Sprout 100 ? NAD D 3020 ? Vidar ? Stellar S300

[RMMN]

Hello,

 

I would like to become an audiophile as a new hobby. I don’t know that much about amplifiers and speakers at the audiophile level. May humbly ask the more experienced  members of the forum for their opinion and recommendations?

 

SETUP:

I will be running with the Elac Uni-fi UF5 speakers. As a start, I’ll be your playing from my iPhone from Apple Music to Airport Express:output 3.5 mm Jack or mini tosslink.

 

AMP:

I need help choosing an amp:

 

Sprout 100 ?

New Version to come out in May.  I won’t be using vinyl.

 

NAD D 3020 ?

 

Vidar ?

Looking at the specs/price this is impressive.

 

Stellar S300?

 PS audio claims this is very good. Class A —> Class D.

 

Any experience/recommendations you can share with me will help.

Thank you.

[GUTB]

Your source is no good, you'll at the very least want to connect your phone to a DAC to feed the rest of the system.

 

All of the amp choices listed here are no good EXCEPT for the Vidar: the reason being that it is class A/B. Class D is junk, avoid.

 

IPhone + camera connection kit for lightning to USB 

Modi Multibit.

Vidar

 

That will get you started.

[RMMN]

Thanks GUTB!

In summary:

use a real high resolution source (not Airplay),

use a DAQ,

use a class A,B amp (but no D).

 

[Nordkapp]

Go and get yourself a nice integrated amp with an built-in DAC. Check out the Creek EVO 50A with the built in RUBY DAC. I once owned the EVO 50A. Its a very nice product, well built with a class A/B amp. This is a good starting point if you are on a budget. 

[Ralf11]

Welcome - the first rule of computeraudio.com is to ignore GUTB, or take his posts with many grains of salt...

 

You are going to want an external DAC at some point.  And it will make a bigger SQ difference than the amp.

 

Now, amps - the 3020 is highly regarded but is not a newer design.

 

The PS audio gain cell amps are also highly regarded and I have been looking into them myself.

 

Schiit is famed for high performance at reasonable prices, but at least some people have had mechanical noise from the Vidar.  I crossed it off my list.  But my list is not your list...

 

You didn't post a budget but on would help people help you.  If it includes a $3,000 amp then the Benchmark is formidable.

 

Lot of posts in various threads but you'll need to search them out.

 

Do you have mp3 files?  If so, can I convince you to replace them with Apple Lossles or replace some of them?

 

 

[Ralf11]

I like the Creek - great idea.  100W version also - Creek Evo series.

[Nordkapp]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

I like the Creek - great idea.  100W version also - Creek Evo series.

Yup. Its an awesome little unit..

[GUTB]

6 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Welcome - the first rule of computeraudio.com is to ignore GUTB, or take his posts with many grains of salt...

 

 

 

 

Everyone ignores you; it's a not a rule, though.

[Nordkapp]

Now now boys. Let's try to keep this one civilized.....He's trying to become an audiophile. Don't scare him away. 

[psjug]

Don't be afraid to go with used gear.  You can get nice stuff and save a boatload of money.  On speakers, it sounds like you already decided, but you should make sure you are getting something that will work well with your room.  My rooms are difficult, so I like stand-mounted and front ported speakers and subs.

[sockpit]

If you want to learn about their love lives, I can direct you to the (ir)relevant thread . . . ?

[Ralf11]

Here is a thread on $200 DACs:

 

you don't need it if you get the Ruby plugin for the Creek Evo 50 or 100

 

[RMMN]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Welcome - the first rule of computeraudio.com is to ignore GUTB, or take his posts with many grains of salt...

 

You are going to want an external DAC at some point.  And it will make a bigger SQ difference than the amp.

 

Now, amps - the 3020 is highly regarded but is not a newer design.

 

The PS audio gain cell amps are also highly regarded and I have been looking into them myself.

 

Schiit is famed for high performance at reasonable prices, but at least some people have had mechanical noise from the Vidar.  I crossed it off my list.  But my list is not your list...

 

You didn't post a budget but on would help people help you.  If it includes a $3,000 amp then the Benchmark is formidable.

 

Lot of posts in various threads but you'll need to search them out.

 

Do you have mp3 files?  If so, can I convince you to replace them with Apple Lossles or replace some of them?

 

 

  

Hi Ralph11, Thank you for your input on the Vidar mechanical noise. I appreciate! 

 

I didn’t know a DAC made such a difference,  but I hear a lot of people saying so. Ken Rockwell said the Airport Express had a good DAC (https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm). Anyway if a make my system modular I can always upgrade one component at a time.

 

My budget for electronics is: $2300. (It’s a hobby so typically it grows over time :-)

 

I think I might just get the PS Audio Stellar S300 just to be safe.  I’ll put a simple preamp for volume control as a start, and use the Airport express that I already have to get me started.

 

Thanks for the guidance on mp3 files: I am streaming from Apple Music (256 kbps AAC I think), but I plan on switching to Tidal after I get my system (not sure how that is going to work). Streaming is convenient. If at all possible I’d like to continue that way but if it becomes a necessity I could setting up a Mac mini as a dedicated music server (I have a mini laying around, but this sounds like a lot of work).

[RMMN]

2 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

Go and get yourself a nice integrated amp with an built-in DAC. Check out the Creek EVO 50A with the built in RUBY DAC. I once owned the EVO 50A. Its a very nice product, well built with a class A/B amp. This is a good starting point if you are on a budget. 

Thanks Nordkapp.  I added it to my list of candidates.

[Ralf11]

if you just rip a CD onto your mac it is very little work - just use iTunes; rip it to Apple Lossless, then get an Apple TV # (an older one) and plug it in to your DAC - that's what I do and it works well

 

you can just do this with your favorite albums - at least at first

 

generally, I think a DAC will make a bigger difference than different amps (as long as they don't clip)

 

Apple products usually have fairly good DACs - it is all relative, but I expect $500 would get you a DAC that makes the SQ a lot better (get one you can return and send it back if not)

 

One big caution - Ken Rockwell is not a good source, esp. for photography if you are a photographer

 

[Ralf11]

I almost bought the Creek Evo 100 - to give you an idea of its 'level' I decided to stay with a tube pre-amp and got an Audio Research LS25 Mk II (used for $2,500 - new it was about $5k)  I am not sure my setup sounds better than the Creek...

[Nordkapp]

I always wanted the LS25. Had to settle for the SP16. 

[RMMN]

2 hours ago, psjug said:

Don't be afraid to go with used gear.  You can get nice stuff and save a boatload of money.  On speakers, it sounds like you already decided, but you should make sure you are getting something that will work well with your room.  My rooms are difficult, so I like stand-mounted and front ported speakers and subs.

Hi psjug,  thank you for your suggestion. You are  saying for a smaller room, a bookshelf speaker would work better than a floorstanding speaker. I didn’t think about that. Thanks!

[Nordkapp]

Look at the Schiit Freya and the CIAUDIO PLC MKII passive preamp. Both are stellar options for preamp. If you go with a passive pre, just make sure your source has adequate output voltage (minimum 2V) and you keep cable lengths short. 

[psjug]

44 minutes ago, RMMN said:

Hi psjug,  thank you for your suggestion. You are  saying for a smaller room, a bookshelf speaker would work better than a floorstanding speaker. I didn’t think about that. Thanks!

I didn't mean to say the floorstanders were not right if the room lends itself to them.  But if you have tricky door/window locations, or the room is multi-use, or whatever, then smaller front-ported speakers might be easier to make work with the room.

[RMMN]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

if you just rip a CD onto your mac it is very little work - just use iTunes; rip it to Apple Lossless, then get an Apple TV # (an older one) and plug it in to your DAC - that's what I do and it works well

 

you can just do this with your favorite albums - at least at first

 

generally, I think a DAC will make a bigger difference than different amps (as long as they don't clip)

 

Apple products usually have fairly good DACs - it is all relative, but I expect $500 would get you a DAC that makes the SQ a lot better (get one you can return and send it back if not)

 

One big caution - Ken Rockwell is not a good source, esp. for photography if you are a photographer

 

 

Ralf11, I’ll rip a CD to ALAC tomorrow in iTunes, and cast it to my Apple TV and Airport Express to see what I get. Thanks for the idea!

[BigAlMc]

Hi @RMMN, and welcome!

 

I've got the PS Audio M700 monoblocks and they are fantastic for the money. So the S300 should be very good as well. 

 

I also like the Creek Evo suggestion. 

 

Depends on your budget but if looking for an integrated amp with inbuilt DAC then Hegel do so very musical sounding amps. 

 

Buying used to maximise your budget is a good shout too. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[adamdea]

10 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

Now now boys. Let's try to keep this one civilized.....He's trying to become an audiophile. Don't scare him away. 

On the other hand, it might be the kindest thing.

[Sunflower_sutra]

Hi RMMN,

 

Been a long time lurker of this forum but just signed up to give you some advice. I'll run through your choices quickly and then give you some general advice at the bottom.

 

Sprout 100 ? Personally would stay away from this.

 

NAD D 3020 ? It's fun but underpowered I got bored of it quickly just powering 50w speakers. 

 

Vidar ? This is a power amp don't underestimate the importance of the preamp

 

Stellar S300? The same as the vidar. If you don't have a decent preamp your not going to get the most out of these. The volume control surspingly has a big impact on the quality of sound. 

 

Anyhow welcome to the hobby! My general advice would be to consider where you are going to go with this equipment in the future if this is just the start for you i.e upgrade paths, you would hit dead ends very quickly with the first two amps. My other bit of advice is don't bother with a amp that has a inbuilt DAC in it. What's the point? Your only going to want to upgrade the dac in a year so your going to then end up with a separate dac which is wasteful. Stick to a good quality amp that doesn't waste itself with fancy add-ons. Don't be afraid of the used market, also consider 0% finance as can make things easier.

 

Also this may sound very stupid but maybe save up till you've got to the point where your like this is crazy money to spend, then get something. as you'll be in love with that setup for years because you know you wouldn't be able to afford anything more or better. I am saying that as upgradeitis is a itchy pain in the arse and buyers remorse is even worse. So possible solution till you save up more is too buy really good headphones and a headphone amp/dac which could keep you happy for a while and be cheaper plus if you look after headphones they will probably last you longer then a budget 2.0 stereo. 

[RMMN]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

got the PS Audio M700 monoblocks and they are fantastic for the money. So the S300 should be very good as well. 

Hi Alan! Thank you for the feedback on the PS audio Class A/D amplifier. It’s  hard to find reviews of this gear so that’s great to hear you like it !  I hear a lot I hate about class D. That’s reassuring, as I am leaning towards getting the S300.