How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

[Nordkapp]

15 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

It's become a term of derision. Not by me I hasten to add.

Buy that's only because the maniacs with the half million dollar systems get all the press. That's what the public sees.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

3 minutes ago, Nordkapp said:

Buy that's only because the maniacs with the half million dollar systems get all the press. That's what the public sees.

 

Certainly there is much angst about upper price points but the derision is not limited to this, not by a long stretch.

[GUTB]

There's a tendency among audiophiles to be politically correct about other people's entry level / low end systems.

 

For example, let's take Audiophile A who has spent 10 years and tens of thousands of dollars to piece together Magico + VAC system and after a lot of trial and error finally has achieved audio nirvana. Crystal clear highs, powerful transients, expansive soundstage with rock-solid imaging, high resolution and pinpoint focus.

 

Audiophile A visits friend B. Friend B assembled a 3-way speaker kit from Madisound, bought a vintage Yamaha integrated receiver off eBay to drive them, a Denon automatic turntable and a DragonFly Black off his laptop for digital. Audiophile A is a little surprised how good such a cheap/modest setup sounds -- not that he would ever trade it in for his Magicos and VACs; it's good, but doesn't hold a candle to his own setup.

 

Audiophile A, if he was being truthful would tell Friend B that while his system is pretty good it has much, MUCH further to go. Audiophile A is a social person obviously he's not going to go around and bad-mouth his friend's system. Maybe Audiophile A is a little peeved that Friend A seems a little too smug about building a system that doesn't compare to his own, but it's not like he would ever start a fight over it.

 

I'm the inner voice of Audiophile A. It's easy to just virtue signal about hi-fi for less, but it's tough to come out and shoot them down as entry level crap that should be seen as nothing more as a stepping stone for beginners to get into real audio.

[semente]

15 hours ago, KingRex said:

I believe and audiophile is not necessarily looking for live performance playback

 

Are you assuming that all live music is blasting away over 6 dozen PA speakers?

 

I hardly ever listen to rock gigs, much prefer solo or small ensemble recitals, concertos and orchestral music.

I want a recording playing through my system to sound as realistic and natural as possible, to replicate the perspective of a seat in the audience if the recording permits.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

32 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Are you assuming that all live music is blasting away over 6 dozen PA speakers?

 

 

...and after the sound guy weaponizes the sound!

[PeterG]

6 hours ago, GUTB said:

I'm the inner voice of Audiophile A. It's easy to just virtue signal about hi-fi for less, but it's tough to come out and shoot them down as entry level crap that should be seen as nothing more as a stepping stone for beginners to get into real audio.

 

Fortunately for our society, most of us learn how to modulate our inner voices at age 5 or so.  As you pointed out, "Audiophile A is surprised at how good" the modest system sounds.  Kind of like the BMW driver who is pleasantly surprised in a friend's Subaru.  In neither case is it appropriate to suggest dropping another $40K or so

 

 

[pkane2001]

6 minutes ago, PeterG said:

Fortunately for our society, most of us learn how to modulate our inner voices at age 5 or so...In neither case is it appropriate to suggest dropping another $40K or so

 

Depends on whether you are neurotypical.

[mordante]

19 hours ago, KingRex said:

 I believe and audiophile is not necessarily looking for live performance playback.  It is a person engaged in a process of extracting the highest quality playback from the base components in the system using accessories.  Accessories are anything from dedicated power systems, cables, stands, isolators, room treatments, placement, subwoofers etc.  

 

I agree.

 

I don't think I can or want my home audio system to sound like a live music. Live music, what is it even? Is Slayer playing a for 10.000 people the standard, is it a U2 stadium concert, is it a chamber music (cello piano violin vocals), or is it a Wagner concert in the royal Albert?

 

The cheer size, dynamic range and decibels of a live performance is not what I could ever want in my living room. This weekend I was at a Sleep concert. Their backline would fill most of my living room.  

[PeterG]

11 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Depends on whether you are neurotypical.

 

Yes, I agree with that.  But, of course, most of us are neurotypical (hence the "typical" half of the portmanteau).  Also, although I agree with your implication that neurodivergent people can be as good for society as neurotypical people, that does not mean it is appropriate for a neurodivergent person to say whatever is on his mind.

[pkane2001]

5 minutes ago, PeterG said:

 

Yes, I agree with that.  But, of course, most of us are neurotypical (hence the "typical" half of the portmanteau).  Also, although I agree with your implication that neurodivergent people can be as good for society as neurotypical people, that does not mean it is appropriate for a neurodivergent person to say whatever is on his mind.

 

That wasn’t a random comment. The poster you were responding to claims he’s neurotypical in every other of his posts, without prompting or anyone asking. Just sayin.

[davide256]

20 hours ago, KingRex said:

I think you can have a system that cost about $1,700 in basic components and get very good playback. ...

...I would say it cost $4,000 and a minimum 700 hours or a couple years of leaning, reading, getting into what makes good playback to have a high performing system.  As you cut the hours of learning, the $ increase. 

There are two important facets of that learning 

1. ear education... you have to put time into listening to different system solutions with music you are familiar with.

2. market education... lots of product out there, you have to invest time in knowing the market, spotting and auditioning whats good vs whats "also ran"

 

the cost of a users audiophile system will be directly related to their willingness to spend money and their degree of practical education in "audiophilia"  A beginner audiophile will likely be happy with a $2K system but as the ear becomes more educated the upgrade bug drives system cost up. There are of course

the audiophiles who buy $50K + systems to start but their success then depends entirely on the dealers audio learning  and product diversity for whether

what they buy is better than a $10K system.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, davide256 said:

the cost of a users audiophile system will be directly related to their willingness to spend money

No shit.

[accwai]

42 minutes ago, PeterG said:

Fortunately for our society, most of us learn how to modulate our inner voices at age 5 or so.  As you pointed out, "Audiophile A is surprised at how good" the modest system sounds.  Kind of like the BMW driver who is pleasantly surprised in a friend's Subaru.  In neither case is it appropriate to suggest dropping another $40K or so

 

It always depends on what one is looking for... Pleasantly surprised by what on the Subaru? And dropping $40k? For $20k, rather serious amount of engine, suspension and aero work can be done on BRZ or WRX STI. Anybody skillful enough to take the thing coming out of that process to the limit is unlikely to care one bit if the BMW drivers are impressed...

[davide256]

 

7 hours ago, GUTB said:

There's a tendency among audiophiles to be politically correct about other people's entry level / low end systems.

 

For example, let's take Audiophile A who has spent 10 years and tens of thousands of dollars to piece together Magico + VAC system and after a lot of trial and error finally has achieved audio nirvana. Crystal clear highs, powerful transients, expansive soundstage with rock-solid imaging, high resolution and pinpoint focus.

 

Audiophile A visits friend B. Friend B assembled a 3-way speaker kit from Madisound, bought a vintage Yamaha integrated receiver off eBay to drive them, a Denon automatic turntable and a DragonFly Black off his laptop for digital. Audiophile A is a little surprised how good such a cheap/modest setup sounds -- not that he would ever trade it in for his Magicos and VACs; it's good, but doesn't hold a candle to his own setup.

 

Audiophile A, if he was being truthful would tell Friend B that while his system is pretty good it has much, MUCH further to go. Audiophile A is a social person obviously he's not going to go around and bad-mouth his friend's system. Maybe Audiophile A is a little peeved that Friend A seems a little too smug about building a system that doesn't compare to his own, but it's not like he would ever start a fight over it.

 

I'm the inner voice of Audiophile A. It's easy to just virtue signal about hi-fi for less, but it's tough to come out and shoot them down as entry level crap that should be seen as nothing more as a stepping stone for beginners to get into real audio.

Not sure I could do that... there's no "sweat equity" in friend B's system. Now if it was vintage JBL's with a NAD3020, original AR turntable with a Grado ZTE, my foot would be tapping with nostalgia and actual music enjoyment.

[Bystander]

I don't think being an audiophile has to cost anything. To me, it just means you appreciate good audio and have come to know,  learned to recognize and appreciate accurate sound reproduction. It also means you are possibly able to evaluate the extent to which components of a system exhibit issues and know what to look out/listen for and what steps to take to improve the sound. It's not something you have, it's something you are.  You'll probably be inclined to spend some amount of money at that point, but that is neither required nor does it have to be very much at all to take you very far towards an accurate system within the constraints of a given room. The latter admittedly being a huge issue and something I would spend most of my money on if I was serious about getting the best sound quality out of my system irrespective of cost. I'd always start with a (purpose-built) room and go from there.  I mean, I think my modest system sounds stunning, but at the same time I recognize the issues it has (almost all of them having to do with the room which can't be / isn't worth it to fix right now). But I've reduced them to a point where it doesn't distract me from enjoying the sound. The point is, that I'm aware of what is good or bad about the system, realize what aspects of it are still lacking and whether it is worth it to go to the lengths necessary to fix them (not really).

[mordante]

9 minutes ago, davide256 said:

 

Not sure I could do that... there's no "sweat equity" in friend B's system. Now if it was vintage JBL's with a NAD3020, original AR turntable with a Grado ZTE, my foot would be tapping with nostalgia and actual music enjoyment.

 

Vintage JBL is bloody expensive. 4343, 4345, 4350 etc I think prices for a decent pair starts at euro 10k and for a Kendrick the prices are a lot higher.

[mav52]

8 minutes ago, mordante said:

 

Vintage JBL is bloody expensive. 4343, 4345, 4350 etc I think prices for a decent pair starts at euro 10k and for a Kendrick the prices are a lot higher.

They go up there in price thats for sure

[mordante]

3 minutes ago, mav52 said:

Lets say $1447 US for a 4343.  I don't call that bloody expensive. https://www.ebay.com/i/292420842081?chn=ps 

 

Maybe I'm mistaken. but the $1447 is only for the stands, not for the speakers

[mav52]

5 minutes ago, mordante said:

 

Maybe I'm mistaken. but the $1447 is only for the stands, not for the speakers

Yep I saw that and changed it.  Thanks Just not enough coffee 

But this dealer in Denver has some used JBL's https://www.homeaudiosound.com/product-category/used/speakers-used/

[davide256]

38 minutes ago, mordante said:

 

Vintage JBL is bloody expensive. 4343, 4345, 4350 etc I think prices for a decent pair starts at euro 10k and for a Kendrick the prices are a lot higher.

Never heard them... was thinking more in the Lxx series. Colored but dynamic, great for acoustic guitar.

[GUTB]

I'm neurotypical. In fact it's neurotypical to be socially adept enough not to put down someone else's inferior stereo system. This is the Internet though, some normal forms of face-to-face social communications don't apply.

 

VAC sounds better than a Yamaha. Magicos sound better than a sub-$1000 Madisound kit. That is the complete truth. Even though these cheaper options may be surprisingly good in some ways -- maybe even many ways -- they won't compete with the modern high-end. An experienced, ear-educated audiophile wouldn't be able to bear the audio downgrade from trading in his high end system for the "well-regarded cheap" option. Everyone here, excepting maybe those who have never heard high-end audio once in their lives (studio engineers usually have no contact with high end audio), knows this fact.

[kumakuma]

19 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I'm neurotypical. In fact it's neurotypical to be socially adept enough not to put down someone else's inferior stereo system. This is the Internet though, some normal forms of face-to-face social communications don't apply.

 

Perhaps you need to reconsider this assumption...

[semente]

10 hours ago, GUTB said:

There's a tendency among audiophiles to be politically correct about other people's entry level / low end systems.

I've just been listening to a $165k+ new CD based system for some 4 hours. The owner and the other visitor enjoy listening at higher levels than I do and I confess that I felt uncomfortable at times.

I am now listening to the same track in my lowly £6.5k system. The SPL is at the same level as per the app on my phone and the sound is smooth as silk with a much more balanced tonal balance.

[mordante]

3 hours ago, semente said:

I've just been listening to a $165k+ new CD based system for some 4 hours. The owner and the other visitor enjoy listening at higher levels than I do and I confess that I felt uncomfortable at times.

I am now listening to the same track in my lowly £6.5k system. The SPL is at the same level as per the app on my phone and the sound is smooth as silk with a much more balanced tonal balance.

 

Well some people don't like a smooth as silk sound since lots of music isn't smooth as silk. I'm actually hoping that with a change of amps I can make the top end a bit more aggressive.

 

Sometimes I also prefer my home set over very expensive audio sets. Most likely not because my set is better. But

1) It's my set so I should feel good about it

2) I've gotten used to the sound signature of my set and think it some kind of reference

3) Maybe on a subconscious level I know the more expensive set is better but since I know I'll never be able to afford it I pretend mine is better

4) Because it's my home I'm more relaxed and can enjoy the music more, being less anxious

5) All of the above.

 

 

[semente]

1 hour ago, mordante said:

Well some people don't like a smooth as silk sound since lots of music isn't smooth as silk.

By silky smooth sound I mean free from grain, hardness, fog, and you hear whatever is in the recording. Raspy trumpets sound like raspy trumpets, close mic'ed violins sound edgy and bright...

Let's not confuse sound with music.

 

Interestingly my host today said he liked his sound with teeth. I guess he's never listened to smooth dynamic reproduced sound.