What is the best flooring?

[wgscott]

I realize this is probably one of those questions with no single best answer, but I'll ask it anyway, because my wife wants to replace the current carpeting in our living room, which is where our sound system lives. It is a fairly large room with a "cathedral" ceiling. The main furniture is wood (cherry) and a large leather sofa.

 

So carpet, wood floor, cork floor, tile, cement, dirt, ...?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

As you said there is no best answer to this. I can relay some of my experiences. The best listening room I've ever been in was Winston Ma's. It is completely carpeted. That said, I've been in many listening rooms with hardwood flooring and nice rugs. Either one can work very well.

 

[spacey]

IS the floor below concrete or boards, room size and construction would also help ?.

 

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

As you observed, there are a lot of variables involved.

 

Some room sizes and shapes are better than others.

Wall and window coverings matter too - can you get heavy curtains, etc? do you have book shelves full of book?

Will your wife allow a big thick rug into the room?

 

Eloise

 

[wgscott]

Room is about 20 x 24 ft, high ceilings, currently has a thick rug (wall-to-wall installed carpet, white) with a second persian rug on top of it, whose center forms the third point of an equilateral triangle where the speakers are at the other two verticies. The speakers have been moved a bit further from the wall since this picture was taken. The windows currently only have shades, which are rarely closed. The bookcases are jammed with books. The floor under the carpet is wood, but if we just pulled up the current carpet, we would put down new flooring (wood, possibly cork) but no real plans yet.

 

Link to photos.

 

[Shadorne]

Thick carpet is best. Ideally you want it to be as dead as possible, as your room already looks quite lively. If you install wood then try to get a large thick rug on top. You also appear to be sitting near or close to a wall or even worse - not far from a corner. This is a bad place to sit - try to keep your listening position a minimum 6 to 8 feet from walls. In a room the best place to sit is usually around 40% of the room length from the rear wall behind your head. Book cases are good. Plush furniture is good. Acoustic panels will help too - especially corner base traps - since your room is nearly square you should definitely investigate room modal issues with an analyszer - you probably have a big issue around 40 Hz and again at 80 Hz.

 

People almost always fret about speaker positions but often totally neglect the fact that the listening position is just as important.

 

 

 

[wgscott]

The listening position is actually about in the middle. The photos don't show that.

 

[Shadorne]

Sorry. My bad.

 

[wgscott]

This is an old picture from the previous owner, but it gives the idea:

 

 

 

[aLKayeL]

Ever consider a low wooden platform?

 

You could put some rock wool inside and carpet over the wood.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

It's far better than no flooring, which makes installation (and seating) quite problematic.

 

[cfmsp]

 

"This is a bad place to sit - try to keep your listening position a minimum 6 to 8 feet from walls."

 

this is entirely counter to recommendations of speaker placement experts such as Joachim Gerhard - designer of Audio Physics speakers, and more recently, Sonics - who recommends listener being within 1 - 3 feet of the wall behind.

 

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/audiophysic.html

 

 

 

clay

 

 

 

[ziggyzack]

I found this article very instructive, it would tend to suggest that close proximity to the back wall isn't necessarily the greatest idea.

 

http://www.regonaudio.com/Directional%20Hearing%20How%20To%20Listen%20to%20Stereo.htm

 

ZZ

 

[Nyal Mellor]

@Clay

 

Most locations within a room can be made to sound good. There are no hard and fast rules. A location in the center of the room can be fine if room modes are well damped or parametric EQ is used.

 

@OP

 

Theoretically the best would be to use hardwood floors, and for any furnishings to have a constant absorption coefficient (i.e. they absorb the same amount of incoming sound) down to around 300Hz. In practice this means 3" thick fiberglass. Something like a carpet or rug only absorbs consistently down to around 1kHz, therefore the sound is reflecting from that surface with a difference frequency spectrum than it came in. This causes a loss of clarity and reduces overall sound quality. This theoretical 'only use absorption if it has a constant absorption down to 300Hz' is difficult to achieve in reality without a purpose built room, lots of acoustic treatment or a big refit to integrate treatment into your room's walls and ceiling.

 

So most people use a floor carpet as it provides enough absorption to reduce the room's sound decay time to levels where it doesn't impact sound quality. If you do use a rug, make sure it covers at least the first reflection point of the speakers on the floor and use a thick fiber rug pad.

 

Hope that helps

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

"Most locations within a room can be made to sound good. There are no hard and fast rules. A location in the center of the room can be fine if room modes are well damped or parametric EQ is used."

 

Agreed on "no hard and fast rules", which is why I posted my comments in response to Shardorne's admonition to put the listening position a minimum of 6-8 feet from the wall. Although I will say that, in my experience, the long wall, near-field listening setup with listener position near the rear wall has worked spectacularly for me.

 

More info on the rationale for a nearfield rear wall listening position is contained in the attachment.

 

enjoy,

clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wgscott]

So, another major incident with the (elderly) dog has convinced us that the carpet needs to be replaced, preferably with something we can clean absolutely unmentionable semi-liquid substances from.

 

My wife suggested cork, and much of the rest of the house is wood. Are either of these acoustically acceptable?

 

Any dog-proof suggestions are welcome...

 

 

[CG]

Some of the newer bamboo flooring materials are quite good.

 

With the high ceilings you have, you're going to get loads of reflections anyway just due to the geometry. That may enhance the sound, depending on your tastes.

 

My own experience is that it helps to reduce some of the corner effects by using traps of sorts. They aren't nearly as obtrusive as you might expect and won't break the bank.

 

My only question: With a nice dog like that and the great view out the large windows, why even worry about playing with a stereo system??

 

[wgscott]

You do have a point.

 

We brought home cork samples but I basically decided I hate it. So either we keep the current carpet, get a new carpet, or install a wood or bamboo floor (half the house has oak flooring).

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

It's a myth that bamboo is harder and more durable than "regular" hardwoods -- it's only true of end-grain bamboo. Do not get the side grain bamboo -- it's easy to mark and those marks will not come out, but instead, will discolor and collect dirt.

 

If you have to go with renewables, go with cork.

 

[elcorso]

As an old audiophile I am, had the experience to live in 3 different houses, then 3 very different music room acoustics. I have the good luck to meet (by the internet) a chinese gentlemen who lives in the US (not my case) and we became friends after the years. He is a music lover, and a respected specialist in psychoacoustics, who tunes acoustics in concert halls an buddhist temples in the Far East. He gave me a lot of recommendations based on photos I sent to him. He always says "trust your ears" (he don't use electronic instruments for his job) and compare your reproduced music with real one, as in concerts halls.

 

His main recommendations:

 

The best floor is real solid wood (like Maple) and not the floating one, over concrete, and a wool carpet over it, in front of your speakers in your listening area. Rear wall (behind speakers) has to be soft, like a decorative wool hanging between your speakers at the rear wall. Side walls must be hard. Front wall (behind your listening position) should be medium soft, like soft wood wall, or no wall at all, as in your case. Glass windows curtains must be closed when your seriously listen to music (the shades you have are OK). Wood cathedral ceiling is the best (I envy yours).

Wood furniture is OK, try not to use the metal one, nor glass.

 

With your huge room size you will not have any serious acoustical problems.

 

He insisted in real wool (like persian) instead of synthetic.

 

I did follow his recommendations and I'm very happy with the results.

 

Good luck!

 

[wgscott]

Well that rug the dog is on set us back a fair chunk of change, but it is the real Iranian (Persian) sanction-prohibited McCoy. This is the first time I heard anyone suggest the ceiling was a good thing, also that wood floors would be good. We have wood floors in much of the rest of the house, so it would be a natural thing to put in there. The house is on pillar and post, so no cement except the walls of the foundation. Bookcases are wood, sofa is the finest toxic-gas emitting chinese export available. Rear wall behind speakers is stone (fireplace) and plaster -- not much I can do about that.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

[CG]

"it's only true of end-grain bamboo"

 

Sorry - I should have been more specific. You are correct. That's what been used in industrial applications for a while.

 

[G7]

Some of the best sounding concert halls are that good mainly because of spread and echoes, not because of sound absorbing.

Concerts, which I heard at some Churches, sounded marvelous because of echoes, not because of sound absorbing.

 

There're professional monitors which are specifically made to sound good in sound-insulated spaces of specific sizes.

Hi-end speakers are carefully made for normal rooms, and not for insulated studios.

 

Therefore, my approach is opposite to many of the views I read.

I'd start insulating only if there's a problem. Sometimes, if the room is already quite sound absorbing, removing some absorbing material 'opens' the sound.

 

If I re-floored my living room, I'd have started with a hard floor, and carpeted it only if there was a problem.

 

My living room is large, shaped as an almost 1:2 rectangle. The floor is ceramic tiles, NO carpet. The ceiling is concrete.

The walls are concrete covered with framed Gypsum (Plaster) boards, 1cm (0.4") thick.

This material can resonate at sub woofer frequencies, and it willingly showed me how well it does it. So, before covering walls, I tried the sub at different locations. Luckily, there was a corner where it was perfectly good. There was no need to "fit the room to the sub".

 

Nearly half of one of the long sides is open to a kitchen and a long & large corridor. This creates a large enough 'infinite buffle', while the rest of the room is reflective enough to not introduce dullness by over absorption.

Yes, a large 'L' seating sofa, another sofa, and a large & heavy wooden dining table and carpeted chairs, break the space to some degree.

 

The table next to the L sofa is - against all advice – heavy metal frame with a large & heavy glass plate. There never was any problem with it. When I first installed the system in this room, I looked for problems with that glass. I had put on it (directly on the table) water glasses with various amounts of water. Ceramic coffee cups. Tea spoons – everything I could think of. Increased the volume so the whole neighborhood could party. Nothing ringed. No resonance. I looked for ripples in the water, there was none. The table glass is off the problematic resonance range.

 

There are no heavy drapes, just thin ones, always open. No window glass joins the music.

 

In this room, Wilsons sound great. After some trials, they are on the spikes they came with.

 

Bottom line: I'd begin with no sound absorbing, and add it only if (and as mush as) truly needed.

Speakers are made to sound good in normal rooms, and not in padded spaces.

My Wilson sounds better in my living room than it sounded in the heavily insulated demonstration room.

 

Should I duck? ;-)

 

 

 

[wgscott]

My problem with the carpet is what it absorbs that exits the dog.

 

[elcorso]

G7

 

I agree with you, you need isolation and/or sound absorbing material if you get acoustic problems in your listening room. Large rooms like yours has the less problems, I was trying to help WGSCOTT with his room, looking at the photos he attached, because he asked for assistance.

 

Regarding you like added resonances from your floor and Gypsum (Plaster) boards, I'm sorry but I can't agree with you, because your speakers must reproduce the music as it was recorded, included the concert hall ambience noise and acoustics, if there was echoes and ambience noise in the recording, should be echoes and ambience noise in your reproduced music. But I you like it that way, then your a happy man, and this is the most important thing in life.

 

Regarding "Concerts, which I heard at some Churches, sounded marvelous because of echoes, not because of sound absorbing." Yes, but this are natural echoes from the Church. In your listening room echos from the walls and floor, are added, then artificial ones.

 

I replay to you because you can confuse some of the readers since your biassed statements and personal taste, and NOT to establish a personal discussion. And, no, I don't think your against the mainstream.

 

Happy listening!