using a Sablon which is very nicely made and gets rave reviews. However as per this post I just ordered the JSSG360 from Ghent Audio as I want to see if that beats it.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=871948

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

 

 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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  • 2 weeks later...

I did an interesting experiment two nights ago while waiting for the hurricane.  I used the Allo USBridge and and the Bridge II via Ethernet on the DS.  I grouped the zones together so they are playing the same track and just toggled between them and had volume leveling on too.  There is NO sonic difference between them that I could detect regardless of the music I played.  

W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs

 

Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos

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It has been a while but when I first got my DS Sr w/ Bridge II last December I went through a period of comparing Bridge II to my ultraRendu-LPS1>USB in OpenHome/Lumin app environment.

 

As I recall the ultraRendu USB was better than the Bridge II primarily with regards to timbre and somewhat with the soundstage. So that is what I stayed with.

 

Then I introduced Audirvana+ into the mix with a stand alone networked attached mac mini and the rest is history. I never went back to OH/Lumin.

 

Today I use the BridgeII for my Spotify Premium account and the ultraRendu for A+ and NAS. I was a Tidal subscriber for many years but gave up on that several months ago. The BridgeII is very good regardless and I could easily live with just the Bridge. But with A+ and BridgeII not being compatible I've given up making comparisons. 

 

I do know that the ultraRendu>USB and A+ and the DS Sr have provided me with more musical enjoyment that I ever thought possible. As others have pointed out YMMV depending on system configurations and software used. I don't think a blanket statement or definitive judgement can be made (i.e., "USB is better than BridgeII")

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, diecaster said:

@rodrigaj

 

If you have not done so already, remove the Bridge II card from the DirectStream if you are not using it. This will reduce internally generated noise even more and the DAC will sound better.

Yes, I've done that but difference did not matter to me. I'll readily admit to losing interest when doing comparisons. You are probably correct that the DAC will sound better, just not enough to make a difference for me.

 

So I put it back in and use it for Spotify. I'm lazy, so rather than going to the Sonicorbiter web page each time I want to listen to Spotify, I listen to it through the BridgeII and switch back to the USB/uR for my NAS.

 

Also...I'm an ESD nutcase having worked as a semiconductor test engineer for 15 years for Motorola. The BridgeII insertion and storage is an accident waiting to happen. That board, even in a ESD bag and even with a grounding strap is not a trivial matter. Gate arrays are exceptionally prone to ESD damage.

 

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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