ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[BigGuy]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Lotsa luck trying to terminate that cable into 5.5  x 2.1mm plug !

Been playing around with various 5.5 x 2.1mm  plugs, some with barrels like Oyaide and others just the plug, with AWGs thicker than bell wire.  If not too large, butt splice connectors can be used if they are squashed to fit the tabs and the tabs may need to be trimmed.  Playing off that idea I just bought some thin wall (1/32") copper tubing with IDs of 1/8 and 3/16" to try which hopefully will be easier to make fit over the tabs.  Depending on proximity of + and -, may need to insulate with Teflon (PTFE) plumbing tape, shrink tubing or Teflon spaghetti tubing which has been split for installation.

[bit01]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Lotsa luck trying to terminate that cable into 5.5  x 2.1mm plug !

I am using the plugs with the screw terminals for the evaluation.

[genjamon]

I think what we have here is a simple case of removing one bottleneck in the system and revealing another.

 

If the noise of the regulator/output device is higher than that of the noise pickup in the cabling, I would agree with all of the skepticism expressed.  But the quality of these regulators is now at a point that this is no longer true.

 

These LT3042/45 devices are so low noise that now the noise being picked up in the cabling connecting to the load is the dominant feature in the noise profile, thus making all of these cable changes quite audible. 

 

A good biking friend of mine is a laser physicist who works with very ultra fast lasers, and their ability to test the speed of these lasers and their other characteristics depends upon low noise sensors.  He laughs at me when I talk about the noise specs of our audio equipment, since in his carefully controlled lab environment he and his peers can't get anywhere close to 1uV noise threshold - he says the wiring picks up WAY more noise than that.  

 

What exactly is causing which effects - now that's a good question.  And many ideas have been posited on this thread.  We won't be able to do anything more than this silly game of trial and error unless someone with skill and tools actually properly tests systematically for the effects of geometry, shielding, dielectric, etc on rejection and/or filtration of electrical interference.

[marce]

47 minutes ago, bit01 said:

Nothing wrong with being the skeptic but I wish you could try it and listen for yourself. You might or might not hear any differences. If you ever do please do share your experiences and any science you might think about!

ATB.

Over the years I have tried all this stuff as well as measurements in the past, funnily when I stopped trusting my ears my system improved....

By the same token bring some explanation and measurements to the discussion to prove to yourself and others that the sound changes are all in the mind.....

As said I don't see magic cables in other areas of electronics only in Audiophile audio...

And yes cable differences are measurable, many are far below the threshold of hearing and to have the effects many report the differences will be easily measured.?

[BigGuy]

7 minutes ago, bit01 said:

I am using the plugs with the screw terminals for the evaluation.

Not sure if you are up to speed but the screw-type terminal plugs are wired internally with ~30AWG wire which has very low amperage rating.

[marce]

34 minutes ago, totoxio said:

Yeah I vote for an open minded approach to this CAT for DC discovery. It is very advisable to first listen, not for an hour or two, but at least for a week. My skeptical half says there is an explanation, we just don't know it yet.

Discovery... Nope not without LOTS of empirical data to back it up, a few hearsay comments do not a discovery make. LOL

Its a cable carrying DC it is not an active component, it has some parasitic resistance, capacitance and inductance and it is working at DC.....

[marce]

6 minutes ago, genjamon said:

 

What exactly is causing which effects - now that's a good question.  And many ideas have been posited on this thread.  We won't be able to do anything more than this silly game of trial and error unless someone with skill and tools actually properly tests systematically for the effects of geometry, shielding, dielectric, etc on rejection and/or filtration of electrical interference.

Cables funnily enough play a big part in electronic signal transmission, loads of information out there on cables and signal integrity, a good start would be the work by Oliver Heaviside...

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, bit01 said:

really?

 

Really.

 

If there is residual AC or EMI traveling along the cable then the LPS1.2 is at fault (I don't believe there is residual AC nor significant EMI). If there is radically spikey current draw then the ISO Regen or microRendu are at fault. They would, in that case, need much better capacitance layout and onboard power supplies. If the cables between an LPS1.2 and ISO Regen make a radical difference then yes either or both of the devices are at fault. It would be fairly simple to ensure that, for example, the ISO Regen had constant current draw, especially with all the speculation being bandied about regarding digital switching noise, on board regulators, board layout etc., really hard to imagine that these details haven't been engineered into the device.

 

The quote from @JohnSwenson mentions his listening with a Squeezebox Touch, and he says primarily that increased DC cable gauge reduces inductance ... ok fine ... but a lot of what I'm reading here goes way beyond some of these simple things, and now you need to invoke things that I'd really expect both the LPS1.2 and ISO Regen to have dealt with already, no?

 

And keep the cables short as possible -- there seems to be this idea that some of the cables have some type of magic properties that expand soundstage etc and hence more cable is better.

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hopefully the discussion stays technical and respectful.

 

To summarize a very lengthy thread, he likes low inductance cables particularly star quad. Star quad is very common. Inductance is lowered even more with the shortest cable possible. There is now a discussion of using different brands of star quad microphone cables ... yet this is for a DC power supply not a microphone ...

 

There is no real discussion of measuring cable inductance and correlating that with SQ so he threw this out there ... and yada yada ... I'm more than happy to have a technical discussion.

[pkane2001]

3 hours ago, sandyk said:

 I didn't say that he did.

Both Mansr and Marce have a history of ridiculing numerous confirming reports on this and other subjects in other areas of the forum, even when a high profile E.E. says similar.

 

A high profile EE (JS?) has yet to produce any substantial evidence beyond the 'I thought this system sounded amazing, but with this DC cable it was dramatically improved'. 

 

I also find it curious how one reconciles this 'dramatic improvement' with the recommendations in this thread to listen to the cable for at least a week to make sure you can hear the difference. Maybe not so dramatic? Or does the DC cable have to beak-in for a week? There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical.

 

1 hour ago, totoxio said:

It is very advisable to first listen, not for an hour or two, but at least for a week. 

 

[bit01]

@jabbr. My DIY DC cables are 10-12 inches long which is as short as I can go. I only use the longer ones in the min length they are sold for easy comparisons. The LPS-1.2 & Iso Regen which I own as well as the LPS-1/Regen are great products that I love and enjoy but why would one assume they are perfect under all circumstance? As for tech, measure/correlate, no I am retired several years!

[totoxio]

Yeah, at least for a week... How many of our audio toys end up in the drawer or the classifieds because at the end, we didn't like them that much, when at the begining we were so excited? There's some expectation going on, either for a $15 cable or a $500 device. With this POE thing, the *change* is very noticeable, some people could say dramatic and they are right. But only after a few days one can decide if the change is for good or not. It was for me, but maybe not for everybody. 

[bit01]

1 hour ago, BigGuy said:

Not sure if you are up to speed but the screw-type terminal plugs are wired internally with ~30AWG wire which has very low amperage rating.

thanks - I think they are okay for evaluation purposes and this usage.

[bit01]

1 hour ago, marce said:

Over the years I have tried all this stuff as well as measurements in the past, funnily when I stopped trusting my ears my system improved....

By the same token bring some explanation and measurements to the discussion to prove to yourself and others that the sound changes are all in the mind.....

As said I don't see magic cables in other areas of electronics only in Audiophile audio...

And yes cable differences are measurable, many are far below the threshold of hearing and to have the effects many report the differences will be easily measured.?

All in jest right? What instruments did you use with the system??

Have fun.

ATB

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Lotsa luck trying to terminate that cable into 5.5  x 2.1mm plug !

I've done it several times now. I have to drill out the metal plug sleeve to 9mm. Shrink wrap makes the finished product acceptable.

[totoxio]

2 hours ago, BigGuy said:

Not sure if you are up to speed but the screw-type terminal plugs are wired internally with ~30AWG wire which has very low amperage rating.

 

I use these ones:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079RBL339/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

They are supposed to have a better internal wiring. (Up to 5A according to the second picture)

[mozes]

I am using these plugs. Very good build quality and not expensive like Oyaide

https://www.mouser.ca/access/?pn=502-762&sn=Switchcraft&utm_source=mouseriphoneapp&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=502-762&utm_content=Switchcraft

 

[Ralf11]

Both Mansr and Marce have a history of ridiculing numerous unconfirmed anecdotes on this and other subjects in other areas of the forum, especially when there is no known scientific or engineering basis for the speculation.

 

Many, many other scientists and engineers do the same thing.  The HORROR !!

[Cornan]

To get a good idea of the DC cables impact on SQ I changed my Canare 4S6 w/screw terminal DC plug w/o JSSG to butchered Purephonics with tripple CCC w/Oyiade plug between my balanced & floating 230-12VAC ps>LS-HPULN>LS-HPULN>Brooklyn DAC. No go! The sound was pushed back way too far. Including the singer. Feels unnatural. Next up dual Supra DAC with drain wire loop. Note that this is not a starquad and not a JSSG. Dual twisted pairs with nylon semi-conductice shoeld and a drain wire with a loop between the two cables. Stay tuned for more! ?

 

 

[BigGuy]

59 minutes ago, totoxio said:

 

I use these ones:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079RBL339/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

They are supposed to have a better internal wiring. (Up to 5A according to the second picture)

I bought the Chanzon that you linked and it was the one I dissected to check under the hood...and found the 30AWB wire between the screws and plug.

[BigGuy]

58 minutes ago, mozes said:

I am using these plugs. Very good build quality and not expensive like Oyaide

https://www.mouser.ca/access/?pn=502-762&sn=Switchcraft&utm_source=mouseriphoneapp&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=502-762&utm_content=Switchcraft

 

Did you by chance note is they also have the mating female connector that would be the other end of a JSGT?

[Cornan]

Next up the dual Supra DAC with drain loop.

 

 

Boy what a releif from the Puresonic tripple ccc cable with Oyiade plugs in this spot! The gates of heaven was opened again. A breath of fresh air injected into everything. More music glow. More crisp. More presence. More air. More 3D & 4D but with singer in front. Fibers in loads. Wow! This got to be the best f***ing DC cable that I’ve tried ever! ?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

I am using these plugs. Very good build quality and not expensive like Oyaide

https://www.mouser.ca/access/?pn=502-762&sn=Switchcraft&utm_source=mouseriphoneapp&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=502-762&utm_content=Switchcraft

 

 

Trust me! The Oyiade DC plugs is not better than chinease screw terminal plugs as long as they don’t fail! I have compared them many times and cannot hear a single SQ difference between the two. Sorry! ?

[Cornan]

I wish I could describe the SQ coming my way right now. Listening to Marian Hill - Unusual (MQA) constantly wants me to turn me head around. Feels here. Feels there. Feels everywhere!

[mozes]

1 hour ago, BigGuy said:

Did you by chance note is they also have the mating female connector that would be the other end of a JSGT?

Yes I ordered a couple of female connectors as well