Why do most DACs come with RCA jacks they are inferior

[buonassi]

18 hours ago, mansr said:

GUTB-like

[thefullranger]

This thread was started to try to understand WHY XLR connectors are not included in most units, EX: Focusrite which are used by recording studios and musicians and DJs who mostly use pro sound amplifiers which come with XLR and RCA and some include 1/4" as well, I want to get a DAC with XLR and not have to pay for features I would never use and I know that XLR is the top choice for connection , I never said RCA sucks but that it is the inferior choice of the two connectors. I have used RCA and it sounded great , no complaints , but now that i purchased an amp that recording studios use and muscians use and other pro applications use I want to use it and NOT have to pay through the nose just beause it is included, think the 2 should be standard on ALL DACS

[mansr]

18 minutes ago, thefullranger said:

I never said RCA sucks

That is correct. You said RCA is awful.

[thefullranger]

I said awful, not Sucks...ha ha 

[mansr]

My point is the same, RCA isn't necessarily awful. It can be, but so can XLR. It depends on the circumstances and the quality of the implementation. A single-ended design is easier to get right, within its constraints, and requires fewer parts. That's probably at least part of the reason it tends to be the only choice on budget equipment. Pro/studio equipment has to have balanced connections, so there they are present even on cheap models. That does not, however, make them good. I have a cheap (~$150) Steinberg audio interface that is terrible by any objective measure.

[thefullranger]

Well I just really want one with XLR and RCA and phantom power for a measurement mic and have no need for all the controls want a stripped down unit wih great sound quality and build quality without paying a lot of money say 300.00 or less 

[mansr]

8 minutes ago, thefullranger said:

Well I just really want one with XLR and RCA and phantom power for a measurement mic and have no need for all the controls want a stripped down unit wih great sound quality and build quality without paying a lot of money say 300.00 or less 

I thought you said you were looking for a DAC. For a measurement mic interface, the $100 Focusrite Scarlett Solo might suit you. The $150 Scarlett 2i2 has balanced outputs. I don't have any personal experience with either of these, but I've heard generally good things about Focusrite. I believe @esldude uses a Focusrite interface, though I don't recall the model.

[thefullranger]

I'll look into that, thank you.. someone posted this unit on my first page and it looks really good, but never heard of them and am leary, plus it looks like I would be ordering from China or some place and have never done that and am leary of that too. everyone has heard of Focusrite.

 

shenzhenaudio.com/tempotec-fantasia-d-a-32bit-192khz-

 

[thefullranger]

Scarlette solo and 2i2 both only have RCA 

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, thefullranger said:

I'll look into that, thank you.. someone posted this unit on my first page and it looks really good, but never heard of them and am leary, plus it looks like I would be ordering from China or some place and have never done that and am leary of that too. everyone has heard of Focusrite.

 

shenzhenaudio.com/tempotec-fantasia-d-a-32bit-192khz-

It probably works just fine, provided a) it arrives at all, b) it arrives in one piece, and c) it stays in one piece. Any trouble at all, and you're on your own.

[mansr]

Just now, thefullranger said:

Scarlette solo and 2i2 both only have RCA 

The 2i2 has balanced TRS outputs. The Solo has RCA.

[thefullranger]

Yea, too much risk, but it does look nice

[thefullranger]

guess I looked at it wrong, anyway the 2i2 has 1/4" TRS balanced and could put that on one end of my cables to XLR balanced ? unless it is not good to do,  don't know but looks like the 2i2 may be what I get

[mansr]

Just now, thefullranger said:

guess I looked at it wrong, anyway the 2i2 has 1/4" TRS balanced and could put that on one end of my cables to XLR balanced ? unless it is not good to do,  don't know but looks like the 2i2 may be what I get

You can get/make cables with TRS on one end and XLR on the other, no problem.

[thefullranger]

yea, I get my cables from " Blue Jeans Cable" they sell, Belden wire and NO snake oil !!

[Speedskater]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

A single-ended design is easier to get right, within its constraints,

Many, many audio products get RCA interconnect systems wrong.

It doesn't take a pro quality design balanced interconnect system to beat those RCA systems.

It only takes a few added resistors and capacitors to make a usable balanced interconnect system.

[Panelhead]

  The Focusrite Clarett 4Pre I am using has TRS only. TRS jacks makes it easy to do Single ended or balanced conversion.

  Insert a TRS plug and you have a balanced circuit. Use a TS plug and it is single ended output. All all units are designed to function like this. The negative output is buffered to allow long term shorting to ground.

[buonassi]

Actually, there is quite a big market to choose from.  Didn’t realize you were looking for a microphone or instrument recording interface. Essentially a hobbyist ADC for a daw like pro tools or Logic Pro. 

 

M-audio and behringer make these type of devices and should be readily available as well as inexpensive. 

[esldude]

I have a couple Focusrite units. The discontinued Forte which is very good with a better than average SNR and low distortion which makes it good for measuring electronics.  Also good for using a microphone for measurements.  Used ones are like $200 recently.  It has balanced TRS outputs which as already explained are easy to adapt for single ended connection to RCA or to balanced XLR use.  I also have a Scarlett 18i20.  Similar to the 2i2 though having 8 channels of record and playback.  It works well and though not state of the art specs it does well.  

 

If you really only want one channel I might look at the Audient ID4.  One microphone input, a pair of TRS outputs.  For $199 it has somewhat better specs than the 2i2 though the 2i2 should do what you want.  Now if you also want to use this as a stereo playback DAC then the ID4 won't do for you.  

 

For audio measurements a UMIK 1 USB microphone will connect to a computer via USB and you don't need anything else.  Use it with free REW software and you can do useful measurements.  Then use whichever DAC for playback you prefer. 

[Ralf11]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

My point is the same, RCA isn't necessarily awful. It can be, but so can XLR. It depends on the circumstances and the quality of the implementation. A single-ended design is easier to get right, within its constraints, and requires fewer parts. That's probably at least part of the reason it tends to be the only choice on budget equipment. Pro/studio equipment has to have balanced connections, so there they are present even on cheap models. That does not, however, make them good. I have a cheap (~$150) Steinberg audio interface that is terrible by any objective measure.

 

 

all true - I still regard high end expensive gear that lacks XLR as being not designed well

[elcorso]

5 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Many, many audio products get RCA interconnect systems wrong.

It doesn't take a pro quality design balanced interconnect system to beat those RCA systems.

It only takes a few added resistors and capacitors to make a usable balanced interconnect system.

 

Not so easy to get the right listening gear component BAL (input and input), but I'm not talking about interconnects (cables).

 

I'd being in SE most of my life with no problems but I'm not in the recording industry, with crazy run of cables, which is where the need for BAL originated. Then the audiophile community adapted as the best. Of course the audio gear manufacturers heard this and immediately gave their customers "BAL's pleasure". Is this snake oil? 

 

It is very expensive to build a real BAL (input / output). Without transformers, of course.

 

I've listened to equipment truthfully BAL, but I remained SE ...

 

Roch

[elcorso]

10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

all true - I still regard high end expensive gear that lacks XLR as being not designed well

 

What ...???

 

Roch

[semente]

KISS

[emcdade]

Coincidentally, I saw this thread right before reading the June Stereophile.

 

Check out JA’s measurements of the Aqua Acoustic Formula xHD.  The balanced outputs measured like crap with noticeable distortion while the unbalanced were fine.  This on a $17,000 dac!

 

Side note:  completely over the hype of these NOS R2R DACs and the like.  If that’s what you like more power to you, but no thanks for me.  This one again was overly warm, bloomy, and lacking air.  

[TubeLover]

On 5/10/2018 at 8:29 PM, Speedskater said:

A XLR balanced interconnect system is one thing and a hi-fi component with completely balanced internal circuitry is a very different thing.

Exactly. And also, the number of preamps that you would use the DAC with that have balanced connections is a small percentage of the total. Most are RCA based. Not to mention, if it isn't a truly balanced circuit, it's not providing any better performance, and even fewer of the preamps that feature balanced conenctions are truly balanced!

 

JC