R2R DAC owners and lovers

[leftside]

Another vote for Lampizator Atlantic. Sometimes appear on the used market.

[mordante]

I have a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC with the latest USB gen 5 upgrade. I compared it to a Metrum DAC. Each was about 1250euro.

 

I bought the Schiit IMHO is was a bit more dynamic lively I listen to rock and metal. The Metrum was a bit dull. The Metrum might be better when you listen to Jazz (trio) or simple music (not many instruments).

[buonassi]

9 hours ago, mordante said:

the Schiit IMHO is was a bit more dynamic lively I listen to rock and metal.

This is good to know.  I listen to prog rock/metal.  I generally prefer a minimum phase filter on my DAC because of all the transients in my chosen music, so the Schiit products didn't appeal to me.  I even had their Mimby, entry level MB DAC for about a year, and it was OK. No big eye opener.

 

But if the transient attack is there on Gumby, I may have to reconsider.  Would you know if the DAC is still dynamic even if the closed form filter they use is bypassed?  IE If I feed the Gumby PCM upsampled in software, will it still retain that "slam"? 

[atmfrank]

I am a proud owner of a low-budget R2R NOS DAC setup involving a TDA1387 setup with Raspberry base. I find it amazing how the sound quality appears to be more pleasing than many sigma/delta based DAC's. I compare it with ES9018 based designs ($1k range). The tech specs of the TDA1387 don't suggest superiority, but in the end, the audible results matter more to my ears. Huge soundstage, high resolution but vinyl-like warmth, high dynamic. The circuit design appears very simple with 2x4 1387 chips in series. Music listening range is from acoustic jazz, classic/prog/alternative rock, EDM, electronica and it all sounds addictively better.

 

(Other equipment: McCormack pre-amp/amp, Dynaudio, Gustard X20u, Chord Mojo, Dragonfly, Sennheiser 660s, Grado RS2e)

[opus101]

There are TDA1387 designs coming up from the DIY quarter - on this thread there's PCB data you can download for free to get your own boards made : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/313395-tda1387-dac-pcb-front.html

 

I have a design with TDA1387 called 'lingDAC' which I talk about here : https://hackaday.io/project/27001-audiophile-sounding-dac-for-almost-no-money

 

I agree with your subjective impressions @atmfrank - the primary advantage of my own lingDAC's sound compared to the mainstream S-D DACs is in the realm of dynamics.

[mordante]

9 hours ago, buonassi said:

This is good to know.  I listen to prog rock/metal.  I generally prefer a minimum phase filter on my DAC because of all the transients in my chosen music, so the Schiit products didn't appeal to me.  I even had their Mimby, entry level MB DAC for about a year, and it was OK. No big eye opener.

 

But if the transient attack is there on Gumby, I may have to reconsider.  Would you know if the DAC is still dynamic even if the closed form filter they use is bypassed?  IE If I feed the Gumby PCM upsampled in software, will it still retain that "slam"? 

 

I don't have have any experience with upsampling. I don't use a computer for streaming. I use a Auralic Aries LE. But I think a large part of the quality of Schiit multibit dacs comes from the closed form filter. So if you upsample your music before sending it to a DAC I doubt that Schiit would be the best choice.

[buonassi]

Today, I officially joined the 2R2 club - NOS at that!  I ended up purchasing a used Metrum Amethyst.  Will report back after I have a few weeks with it. 

[med_designer]

amfrank - Good to read you found an R2R that is working for you. Agree on the 'more pleasing ' comment. It is very interesting how the same CD from the same transport and interface can sound so different from one of my DS based DACs to the new R2R DAC. Not 100% sure which DAC you found. Please provide link for make/model.

 

buonassi - Welcome to the R2R club and the NOS crowd. Somewhat niche but I am finding it rewarding. My Mojo Audio V3 is still breaking in. Definitely experiment with the different inputs. I had been using the optical in while my new SPDIF cable arrived. While I know it is controversial in some threds as to interface choice and if cables make a difference, my experience says it does. Definitely experiment to see what you like best. Adding link to your DAC so folks can easily reference it. Please report back your findings.

 

https://metrumacoustics.com/amethyst-det/

 

Current personal take home point: While new tech is interesting, I am currently finding more thoughtful implementations of older topologies in both the analog and digital realms is yielding more satisfying results. Even my friends and family members comment on the positive changes and they don't care about any of this stuff. When the untrained ear can pick out the change then we must be on to something.

 

 

[atmfrank]

@med_designer  The DAC in reference is an Audiophonics I-TDA1387 custom design for Raspberry Pi. The board itself is ridiculously inexpensive (€60 +s/h). I am using it in combination with a KALI I2S re-clocker board from Allo, which is supposed to reduce jitter errors by replacing the RPI clock source. There is a plethora of blogs discussing the various technical aspects of DIY/Raspberry based designs (a good one is Archimago's Musings and of course @opus101), but in the end, I let my ears do the judgements. It is very intriguing to follow the DAC/digital design developments over the years, now going back to design choices that simplify the processing with a reduced component count. Yes, of course, this isn't always the best choice, but a good starting point. I am equally intrigued by the design work behind Shiit and Chord (for example) and I am sure readers here have good opinions about their favourite products. 

 

BTW, I think the Audiophonics board comes from the same Chinese source (TeraDak, TDA1387). The only difference, one less parallel filter stage, smaller board, same components. To be had for $23 +s/h on Ebay.  The audible results are very close to the Audiophonics board. Be amazed. 

 

[butifull01]

I have many famous multibit ladder DACs.

 

Here is my DACs list :

 

1. Trinity Designs Trinity DAC

 

2. TotalDAC d1-Six

 

3. Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD and La Scala MK II Optologic

 

4. LampizatOr Golden Atlantic

 

5. Denafrips Terminator

 

6. Holo Audio Spring Lv. 3 Kte

 

7. Schiit Audio Yggdrasil

 

 

In CA, it seems that Spring Lv 3 KTE and Yggdrasil are the most popular.

 

Two DACs are wonderful.

 

But they are all cost-effective products.

 

As my thought, cheap relatively and the best DAC is Terminator.

 

Highly recommended~!

[t_ram]

@butifull01

 

How would you describe what you hear between the Terminator and Golden Atlantic? 

[FredericV]

I use the Metrum Adagio flagship model. Very happy with it.

[butifull01]

5 hours ago, t_ram said:

@butifull01

 

How would you describe what you hear between the Terminator and Golden Atlantic? 

This is just my thought~!!

 

I call Golden Atlantic as Bass Idiot.

 

Golden Atlantic's bass amount is too much, so mid-range and treble are damaged by bass.

 

And entire resolution is too low.

 

Just Bass machine

 

Among upper DACs, the best choice is to buy Formula xHD.

 

If you think Formula is too expensive, next best choice is to buy Terminator.

 

^^

[natemact]

There's a Terminator that just popped up on Canuck Audio Mart here

[PleasantSounds]

I was going to get the Yggy but after testing a few DACs in my system I ended up getting the Metrum Menuet.

 

In this price range most DACs do most things right, so it's down to preferences and synergy with the rest of the system.

 

[Nepherte]

Happy owner of a Totaldac d1-dual. Heard many dacs mentioned here (La Scala, Formula, Holo Audio Spring, Yggdrasil, MSB, Dave). None of them convinced me to get rid of mine. Plan on upgrading to the d1-six later this year. I'd say price is about the only thing that's holding people back. So maybe not the best price / quality ratio.

[Torq]

I was on a similar "quest" to find a new, preferably, R-2R (multi-bit) DAC a while back.  I'm not going to link to it, as I think that'd be poor form for a first-post in a community I'm new to, but I wrote up a bunch of comparisons with many DACs to what had become my "reference" DAC at the time.

 

To answer the OP's initial questions.

 

The R-2R DAC I started with was the Schiit Yggdrasil.  I was extremely happy with it - but it kick-started a desire to see if there was anything better, which led to a multi-month series of auditions of a pretty broad variety of high-end DACs, with a bias towards things that were not just run-of-the-mill D/S data-sheet designs.

 

At one point I had two Yggdrasils.  I'm back down to one now, which has been upgraded to "Analog 2" and "USB Gen 5" status.  I'm still very happy with it, and it lives in my office rig.

 

Did I buy a "NOS" R-2R DAC?  Not initially, but I did add one, specifically the Holo Audio Spring DAC KTE/Level 3, since it did somethings either better, or interestingly-different to Yggdrasil.  I ran that, side-by-side, with my Yggdrasil for quite a while.

 

Chip vs. discrete?  It's all in the implementation ... but most of the "discrete" units I've heard have fallen short on some level.  The Holo Audio Spring DAC, the Soekris dac1421 and dac1541, Metrum Pavane (L1 & the new L3) have all been excellent, however.

 

In my primary rig I wound up retiring both Yggdrasil and Spring DAC in favor of a Chord DAVE.  But I keep an Analog 2/USB Gen 5 Yggdrasil in the office (which probably gets more listening time anyway).  If I had to buy a different R-2R DAC (or at least a multi-bit design), I'd be looking at things like the Aqua Formula, the upcoming "May" DAC from Holo Audio, or poking around MSB or dCS.

 

 

[matthias]

19 minutes ago, Torq said:

I'm not going to link to it, as I think that'd be poor form for a first-post in a community I'm new to, but I wrote up a bunch of comparisons with many DACs to what had become my "reference" DAC at the time.

 

Hi Torq,

I enjoyed very much the bunch of comparisons.......

Welcome here on the forum!

 

Matt

[jaaptina]

I'm looking at the Audio gd r2r 11. At 349 Euro it must be the cheapest r2r today. However it's almost a year on the market and it already seems to be forgotten. Just a few old post on Head-fi. Seems one would be better of with the popular (not r2r) Pro-Ject pre box S2. Any one knows why the Audio gd r2r 11 isn't popular? 

[natemact]

3 hours ago, Torq said:

....first-post in a community I'm new to....

Surreal to see the moniker of "Newbie" associated with this fella! While I would poke my head around here occasionally, I've been a veteran lurker of his take on the hobby elsewhere and can't think of another's opinion I trust more. You guys are in for a treat, albeit a slightly salty one : ) Clearly not the best venue to show my appreciation but it would be weird if none of this post was addressed to you...so thanks Torq for all you've done to help fellow enthusiasts make informed buying decisions while also keeping it entertaining when called for with your parched and crispy brand of humor...some of them were just asking for it. All the best to ya!

[Solstice380]

On 5/26/2018 at 2:06 PM, butifull01 said:

Golden Atlantic's bass amount is too much, so mid-range and treble are damaged by bass.

 

I don’t find that to be the case at all.  When I first received it I thought I made a big mistake because it was lean with not much in the bottom end.  Then it smoothed out and has become well balanced.  That is with the KR 5U4G rectifier.   With a 274B recti it gets a little bloomy, but never does it overpower the mids.  My comparison is the Debussy and McIntosh D150 listed in the sig.

[Torq]

7 hours ago, jaaptina said:

Any one knows why the Audio gd r2r 11 isn't popular? 

 

I'd love to say something positive about it, particularly after my experience with it's "spiritual predecessor and 'big' brother", (the Singularity S19) but the problem is ... I've heard it.

 

At best I can say, "for people that like that sort of thing; it's the sort of thing they like.".

[hurka]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 2:06 AM, butifull01 said:

This is just my thought~!!

 

I call Golden Atlantic as Bass Idiot.

 

Golden Atlantic's bass amount is too much, so mid-range and treble are damaged by bass.

 

And entire resolution is too low.

 

Just Bass machine

 

Among upper DACs, the best choice is to buy Formula xHD.

 

If you think Formula is too expensive, next best choice is to buy Terminator.

 

^^

http://hifi.co.kr/1183109

the Boutique is full!!!!

[butifull01]

8 hours ago, hurka said:

http://hifi.co.kr/1183109

the Boutique is full!!!!

 

How did you find my system??

 

Are you Korean?

 

The picture of your link is my main system.

 

Now, I added Entreq Olympus eartha boxes and cables.

 

Also, I changed components footers, audio rack, and speakers shoes. (All is Korean [HI FI Stay flagship products])

 

HI FI Stay's WBF Thread

 

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?24302-Hard-Point-Trinia-footers-very-impressed

[med_designer]

Torq - Welcome to CA. Thanks for your input and experience with R2R. I had looked at a few FPGA based DACs and will most likely get one at some point. I ended up with my NOS R2R as I wanted to try somethings whose lot in life only did D/A and did not take on other duties like a preamp or a streamer of some sort. My closest dealer is 250 miles away so I did not have an opportunity to audition the Chord. I had read about it and it is interesting how some like the Dave while others like the PS Audio DirectStream DAC. I almost purchased it over my Mojo Audio v3. The deciding factor to give it a try was after speaking with the designer at length it felt it was closest to one of my all time favorite DACS an Apogee DA1000E-20 from the late 90's.

 

For reference, this is the Apogee DA1000E-20. The bottom unit was it's DC power supply. Should of hung on to it. The DACs outer aluminum casing was very warm to the touch. All the electronics were packed tightly. 

 

This later became the DA2000 which was the basis of the Cello Reference DAC shown below.For what it is worth I loved Cello electronics and speakers. Never had a chance to own them but had a local dealer in the mid 90s. Damm am old. 

 

 

Both use a Burr Brown/Texas Instruments PCM63P-K 20-bit. My Mojo Audio v3 uses Analog Devices AD1862 20-bit DAC