The Computer Audiophile Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I'm starting this topic because I noticed a few people saying they aren't able to use streaming services because of such slow internet service. Then I noticed others using interesting options that I haven't tested because the need isn't there, but I'd love to know more and I'm sure many people would as well. Thus, @esldude can you start this one off by explaining what you are doing with the long range wireless etc...? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 You can have all the local bandwidth in the world, won't help you if the "on-ramp" from your local provider to "Rest Of World" is undersized and congested. Conversely if you live in DC, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle or New York, your provider is sitting at the "big data" Internet crossroads between carriers, take no excuses. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted June 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2018 Yes I will put in a some hopefully useful info. Where I live is only old DSL service that only sometimes hits 5 or near 6 mbps. The network where I live is overloaded and during busy times you'll maybe get 1 mbps service and it can be glitchy. I've gotten a couple of Ubiquiti brand wireless devices to connect to someone with excellent 100 mbps internet. https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/litebeam-ac-gen2/ https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV/ref=sr_1_10?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1528754722&sr=1-10&keywords=ubiquiti This is a LiteBeam 5AC Gen 2. It works at 5 gigahertz which is legally allowed without license in all countries of the world. The unit you see is 14 inches wide and 10 inches tall. They generally can be had below $70 each. They can scan for 5 ghz wifi, but actually use a proprietary format to talk to each other. The Gen 1 could work on 5 ghz wifi or the proprietary version. The rear has an integral poll mount made into it. You connect the LiteBeam to a router over ethernet. The end with good internet can then allow access to the to the 2nd LiteBeam which connects to feed a router at the distant end. Giving the distant location access to the internet for multiple devices via that router. These connections can be quite reliable and fast up to several miles. Some have used them at 12 miles though the connection is slower at that range. At 8 miles and less you'll usually get 50 mbps or better. You can get up to 400 mbps. I've gotten that at one mile. So there are people with good internet about a mile from me. I ask if they'll allow me to put up this device and agree to pay for part of their bill. You can manage this connection extensively though you may need to learn a bit about it. You could throttle your end if the supplier on the other end is afraid you'll use up all of the internet speed. Setting up the device isn't too tricky, but not quite straightforward for most people. The Ubiquiti forums could be more friendly as they don't suffer foolish questions well. But there are extensive youtube videos on pretty much any aspect you may wish to know. And the forums do have helpful people on them that are very knowledgeable. Just do a little reading and searching for similar questions before asking your own. Other things worth knowing. These are powered via ethernet cable. POE it is called. So you don't need direct access to a wall plug near the device. Simply plug in the POE supply near the router and the device is powered even if you are running ethernet cable long distances. The device has a built in wifi chip so you can access the device using your phone via an app. So even if you put it up on a pole or the roof of your house you can make changes to it without needing a computer. The wifi is active for I think 15 minutes after power up. You also can of course access the device over the local network via ethernet. A computer can do this via a web browser window if you put in the address of the device. You have passwords to set to restrict access. The big thing to know. These need to be line of sight. They actually will work thru some light vegetation at shorter distances, but work best if you have a clean line of sight. They do make similar devices on the 2.4 ghz band which works better with light vegetation. They are larger and the 2.4 ghz band is pretty heavily populated in most places. PtP Point to Point. You create a network link between two points. They do have to be aimed at each other. That is a bit tricky if only going a few hundred feet, not so bad at longer ranges. And for shorter distances you have control to turn down the power so as not to interfere with others. PtMP. Point to Multi-point. Another device Ubiquiti makes is called a sector. It puts out a signal over 120 degree angle. It can serve as an access point for multiple devices. Say a generous soul across the valley has fiber and agrees to share his 1000 mbps internet with several people. He could put up this sector, and several distant people could connect to it with the LiteBeam devices I have shown above. https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LiteBeam-802-11ac-built-Degree/dp/B019M0KK44/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528754810&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+sector The DSL in my area isn't just bad, they don't let you connect. I purchased my house, was told 24 meg U-verse was available, but they didn't have it here as it turns out. Plus once the previous owners disconnected they'll no longer allow me to get the DSL that is in the area. The way I get it is by connecting to a relative a few hundred feet away in the same neighborhood. Ubiquiti makes a number of devices. To make the short connection above I use a couple of Nanostations. They are on 2.4 ghz and I'm using them thru walls on both ends, but they give me 150 mbps connection between these two points. Line of sight they are capable of working for a half mile or more. I think this was a rambling description, but many people aren't aware of these devices at these affordable prices. You need a connection outside in a workshop a few hundred feet away easy to do. Some people have been told the local ISP will provide service at the end of a long driveway, but want thousands to run the service to the home. These are a way to make that work inexpensively. If someone a few miles away can provide internet you don't have, this will do it. There are a few details to learn I'm leaving out. Can't claim to be an expert, but I've been able to get this work fine. PeterG and The Computer Audiophile 2 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
esldude Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 https://link.ubnt.com/ This is a web based bit of very useful software. You can select end points and get a view if line of sight is possible. Get an estimate of connection speed, select which gear you are using etc. etc. You can pick a location vary antenna height and see which areas will get service. It'll make sense if you mess about with it some. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 Excellent @esldude! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
esldude Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I also have the luck of very weak cell service where I live. I can make calls if outdoors, and sometimes get a little slow data. Indoors calls are a maybe next to a couple large windows. Data pretty much doesn't happen indoors. So I use a WeBoost cellphone booster. WE is Wilson electronics who made the quality antennas for CB radios for so long. I have this unit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RHMFQSA/ref=psdc_2407782011_t1_B016ASWEMM A small directional antenna the size of a book goes outside and connects to the booster amp indoors via some RG6 coax. The two devices need to be at least 75 feet apart. It takes in the cell signal outdoors and amplifies it cleanly, then rebroadcasts it over a small antenna indoors. It also takes in my cell phone signal, cleanly amplifies it and broadcasts the stronger signal outdoors to the cell tower. Over about half the interior of my house I get good solid connections for data. The data is faster the closer I am to the indoor antenna. Phone calls work anywhere in the house. My phone service allows hotspotting so I can provide wifi to other devices. With the phone located a few feet from the indoor booster antenna I typically manage about 20-25 mbps. This could provide internet if needed. The data cost can be high depending upon your phone plan of course. So I only use it as a backup or when I need a fast connection for sending some large file. It will do video streaming just fine, but considering data cost over cell connections I could buy a ticket and drive to the theater cheaper. This device works with all carriers and for 3G or 4G LTE signals. The lights on the front can be various colors indicating various conditions from too strong a signal or too weak or interference from the indoor and outdoor devices being too close. Please note you do need a signal to amplify. If your location has zero signal to work with this does no good. Also the stronger your outdoor signal the stronger your indoor signal will be and the further from the indoor antenna your device will work. Network Cell Info Lite is a very good Android app to check your signal strength. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite If your outdoor signal strength is -120 db or better this device will do you some good. If it is less than -120 db this probably will not work. My signal fluctuates around -115 db to -110 db for the most part. And this allows me to go from no data to the mid 20 meg connection rates. My indoor signal strength is around -80 db close to the indoor antenna. You also might get a stronger signal if you can mount the outdoor part higher like on the peak of your roof for instance. (Though perversely at my location at least up to 24 feet the signal wasn't a bit better) If you were working in a metal building that tends to block cell signals, even though outdoors signals are strong, this is a terrific device. It'll highly amplify the strong signal and you'll get a very strong signal re-broadcast indoors. The Computer Audiophile 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Not exactly on topic, but maybe will help someone. Reliability of my wi-fi connection went from garbage to golden after I supplemented my internet service provider's modem/router with a TP-Link Archer C9 router. The modem no longer broadcasts, it is set up to transceive internet only, connected via ethernet cable to the router. My NAS connects to the router via dual Ethernet cables, and the rest of the house via wi-fi. SInce I live in a house with a ferrous/concrete slab between the first and second floor, I also had to add an extender for the main floor. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Dr Tone Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Uniden LTE Booster with a Bell (Canada) provided LTE modem. The only other option is Satellite but the latency is brutal. $60/mo for 5GB of data. ... $150/mo for 50GB of data. It costs an arm and a leg in Windows and iOS updates alone never mind streaming anything. Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas Link to comment
JohnSwenson Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I'm using something similar from TP-Link, the CPE210 to connect my new shop building to the house network. They are $40 at Amazon. You can either use just one at the house, but you have to be careful about the beam spread, it wouldn't cover the whole shop. So I used two, one at the house and one for the shop, with traditional switch and WAP in the shop. I didn't even need to put them outside, they worked fine going from on to the other through two walls. My sister in law lives in rural Texas with no wired infrastucture at all, they get internet over fixed LTE network from a tower about 20 miles away, it works very well and not very expensive. Of course you have to have such a carrier in your area. John S. Link to comment
esldude Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said: I'm using something similar from TP-Link, the CPE210 to connect my new shop building to the house network. They are $40 at Amazon. You can either use just one at the house, but you have to be careful about the beam spread, it wouldn't cover the whole shop. So I used two, one at the house and one for the shop, with traditional switch and WAP in the shop. I didn't even need to put them outside, they worked fine going from on to the other through two walls. My sister in law lives in rural Texas with no wired infrastucture at all, they get internet over fixed LTE network from a tower about 20 miles away, it works very well and not very expensive. Of course you have to have such a carrier in your area. John S. Yes, those are similar to the Ubiquiti Nanostations. Excellent for purposes like yours. The makers claim these will do 5 km connections, and they might if a good line of site and you site this a little off the ground to clear out the fresnel zone. Details like that are important to get max distance out of these. I've connected a couple of the Nanostations at 1 mile just testing them. Does you sister have LTE or is it just a Wisp using the LTE tower? I'd planned to start a community Wisp where I live. There are rumblings from Charter that they will bring service to this area middle of next year. So I'll wait and see. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 esl, can you describe where you live in some general terms? if not rural, then I cannot figure out why a rel. dense urban area would not have high speed connections (and those are my only 2 guesses) Link to comment
esldude Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Ralf11 said: esl, can you describe where you live in some general terms? if not rural, then I cannot figure out why a rel. dense urban area would not have high speed connections (and those are my only 2 guesses) https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/internet-nightmare-att-sells-broadband-to-your-neighbors-but-not-to-you/ https://www.komando.com/happening-now/312103/your-neighbors-get-high-speed-internet-but-you-dont/all https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/man-builds-house-then-finds-out-cable-internet-will-cost-117000/ My situation is basically the one in the first link above. ISPs were given money to provide internet by the gov't in the early 2000's. They did though not up to promises. So they are basically waiting for those areas to die off as customers. I can't see the benefit to them really. You hear about the same crazy approach in these areas. My neighborhood has 64 upper middle class homes of 12 years age or less. Across the main road is one with over 200 homes the same way. There is DSL where I am, and nothing across the road. You can get it 2 miles or less in any direction. In fact I can stand on a corner 2 blocks away and see an area with good internet about 1/2 mile away. I live in what I'd call an outer suburban area. See the other thing is there are areas further on out that are rural and have great internet. A friend lives ten miles further out where you begin to only see a house now and then. Xfinity is there on that road for 30 miles serving very few customers. Probably no more in that distance than the group here where I live over a few blocks. Another grant to ATT and others has caused ATT to tunnel under a river and provide internet of good quality to a fishing camp a friend has a weekend house on. They did this running the service from far away for 6 houses. But since they were paid once for where I live, they aren't going to get paid for that again. So they ignore it. If someone cancels service, moves or dies, they'll tell you there are no open slots in the DSLAM for the area. Yet ATT sends me one or two envelopes trying to get me to sign up for fast internet and TV which they won't provide here about once or twice a week. In two years I've gotten more than 150 such bits of junk mail. Twice I've called to get it. They assure me it is available. Even though I tell them my doubts. They make an appt about two weeks later to install it. The day before they call and say there are no open slots in the hardware and sorry, but we can't provide service. The second time I did it was to watch for the tech guy to come check for connections. Yes, even though this is a sham they send a guy out to check for openings. Two days prior to the appt. I met him at the box holding their gear (I'm the second house from it). Watched him open it up, look at a list and say no open slots (even though I was looking at them). He admitted he wished they'd just put something in. The open slots are held in case active slots quit working they can be switched over to these spares. Or so the tale is. You can read comments to the articles. This story is repeated in hundreds of areas. It is done consistently this way in some areas at least by ATT. Now this area received DSL early, then ATT stopped expanding for some reason. So the areas with service are the big three cable companies all around where I live. I guess the one isolated area isn't worth their bother. I and others have contacted the cable companies and gotten nowhere. Finally, someone moved here with a son that works for Charter (which is the one I can see 1/2 mile away). Apparently, once he put us in touch with the proper person there, they wonder why no one has moved in here either. And are saying they will do so middle of next year. It is crazy. Maybe it makes sense to someone. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
james45974 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, esldude said: It is crazy. Maybe it makes sense to someone. Makes sense when you chalk it up to money and greed. Like I have said before, they rush to give the "haves" the latest and greatest while the "have nots" who would probably be happy with the old cast off technology from the "haves" get nothing Jim Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 but if you look at just his speakers, he seems to be well within the "haves" category it seems there is a market, so something is keeping others out of that market... Link to comment
davide256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, esldude said: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/internet-nightmare-att-sells-broadband-to-your-neighbors-but-not-to-you/ https://www.komando.com/happening-now/312103/your-neighbors-get-high-speed-internet-but-you-dont/all https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/man-builds-house-then-finds-out-cable-internet-will-cost-117000/ My situation is basically the one in the first link above. ISPs were given money to provide internet by the gov't in the early 2000's. They did though not up to promises. So they are basically waiting for those areas to die off as customers. I can't see the benefit to them really. You hear about the same crazy approach in these areas. My neighborhood has 64 upper middle class homes of 12 years age or less. Across the main road is one with over 200 homes the same way. There is DSL where I am, and nothing across the road. You can get it 2 miles or less in any direction. In fact I can stand on a corner 2 blocks away and see an area with good internet about 1/2 mile away. I live in what I'd call an outer suburban area. See the other thing is there are areas further on out that are rural and have great internet. A friend lives ten miles further out where you begin to only see a house now and then. Xfinity is there on that road for 30 miles serving very few customers. Probably no more in that distance than the group here where I live over a few blocks. Another grant to ATT and others has caused ATT to tunnel under a river and provide internet of good quality to a fishing camp a friend has a weekend house on. They did this running the service from far away for 6 houses. But since they were paid once for where I live, they aren't going to get paid for that again. So they ignore it. If someone cancels service, moves or dies, they'll tell you there are no open slots in the DSLAM for the area. Yet ATT sends me one or two envelopes trying to get me to sign up for fast internet and TV which they won't provide here about once or twice a week. In two years I've gotten more than 150 such bits of junk mail. Twice I've called to get it. They assure me it is available. Even though I tell them my doubts. They make an appt about two weeks later to install it. The day before they call and say there are no open slots in the hardware and sorry, but we can't provide service. The second time I did it was to watch for the tech guy to come check for connections. Yes, even though this is a sham they send a guy out to check for openings. Two days prior to the appt. I met him at the box holding their gear (I'm the second house from it). Watched him open it up, look at a list and say no open slots (even though I was looking at them). He admitted he wished they'd just put something in. The open slots are held in case active slots quit working they can be switched over to these spares. Or so the tale is. You can read comments to the articles. This story is repeated in hundreds of areas. It is done consistently this way in some areas at least by ATT. Now this area received DSL early, then ATT stopped expanding for some reason. So the areas with service are the big three cable companies all around where I live. I guess the one isolated area isn't worth their bother. I and others have contacted the cable companies and gotten nowhere. Finally, someone moved here with a son that works for Charter (which is the one I can see 1/2 mile away). Apparently, once he put us in touch with the proper person there, they wonder why no one has moved in here either. And are saying they will do so middle of next year. It is crazy. Maybe it makes sense to someone. DSL is copper... no LEC is investing in new copper facilities and a lot of copper based gear is no longer manufactured. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
sandyk Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, davide256 said: DSL is copper... no LEC is investing in new copper facilities and a lot of copper based gear is no longer manufactured. In many areas the copper network is well past it's use by date, with many pairs failing, and very few spare pairs ( if any) available. This was the case with Telstra in Au. where I was a Principal Telecommunication Technical Officer before retiring with a redundancy package 20 years ago. Giving open slather to every Tom , Dick and Harry who wished to go into competition didn't help either, as the original well qualified Telstra Linesmen retired and weren't replaced. This meant that nobody was doing preventative maintenance any more, just overcoming cable pair failures by transposing the customer to a spare pair if available. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
esldude Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I understand they are even looking for ways to drop copper for phone service. Not my problem. Invest in some infrastructure. New copper, fiber, wireless, I don't care. Cable companies seem to be making a go of it. The wireless solution would work fine where I live. Two nearby cell towers are on fiber, and you can rent space for antennas and buy bandwidth. Shoot over to my place and spread it around. That is what I was looking into doing until it started to look like a cable company might move into the area next year. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Well AT&T gets to buy Time-Warner, so now they won't be able to afford your port for a long time... Link to comment
davide256 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, esldude said: I understand they are even looking for ways to drop copper for phone service. Not my problem. Invest in some infrastructure. New copper, fiber, wireless, I don't care. Cable companies seem to be making a go of it. The wireless solution would work fine where I live. Two nearby cell towers are on fiber, and you can rent space for antennas and buy bandwidth. Shoot over to my place and spread it around. That is what I was looking into doing until it started to look like a cable company might move into the area next year. the phrase "all dressed up and no place to go" comes to mind. Cable companies have the absolute worst peering bandwidth relative to their base Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
esldude Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, davide256 said: the phrase "all dressed up and no place to go" comes to mind. Cable companies have the absolute worst peering bandwidth relative to their base I've had cable where I lived in the previous house. At least there it was fine. They promised 45/15. I always received between 45-50 any time day or night. Even a fair fraction of 45 would clearly be better than 5 late at night/early morning and something less than half that otherwise. Pretty much the same situation for people living a few miles from me in my area. So it isn't a problem everywhere. All these ISPs provide a base bandwidth far short of being able to supply their promised numbers to every customer at the same time. I wish there were more transparency in that, but that doesn't change that cable is better than what I have by an order of magnitude minimum. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
esldude Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Well AT&T gets to buy Time-Warner, so now they won't be able to afford your port for a long time... Oh come on now. This somehow enhances competition. Isn't June 20th the day it finalizes. I'll probably have super duper speed by the 4th of July. Praise Ajit! And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 AjitDrumfkDOJ was against the takeover They were unable to show harm to the consumer, which is the std. Link to comment
esldude Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: AjitDrumfkDOJ was against the takeover They were unable to show harm to the consumer, which is the std. I may have it wrong. I thought Ajit was for it. Trump/DOJ were fighting it in court, and lost. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 ok, DrumfkDOJ was against the takeover Ajit may be out of step with them(?) anyway, our conventional notions of monopolies don't fit the new technoshuffleboard too well Link to comment
NipperDog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 My ISP used to be ATT and my speed was a whopping 3Mbps. I felt like I was back in the stone age compared to my friends. They suggested that I switch to Spectrum the difference was like night and day for me. The last time I checked my speed was 115Mbps and I can now stream Videos too. Link to comment
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