mansr Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, firedog said: You guys are confusing 2 different things: Communism and communism. The first did and does exist, and is maintained by force, including in China. The second also exists, and is maintained by choice among the people who are communing. Modern China is the purest market economy this planet has ever seen. Link to comment
firedog Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, mansr said: Modern China is the purest market economy this planet has ever seen. Don’t think so. Probably 19th century Britain or US were much more so. But having aspects of a market economy doesn’t have anything to do with whether your society is Communist. China still is. Ask the Politburo that recently “elected” the leader for life. Nordkapp 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
mav52 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 hours ago, AnotherSpin said: I do not know any government one may call communist, now or then. Well you still have Laos, Vietnam , the Republic of Cuba and the Communist Party of China all still are recognized supporting a communist government. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 5 hours ago, firedog said: You guys are confusing 2 different things: Communism and communism. The first did and does exist, and is maintained by force, including in China. The second also exists, and is maintained by choice among the people who are communing. We were talking not about communism, but about "communist governments". Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, mav52 said: Well you still have Laos, Vietnam , the Republic of Cuba and the Communist Party of China all still are recognized supporting a communist government. One may want to see the difference between the name or slogan and the reality of life in a country. Pure and clean communism is and was an idea or ideal only, never practically achieved. If you proclaim your country communist and kill a large part of your people it doesn't mean your country' government is communist. As good as it may sound the principle of communal ownership and distribution was never actualized in reality. Some people are more equal then other people each time. Link to comment
firedog Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 hours ago, AnotherSpin said: One may want to see the difference between the name or slogan and the reality of life in a country. Pure and clean communism is and was an idea or ideal only, never practically achieved. If you proclaim your country communist and kill a large part of your people it doesn't mean your country' government is communist. As good as it may sound the principle of communal ownership and distribution was never actualized in reality. Some people are more equal then other people each time. Communal living works on a small scale, when the participants are all willing to live that way and choose that lifestyle. It can't work on a large scale, for 2 reasons: a)non-market/non-money based distribution becomes very complicated and can't be done efficiently or equitably; b) even in a situation where non-market based distribution can be achieved, a communal setup can't work if people are forced into it. It requires willing participants who have a positive desire to have it succeed. What we call "Communism" is more accurately called "Bolshevism"; but we're stuck with the name we have, it appears. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, firedog said: Communal living works on a small scale, when the participants are all willing to live that way and choose that lifestyle. It can't work on a large scale, for 2 reasons: a)non-market/non-money based distribution becomes very complicated and can't be done efficiently or equitably; b) even in a situation where non-market based distribution can be achieved, a communal setup can't work if people are forced into it. It requires willing participants who have a positive desire to have it succeed. What we call "Communism" is more accurately called "Bolshevism"; but we're stuck with the name we have, it appears. Again, we talk about governments. In a small scale communism is more than viable, of course. Every survived family or even single organism exist on the same principle. Link to comment
firedog Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 30 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: Again, we talk about governments. In a small scale communism is more than viable, of course. Every survived family or even single organism exist on the same principle. Sorry, sort of irrelevant to reality. A family unit isn't communism, as it isn't a "community", it's a family. Any kind of communism that means anything would have to consist of significantly more than one family. No big deal for humans with a clear genetic/evolutionary reason to cooperate to do so. A village would be a more relevant example. But we should probably drop this and get back to Chinese gear. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
mav52 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 7 hours ago, AnotherSpin said: One may want to see the difference between the name or slogan and the reality of life in a country. Pure and clean communism is and was an idea or ideal only, never practically achieved. If you proclaim your country communist and kill a large part of your people it doesn't mean your country' government is communist. As good as it may sound the principle of communal ownership and distribution was never actualized in reality. Some people are more equal then other people each time. Just google these countries and read about their ruling government The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mav52 said: Just google these countries and read about their ruling government Nice recommendation, much appreciated. Even despite a fact I was born and have been living most of my life in USSR. Link to comment
Popular Post AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2018 55 minutes ago, Nordkapp said: My condolences. Am I right – you directed your comment to me? If so, thank you. But, you miss the point. The life in USSR had its very clear advantages. To make it simple, one would never worry about tomorrow. The future was insured much above funds level. Nobody was afraid and nobody cared. No variety at all, but basic necessities were cheap as air. I am not sorry in any way I lived there and I am quite happy now as well. At least I could compare, could you? look&listen and Teresa 2 Link to comment
mansr Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 32 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: The life in USSR had its very clear advantages. To make it simple, one would never worry about tomorrow. Unless, of course, you dared disagree with the wrong people. Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 34 minutes ago, mansr said: Unless, of course, you dared disagree with the wrong people. Oh, well. Wrong people didn't care about you too. And, all of them lived im Moscow. I lived in Odessa on a Black Sea, the town of most beautiful girls in the world, gorgeous food and cheap wine. Link to comment
NOMBEDES Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 What I find interesting is the trend toward authoritarianism in countries which should know better. Hungary, Poland, and others all suffered, and suffered greatly, under a nominal Communist system. Now, after only a few years, they elect governments which appear to restrict freedom. In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, AnotherSpin said: Nobody was afraid and nobody cared. No variety at all, but basic necessities were cheap as air. I am not sorry in any way I lived there and I am quite happy now as well. At least I could compare, could you? Basic necessities were cheap, as long as you don’t include clothing and food in that category. Maybe cigarettes were cheap and plentiful, that’s about it. Don’t know what you mean by ‘nobody was afraid and nobody cared’. Anyone with a little intelligence saw the terrible living conditions, the constant oppression by the communist party, lack of freedom and lack of opportunities. Not caring is not the same as not being able to say aloud that you care. -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: Basic necessities were cheap, as long as you don’t include clothing and food in that category. Maybe cigarettes were cheap and plentiful, that’s about it. Don’t know what you mean by ‘nobody was afraid and nobody cared’. Anyone with a little intelligence saw the terrible living conditions, the constant oppression by the communist party, lack of freedom and lack of opportunities. Not caring is not the same as not being able to say aloud that you care. Wow, sounds terrible. Now I do not know how I survived that constant oppression and lack of freedom. My guess it was preoccupation with girls and listening Zappa, Weather Report and Mahler. Teresa 1 Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: Wow, sounds terrible. Now I do not know how I survived that constant oppression and lack of freedom. My guess it was preoccupation with girls and listening Zappa, Weather Report and Mahler. Curious where you got Zappa recordings, as I recall nearly everything produced in the West was expressly forbidden and had to be smuggled into the country. Heck, you had to risk your freedom just to buy a pair of jeans. -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Popular Post AnotherSpin Posted June 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: Curious where you got Zappa recordings, as I recall nearly everything produced in the West was expressly forbidden and had to be smuggled into the country. Heck, you had to risk your freedom just to buy a pair of jeans. Ok, Odessa was a home port of the largest shipping company in the world. 30% of town families or about that were connected with sea jobs. And this was a source of many things, from Zappa recordings to Levi's jeans. BTW I was wearing original Levi's or Lee jeans living in Soviet Union. Not any more now, you should buy real raw denim selvege jeans from Japan...))) pkane2001 and Teresa 1 1 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 communism requires concentration of power to allocate goods & services; as a practical matter this leads to authoritarianism and then dictatorship in the US, the Founders were very careful to chop the central govt. into small pieces - so much so that the first attempt (Articles of Confederation) failed; the 2nd attempt retained 3 branches, and federalism Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: communism requires concentration of power to allocate goods & services; as a practical matter this leads to authoritarianism and then dictatorship in the US, the Founders were very careful to chop the central govt. into small pieces - so much so that the first attempt (Articles of Confederation) failed; the 2nd attempt retained 3 branches, and federalism Let’s see how well this design holds up in the age of Trump. Seems to me that it only works when the three branches are at odds with each other. When two to three branches align interests, there’s very little protection left against authoritarian or dictatorial tendencies. Teresa 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: Ok, Odessa was a home port of the largest shipping company in the world. 30% of town families or about that were connected with sea jobs. And this was a source of many things, from Zappa recordings to Levi's jeans. BTW I was wearing original Levi's or Lee jeans living in Soviet Union. Not any more now, you should buy real raw denim selvege jeans from Japan...))) Ах, Одесса, жемчужина у моря! AnotherSpin 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: Let’s see how well this design holds up in the age of Trump. Seems to me that it only works when the three branches are at odds with each other. When two to three branches align interests, there’s very little protection left against authoritarian or dictatorial tendencies. while a good point, I analogize this to the "stress testing" of banks this is a stress test for Democracy - it survived a civil war, so I am optimistic - I am less optimistic about things I know more about and which are easier to predict the future on however... Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: while a good point, I analogize this to the "stress testing" of banks this is a stress test for Democracy - it survived a civil war, so I am optimistic - I am less optimistic about things I know more about and which are easier to predict the future on however... I agree, although I’m less optimistic than maybe just hopeful that this grand experiment will survive this particular stress test. -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted June 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2018 Doesn't matter. The US and Europe will be engulfed by fire, fleeing migrants, storms and water intrusion. Later, the entire planet will be scorched by by the sun expanding before it flames out and then the entire universe will disappear into a cold dark entropic abyss. On the bright side, that may not happen if the universe vanishes in a quantum fluctuation first. Fluffytime and Hugo9000 1 1 Link to comment
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