PC - cheap optimisation?

[numlog]

Apologies in advance if is this is a low quality post. 

So far stripping down the PC to the bare minimum actually slightly improved sound quality which is really surprising .

It included removing the GPU completely and removing all fans, leaving the case open for passive cooling. basically the PC is downgraded severely for tiny (yet valuable) audible improvements but its easily reversible and costs nothing

 

what would be the next most cost effective ways to refine the sound, no matter how insiginificant or inconvienient?

what about externally powering some parts with LPSs? I understand  the mobos onboard regulators and the existing power supply, Corsair CX600M, will greatly reduce the effectiveness but surely it couldnt hurt and will reduce load on primary supply

 

the PC has 3 harddrives, 1 SSD (OS) and 2 HDD (music+other data).

 

[marce]

Case open, even less shielding! for a noisy PC...

Passive cooling only works if the PC is designed for passive cooling, otherwise your processor can get hotter and noise will increase...

 

[mansr]

1 hour ago, numlog said:

what would be the next most cost effective ways to refine the sound, no matter how insiginificant or inconvienient?

Read some engineering books. Then you'll stop worrying about things that don't matter.

[ElviaCaprice]

Cost effective is qualitative, having different value for each.  With audiophile servers reaching well north of 5k, in some instances.  

Mobos are cheap, so don't feel it a need to keep the one you are trying to work with, when the real cost/time is going to be much greater for power supplies and updated clocking.    

Picking the right mobo minimum for what you need to accomplish along with power supplies and clocking is key (even with the current deficiencies in mobo design).  All the rest of the minor adjustments to software, casing, etc. are minor in comparison and maybe unnecessary if the big ones are remedied. 

 

[numlog]

Just now, marce said:

Case open, even less shielding! for a noisy PC...

Passive cooling only works if the PC is designed for passive cooling, otherwise your processor can get hotter and noise will increase...

 

it still better than a ton of fans whirring around near your harddrives, RAM , CPU etc.

Im confident it sound better this way but its hard to know exactly why, a lot changed.

 

what does designed for passive cooling mean? I would agree if you want a practical passive cooling solution then this isnt it but I dont see how it wont achieve the exact same result, good heatsink and cool air is all you need to passively cool

 

My heatsink is obviously not designed for passive cooling but its pretty big (newer intel dont come with cooler, you choose one yourself). the CPU fan was pushing very little air anyway, the heatsink on its own is able dissipate enough heat to keep temp in control for normal use

 

if poorer cooler is generating more noise its still better than the actual mechanical noise from the fans and any potential electrical noise its generating.

 

 

[numlog]

27 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Cost effective is qualitative, having different value for each.  With audiophile servers reaching well north of 5k, in some instances.  

Mobos are cheap, so don't feel it a need to keep the one you are trying to work with, when the real cost/time is going to be much greater for power supplies and updated clocking.    

Picking the right mobo minimum for what you need to accomplish along with power supplies and clocking is key (even with the current deficiencies in mobo design).  All the rest of the minor adjustments to software, casing, etc. are minor in comparison and maybe unnecessary if the big ones are remedied. 

 

In that case it would probably make sense just to move to an SBC . All thats needed is a USB port and music player, the only downside of an SBC is losing the convenience of windows. There's of plenty of info already on here but would like to ask if you have any experience going from PC to an SBC

[ElviaCaprice]

10 minutes ago, numlog said:

In that case it would probably make sense just to move to an SBC . All thats needed is a USB port and music player, the only downside of an SBC is losing the convenience of windows. There's of plenty of info already on here but would like to ask if you have any experience going from PC to an SBC

I went even smaller, in my signature with a Jetway NUC, which I use Windows 10 on.  I also have even smaller, but not for my main audio, a Jetway Pico-ITX and run Windows 10 on it.  For both I bought the barebones units that come with casing & embedded mobo.  

For cheap isolation of power, a Lipo battery, in a pinch, works on the NUC.

https://www.jetwaycomputer.com/Barebones.html

[numlog]

after reading through a thread on here i replaced the generic SATA cables with much shorter 'Foxconn' branded cables taken from an old PC and this actually made a difference . I cant believe it but it was more significant than any of the tweaks so far, it actually sounds different rather than just sounding slightly cleaner, swapping back and forth between these cables I think it is higher quality but I prefer the 'sound' of the original.... they might just need some burn in

a joke but at this point it wouldn't surprise me

[mansr]

32 minutes ago, numlog said:

after reading through a thread on here i replaced the generic SATA cables with much shorter 'Foxconn' branded cables taken from an old PC and this actually made a difference

Foxconn is about as generic as it gets.

[Ralf11]

1. get the PC away from the DAC

2. put the PC on a different AC circuit than the DAC & stereo system

3. galvanically isolate the DAC from the PC - optical fiber may be best but seems to cost at least $500 right now; CAT6 will give a lot of isolation -- I use WiFi, which works fine for me

 

biggies are better speakers, room treatments, and finding the best recordings/masterings of your favorite albums

[numlog]

Just now, mansr said:

Foxconn is about as generic as it gets.

your point is?  I simply described the cables, unmarked, poorly molded cables that came with the mobo(generic as it gets) and Foxconn branded cables that were actually bought a few years ago, the main difference you might have missed was that they are much shorter.

 

 

[numlog]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

1. get the PC away from the DAC

2. put the PC on a different AC circuit than the DAC & stereo system

3. galvanically isolate the DAC from the PC - optical fiber may be best but seems to cost at least $500 right now; CAT6 will give a lot of isolation -- I use WiFi, which works fine for me

 

biggies are better speakers, room treatments, and finding the best recordings/masterings of your favorite albums

thanks for the tips

I have the audio equipment on a different outlet in the room

its difficult to seperate it much when using USB, the cable is a good one but really short aswell. The idefender 3 helped with isolation a lot... everything else seems very expensive

 

 

[Ralf11]

Eitr?

 

a few feet will be fine for isolation (except for the cable)

 

or, list the types of inputs/outputs in common for the 2 units...

[sandyk]

38 minutes ago, numlog said:

your point is?  I simply described the cables, unmarked, poorly molded cables that came with the mobo(generic as it gets) and Foxconn branded cables that were actually bought a few years ago, the main difference you might have missed was that they are much shorter.

 

 

Cables such as the attached will make an improvement due to the use of 2 separate shielded cables instead of 7 side by side wires of the usually too long generic cables of yesteryear.

The use of shorter cables will also help to improve airflow and make for a much tidier layout.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SATA-3-III-3-0-DATA-HDD-SSD-Cable-25CM-10-UV-Blue-W-Latch-/110984713671?hash=item19d73455c7

[numlog]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Cables such as the attached will make an improvement due to the use of 2 separate shielded cables instead of 7 side by side wires. The shorter cables will also help to improve airflow and make for a much tidier layout.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SATA-3-III-3-0-DATA-HDD-SSD-Cable-25CM-10-UV-Blue-W-Latch-/110984713671?hash=item19d73455c7

a low cost upgrade, nice! have you got a link to some that ship worldwide/europe? would like to order some

[davide256]

7 hours ago, numlog said:

Apologies in advance if is this is a low quality post. 

So far stripping down the PC to the bare minimum actually slightly improved sound quality which is really surprising .

It included removing the GPU completely and removing all fans, leaving the case open for passive cooling. basically the PC is downgraded severely for tiny (yet valuable) audible improvements but its easily reversible and costs nothing

 

what would be the next most cost effective ways to refine the sound, no matter how insiginificant or inconvienient?

what about externally powering some parts with LPSs? I understand  the mobos onboard regulators and the existing power supply, Corsair CX600M, will greatly reduce the effectiveness but surely it couldnt hurt and will reduce load on primary supply

 

the PC has 3 harddrives, 1 SSD (OS) and 2 HDD (music+other data).

 

Plenty of old threads on building a quiet, low noise PC on CA... you should leaf through the CA academy articles. But since most of can't fabricate our own MOBO, that only

carries you so far. Far easier to convert the machine you have to a Roon core server and buy a microRendu renderer.

[sandyk]

Just now, numlog said:

a low cost upgrade, nice! have you got a link to some that ship worldwide/europe? would like to order some

Just do a search for SATAiii High Speed 6GB/s Data Cable, and you will find heaps of them, mainly from  China.

[numlog]

11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Eitr?

 

a few feet will be fine for isolation (except for the cable)

 

or, list the types of inputs/outputs in common for the 2 units...

The DAC has USB and optical, optical input has very poor sound quality so just sticking to USB. with the idefender im pretty happy.

[numlog]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Just do a search for SATAiii High Speed 6GB/s Data Cable, and you will find heaps of them, mainly from  China.

oh I see , the shielding is standard for all SATAiii cables, thanks.

[numlog]

Got some ASUS SATA cables off a friend who had spares from his mobo, quite long but they really did sound better than my other cables, they are 6Gb/s cables.

if you look at the Pachanko SATA cable specs you'll see its triple shielded, shielding seems to be the key to good SATA cables or really any cable for that matter but SATA are the ones in the hot zone.

with that In mind I decided to add the highly praised JSSG shield to all the cables and results were really good. the JSSG is so versatile, you can shield any cable easily.... then shield it again.

[chauphuong]

3 hours ago, numlog said:

Got some ASUS SATA cables off a friend who had spares from his mobo, quite long but they really did sound better than my other cables, they are 6Gb/s cables.

if you look at the Pachanko SATA cable specs you'll see its triple shielded, shielding seems to be the key to good SATA cables or really any cable for that matter but SATA are the ones in the hot zone.

with that In mind I decided to add the highly praised JSSG shield to all the cables and results were really good. the JSSG is so versatile, you can shield any cable easily.... then shield it again.

Please have a link to the jssg shield. Thanks

[sandyk]

numlog

If you have enough space inside your PC, and use an SSD, a small but worthwhile SQ improvement may be obtained by powering the PSU at the attached link from the 12V internal supply rail. It should be first adjusted to give +5V out, then used to power the SSD.  It can use a cut in half 4 pin Molex to SATA power lead as in the photo to connect it.

Alex

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultra-low-Noise-40-V-Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-Module-Based-on-LT1963/201209828911?hash=item2ed90a562f:g:59EAAOSwo8hTnqYB

 

[KingRex]

Couple comments.  

PC in another room or on the audio rack.  I have had both.  My PC is fed from a linear PS.  I hear no difference with it in my rack as apposed to in another room.

 

I do hear the transformer from the linear PS when the music is not playing when on my rack.

 

I have significantly better SQ with a short USB cable from my server to my DAC than I had with the server in a another room via SPDIF to the DAC.  Let me say again, Significantly better SQ.

 

I heard a micro rendu this week.  My server to DAC has profoundly more body and richness, decay is more sustained giving realism to piano, violin, voices etc.  No comparison.  This was through a Dave DAC.  The Rendu is nice for the money.  If SQ is the goal, go another route.

 

Optical USB?  Why add 2 digital to optical converters?   I have no issues with usb noise with a server having multiple internal PS feeding a DAC with a correctly configured and isolated USB.  My digital is the best it has ever been.

 

I heard a huge improvement in streamed music with a Linear Solution switch in place.  Very noticeable.  Even a little better performance with NAS compared to internal music storage.  To be fair, my operating system ssd and music storage ssd both share the same rail in the server.  I am pretty confident it would equal out if I put an hdplex multirail PS in my server to isolate the drives from each other.  Even better if I just bought a new external 5 volt PS  and fed it to my internal music storage SSD.  

[numlog]

8 hours ago, chauphuong said:

Please have a link to the jssg shield. Thanks

 

sure, here it is:

 

[numlog]

8 hours ago, sandyk said:

numlog

If you have enough space inside your PC, and use an SSD, a small but worthwhile SQ improvement may be obtained by powering the PSU at the attached link from the 12V internal supply rail. It should be first adjusted to give +5V out, then used to power the SSD.  It can use a cut in half 4 pin Molex to SATA power lead as in the photo to connect it.

Alex

 

OS is on the SSD, music is stored on HDD. If you think drive power supply will make a difference would it be better to use a dedicated transformer with this board? could even use dual voltage supply to power both drives or just the HDD to isolate it from PC power as its the only mechanical device left in the PC.