Article: My Quest for a New DAC Part 1 - The Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ with Uptone JS-2 Power Supply

[d_elm]

I am comparing a Meitner MA-1 V2 to an Ayre Codex so relative levels are an issue for me also.  My preamp, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, has 1.5 db volume increments and in listening I decided the MA-1 was 1.5 or 3.0 db louder but I found the best volume setting was one increment down, or 1.5 db down.

 

I then setup PCM and DSD tracks for 250 Hz and 400 Hz and played through the Codex and MA-1 and recorded the level with a sound pressure meter, a Checkmate CM-140.  I found the MA-1 3.6 db louder at 250, both PCM and DSD, and 3.4 db louder at 400 Hz.

 

 I wonder why I prefer 1.5 db down for the MA-1 rather than 3.0 db down.  Tracks do not sound too loud.  Perhaps it is because the MA-1 sounds more dynamic.

[austinpop]

4 minutes ago, d_elm said:

I am comparing a Meitner MA-1 V2 to an Ayre Codex so relative levels are an issue for me also.  My preamp, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, has 1.5 db volume increments and in listening I decided the MA-1 was 1.5 or 3.0 db louder but I found the best volume setting was one increment down, or 1.5 db down.

 

I then setup PCM and DSD tracks for 250 Hz and 400 Hz and played through the Codex and MA-1 and recorded the level with a sound pressure meter, a Checkmate CM-140.  I found the MA-1 3.6 db louder at 250, both PCM and DSD, and 3.4 db louder at 400 Hz.

 

 I wonder why I prefer 1.5 db down for the MA-1 rather than 3.0 db down.  Tracks do not sound too loud.  Perhaps it is because the MA-1 sounds more dynamic.

 

Do you have an SPL meter? I have one that I bought from Radio Shack - back when such places existed.

 

In a pinch you can also use an app on your phone. I use the free Decibel X iOS app when I don't have the Shack meter.

[austinpop]

7 minutes ago, mansr said:

If it's a cheap one, probably best to not exceed 1 kHz or so. The AC functions on these are only intended for 50/60 Hz mains derived quantities, but they work with somewhat higher frequencies as well (because it would take effort not to). If it's a Fluke or other proper brand, it can handle anything in the audio range.

 

Yes, just a cheapo one.

 

7 minutes ago, mansr said:

Measure between the + and - pins. At the DAC or with a cable between doesn't matter, just measure each contender in the same way.

 

Will do.

 

7 minutes ago, mansr said:

That depends. If you're looking to equalise perceived loudness (which is a must if picking a preference), you should be using a A-weighted noise. If your goal is to identify differences, use a 1 kHz tone. Bear in mind that a cheap meter might only give a good reading with sine wave inputs.

 

Given the cheapness of the device, probably best I stick with the 1kHz tone.

 

In any case, we can use the voltage measurement alongside the SPL meter readings to cross-correlate.

[d_elm]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Do you have an SPL meter? I have one that I bought from Radio Shack - back when such places existed.

 

In a pinch you can also use an app on your phone. I use the free Decibel X iOS app when I don't have the Shack meter.

My SPL meter is the Checkmate CM-140.  The RS meter would probably be OK to use at fixed frequencies, better than a phone app.  I chose 250 and 400 because I do not like to listen to 1k, I could put in ear plugs but there are dogs in the house right now, when I want to test.

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, d_elm said:

My SPL meter is the Checkmate CM-140.  The RS meter would probably be OK to use at fixed frequencies, better than a phone app.  I chose 250 and 400 because I do not like to listen to 1k, I could put in ear plugs but there are dogs in the house right now, when I want to test.

 

Why not just use pink noise, if you have the SPL meter?

[d_elm]

26 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Why not just use pink noise, if you have the SPL meter?

There is a pink noise PCM  track on the Woodford CD.  I will make a DSD track and try the test again tomorrow when my wife and dogs are not here.

[d_elm]

With pink noise the Meitner MA-1 V2 measures 3.2 db, round that to 3db, louder than the Ayre Codex, measured with the Checkmate cm-140.

[natemact]

There's a Terminator that was just added to Canuck Audio Mart here

[natemact]

I'll keep my eye on this as it's a very ambitious overtaking and sounds like a winner won't be crowned until until TT 2 and Q-8 are auditioned - it's gonna be a while before they hit the market...well TT 2 for sure. QX-8 was unveiled at Munich 2017 but Charlie's sad passing in Nov seems to be the reason for the postponing?  @austinpop Can you tell me which Generation of USB and analog board does that Yggy use? Honestly, it's hard to beat when fully upgraded and considering your need for MQA is withering this should be your top DAC to beat IMHO. Not saying Terminator, QX-8 or TT 2 can't, but they are all at twice the price or higher.

 

Other thing I'll mention, and it's not something you'll want to hear, all of these DACs - even the Myteks and Chords (save for Mojo) - out resolve your HD800. I say this from experience, as my last two headphones were SDR modded HD800 w/Cardas Clear and Utopias w/stock cable driven by CMA800R and I didn't believe for one second all the comparisons stating that the Utopias make the HD800 sound veiled. Well unfortunately it's true. HD800 are great but the Utopias are in another league altogether. Too peaky in the 5-7kHz range and smaller soundstage with stock cable (realize you like classical so SS is important) but imaging is so precise they make HD800 sound even more diffuse and vague than was already noticeable, let alone how much more resolve they offer. It really was an eye-opener and wallet emptier but well worth it. If Utopias aren't for you look at Abyss Phi.

 

I just know that pairing the DACs you're looking at with HD800 is, for lack of better a word, wasteful. Timbre and tone will be easy to discern but technicalities like layering, separation, imaging precision, etc will be very difficult indeed. Sorry : )

[austinpop]

14 minutes ago, natemact said:

I'll keep my eye on this as it's a very ambitious overtaking and sounds like a winner won't be crowned until until TT 2 and Q-8 are auditioned - it's gonna be a while before they hit the market...well TT 2 for sure. QX-8 was unveiled at Munich 2017 but Charlie's sad passing in Nov seems to be the reason for the postponing?  @austinpop Can you tell me which Generation of USB and analog board does that Yggy use? Honestly, it's hard to beat when fully upgraded and considering your need for MQA is withering this should be your top DAC to beat IMHO. Not saying Terminator, QX-8 or TT 2 can't, but they are all at twice the price or higher.

 

The Yggy I heard does not have the USB Gen 5 nor the Analog 2 upgrades. I am sure they serve to make it an even more outstanding DAC. If the Yggy had the format support I need, it would be a serious contender for me. However, as i've stated quite clearly, I have a large collection of DSD music, and a growing collection of DXD. Neither format is handled natively in the Yggy. So yes - it is a great DAC. Just not for me.

 

14 minutes ago, natemact said:

Other thing I'll mention, and it's not something you'll want to hear, all of these DACs - even the Myteks and Chords (save for Mojo) - out resolve your HD800. I say this from experience, as my last two headphones were SDR modded HD800 w/Cardas Clear and Utopias w/stock cable driven by CMA800R and I didn't believe for one second all the comparisons stating that the Utopias make the HD800 sound veiled. Well unfortunately it's true. HD800 are great but the Utopias are in another league altogether. Too peaky in the 5-7kHz range and smaller soundstage with stock cable (realize you like classical so SS is important) but imaging is so precise they make HD800 sound even more diffuse and vague than was already noticeable, let alone how much more resolve they offer. It really was an eye-opener and wallet emptier but well worth it. If Utopias aren't for you look at Abyss Phi.

 

This has not been my experience. I'll make 2 points here:

1. You're right, soundstage and imaging is really important to me. So far, I have yet to find a headphone that I like better than the HD800. Not for lack of looking, believe me! I've had the Utopia in my system for an extended loan, and while there are aspects of this headphone I love, it just doesn't do classical as well as I'd like. Ditto for the Abyss Phi, sadly. The only one I truly lust after is the Sennheiser HE-1. Yup, the $60k one.  
2. I strongly disagree with you when you say: "all of these DACs - even the Myteks and Chords (save for Mojo) - out resolve your HD800." I'm sorry, that has not been my experience at all. Remember - I've had far better DACs in my system like the Ayre QX-5, and the HD800 allowed their quality to shine through. Trust me, the with the right amplification (and the Cavalli LAu is truly end-game), the HD800 scales up very well with sources.

 

14 minutes ago, natemact said:

I just know that pairing the DACs you're looking at with HD800 is, for lack of better a word, wasteful. Timbre and tone will be easy to discern but technicalities like layering, separation, imaging precision, etc will be very difficult indeed. Sorry : )

 

I beg to disagree. That's OK - different systems, different ears - different opinions.

[natemact]

You're a tough nut to crack! I apologize to just sign up to CA and thumb my nose at your DAC series. It's just that I only signed up because of how impressed I was with your upcoming shootout, but even more so because I hate seeing people wasting money in the hobby : ) I work in an audio shop, and yes, I'm very opinionated, but I have very good reason to be as I know how to maximize your sound/$ and a $5k DAC married to HD800 driven by "you name it" headamp and cable becomes wasteful, and even more so because DACs are progressing so quickly. Hear me out, the Hugo TT 2 has twice the number of taps as H2, yet the H2 (which will be approx 1.5 years old by the time the TT2 is released) already out-resolved your HD800. An H2 out-resolves Utopias for Christ's sake lol! So ya, your HD800 isn't cutting it. The fact that you couldn't discern much of a difference between the Brooklyn+ and Yggy should've given you pause to your claim that HD800 are resolved enough transducers for your future DAC, because the two sure don't sound similar through Utopias! Now I'm not saying you won't hear a difference in gear with HD800, of course you will. It merely introduces bottlenecking. You probably don't want to believe this either but your LAu does the same thing lol. It's a superb headamp, oh I know, but it cannot add any resolution to the signal merely slightly strip it away as well as color the sound - also adds stage dimensions. Do HD800 need some color? Yep they sure do, as they're thin sounding, etched around 6kHz and bass light without it. This is a band-aid type of system building which is popular among enthusiasts who get to attached to a particular piece of gear so much so that they then make compromises to keep it in their system. Now I'm not saying it was a bad purchase at the time it's just not needed now with just about any other headphone out there. H2 can easily drive everything save for Phi, LCD-4 or Susvara, but that's where the TT 2 steps in. Out of a DAC/headamp combo like the Hugo 2 any headamp you output to will only veil the sound, possibly add color and/or soundstage, but definitely not increase resolution.

 

Let's tackle it another way. Headphones can't present a soundstage with layering, separation and imaging like speakers can, it's absolutely universally agreed. An H2, driving highly efficient loudspeakers directly from it's RCAs, in the nearfield, presents these soundstage characterisitics like no headphone can, and these are things we need to agree on or we'll never get anywhere. Open, transparent yet palpable sound? Loudspeakers over headphones everyday and this is where that extra resolution comes through! It's not about hearing the keyboard player turn the page more clearly or hearing the guitar player flick his smoke before a guitar solo. Resolution is hearing the space where the recording happened. Being able to clearly see the entirety of the stage and the performers on it. Having a sense of depth to the layering of instuments. Having adequate air around instruments. Texterizing the bassline so it's easier to watch it weave it's way through drum fills. I could go on but as you can see once you get up a certain level of resolution in digital components the gains then become very soundstage heavy and if the best headphones won't cut it than HD800 don't even have a shot. Still surprised you didn't like Utopia even with stock cable?? It's imaging is sooo much more precise than HD800 not to mention the depth I could get them with my TEO Audio GC II (relatively cheap but WOW). HD800 sounded 2D comparitively. I'm actually astonished here tbh! Plus, better cable = bigger soundstage. Dana cable Lazuli Ref is definitely my pick. Ultra if you can. Not really fair to write them off yet. Please revisit.

 

Didn't like the Phi's either? Was it their tonality? Comfort? They're the best headphones currently on the market, barnone. Yes, better than Utopias, though Utopias just edge it out in sheer resolution but everything else was in the Phi's favor. Haven't heard the new 009S but they would need a heafty kick in the pants to become a multi-genre headphone overnight so I'm confident in reiterating that Phi's are IT right now. Too bad you didn't think so too. LCD-4 are missing a chunk of lower treble and Mr. Speakers seem like they were rushed for tuning or they just aren't were they need to be so early on in the stat game.

 

I leave and never pester you again by letting you know that I did a similar DAC shootout between:

 

PS Audio Steller

Brooklyn+

DAC3 HGC

Audio Alchemy DPP-1 w/PS-5

 

Source was laptop w/2x Jitterbug and AQ Diamond USB to Schitt Eitr w/AQ Diamond coax to DAC

Questyle CMA800R w/Cardas Clear Reflection, AQ Wind and TEO Audio GC II interconnects used all three to get a better sense of DACs matchability

Blue Circle PLC FX2 XOe w/Harmonic Tech AC10 II & Eichmann Power Express Series 2 PCs

AQ Edison outlet on 15amp dedicated line

Nordost BC Sort Kones under DAC  

 

I used both my pair of HD800 w/Cardas Clear cable and Utopia w/stock. All four DACs were very similar with HD800. PS being the warmest than Brooklyn, AA and Benchmark was the coolest. Detail was pretty much a wash. PS was the least resolved but we're talking very small degrees of separation here. You could easily live with any of them. Enter the Utopias. Clear differences emerged between DACs not audible with HD800. I now noticed the imaging accuracy of DAC3 and to slightly lesser degree Brooklyn and AA, bass authority of Steller and AA while texture went to Brooklyn, amount of air with DAC3 and slightly thinner vocals, AA had best macro-dynamics while DAC3 best micro, plus others that HD800 couldn't bring to my attention. Now I went back and listened for specifics after the fact with HD800 and some characterisitcs were there but not easily discernable like with Utopia. Actually, listening via the built-in headamps produced a clearer, more transparent and less veiled sound on all but the Brooklyn (too bright I found).

 

I wish you good luck in your series. My prediction is you end up with TT 2, sell your LAu and upgrade your headphones when something finally comes out that trumps HD800 for you. Going that route also opens up H2 and then wait for M-Scaler as the extra 50K taps in the TT 2 won't really be a big difference when you then end up adding one million later on. TT 2 also is galvanically isolated but plugging straight into a PC isn't best practice anyway so I don't see that being an issue. Clearly go with a NAA, renderer or decrapifier with any DAC...2Go with H2 someday...Seems likethe  battery leading to increased headamp voltage  will be the major advantage of the TT 2 over the H2. All the best to you! : )

[LTG2010]

Thanks Rajiv for this insightful review from another headphone user, in my case the LCD XC. I also use the original Brooklyn DAC. This has the same board as the Manhattan and when powered with a good supply such as the JS2 it can get very close to the the pricier DAC. Mytek have been a bit sneaky IMO with the Brooklyn+ with a few lower spec components than those in the Manhattan II, thus ensuring any power supply upgrade will not exceed the performance of their premier DAC. Looking forward to reading your review of the Manhattan II.

Another DAC that is making a lot of waves is the Holo Audio Spring- Kitsune, Don't know if you've considered that or have already auditioned it and ruled it out.

Here's to many more great reviews to come.

Alec

[Geoff1954]

Apologies if others have mentioned this. I understand Mytek now sells the Liberty at 40% of the price of the Brooklyn. Do you plan to try it?

https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/liberty-dac/

 

[austinpop]

On 6/13/2018 at 7:11 PM, Geoff1954 said:

Apologies if others have mentioned this. I understand Mytek now sells the Liberty at 40% of the price of the Brooklyn. Do you plan to try it?

https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/liberty-dac/

 

 

No current plans. I might circle back and try it at some point.

[beerandmusic]

On 5/24/2018 at 4:51 PM, soares said:

Fine review indeed. I loved it.

As the Brooklyn+ and the Chord Qutest could be seen as competitors, I would see the interest of many people to have the later also reviewed.  Cheers.

 

amen!  i am seriously considering to try the qutest, and many suggest it comes very close to the highly acclaimed DAVE which will never be in my budget.  If i wanted to try any new dac today, it would be the qutest, and secondly the one you did mention, the ifi idsd pro.  The mytek's have great reviews already, but are "relatively old" now....would also love to see you try the LKM and see if you feel it lives up to they hype.

[David Young]

Excellent review! Regarding your PS ranking, were you using the stock DC cable that came with each when making the comparisons? I've been shocked at how much the DC cable can have on the musical impact of a PS. Thank you!

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, David Young said:

Excellent review! Regarding your PS ranking, were you using the stock DC cable that came with each when making the comparisons? I've been shocked at how much the DC cable can have on the musical impact of a PS. Thank you!

 

Indeed! I too have found DC cables to matter.

 

The DC cables I used were already optimized for the PSU's. After much experimentation in the past with starquad, JSSG, etc, I have found silver UPOCC cables to sound best in general. So here are the cables that were used with the various PSUs:

• SR-4: Paul Hynes's DC3FSXLR silver cable
• LPS-1.2: Audio Sensibility Silver Signature 7N UPOCC silver cable
• sPS-500: SOtM Stranded 7N UPOCC silver cable
• JS-2: both the stock Uptone Belden starquad cable, and the Audio Sensibility cable.

I am aware of all the recent DIY experiments going on with POE injectors, JSSG 360 etc, and will certainly experiment with these once the dust settles a bit.

[Sam Lord]

Nice review!  But seriously, put the spl meter away, it's a waist of time.  Just use steady tones, 1kHz is standard, and measure across the outputs with a good load like 20kOhms.  Don't use pink noise, it varies too much for a meter to track.  Well, some can but steady tones yield far more precision and accuracy.  I suggest you get a desktop, AC-powered unit if you'll be testing a lot, because it will be very stable and can do better tests, especially any involving low frequencies.  Meters are also wonderful for measuring noise and for testing continuity to check the resistance of ground connections.

 

Be sure to keep some simple runs of fairly thick (20ga or lower) wire; you can solve nearly any ground loop just by connecting chassis almost at random until the noise suddenly dies... vastly better and safer than cheater plugs.    

[exdmd]

Thanks for the review. I owned a Brooklyn DAC+ for a year and replaced it with a Schiit Yggdrasil A2.

 

The USB input and switching power supply on the Brooklyn are marginal in my experience. In order to make the DAC+ even approach the SQ from the Yggy A2 playing PCM over USB you need to add an external LPS (minimum cost $375 for an Sbooster) and a Schiit Eitr ($179) to clean up the USB. Now cost is up to $2750 ($3300 if you buy the Uptone JS-2 LPS instead.)

 

The Yggdrasil Analog 2 I now own sounds better than the DAC+ on PCM and is an excellent value at $2399, especially considering the fully modular architecture which can be upgraded and 5 year warranty.

 

The DAC+ tries to be the 'Swiss Army Knife' with a phono stage, built in head amp (about as good as last years' Magni), MQA and DSD processing while the Yggdrasil A2 just does PCM at a very high level with no add-ons required.