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Asus Essence OR Audioquest Dragonfly Red?


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I'm considering these 2 DACs.

My amp is a 120Wx2 NAD C370 and my speakers are B&W 602 S3.

By Asus Essence I mean either the Essence ST, the STX or the most recent STX II.

Have you been able to compare them against each other? In that case, what's your opinion?

Are there any other DACs that I should consider in this price range? (around 200$)

What do you think?

 
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Hi FredericV,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Have you been able to compare them both? I haven't found any reviews comparing them so it would be good if someone could share their impressions on these two.

 

Isn't it true that an internal soundcard would be subject to jitter and other artifacts which an external DAC would avoid?

 

They cost roughly the same (200$).

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6 minutes ago, textsurfer2000 said:

Hi FredericV,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Have you been able to compare them both? I haven't found any reviews comparing them so it would be good if someone could share their impressions on these two.

 

Isn't it true that an internal soundcard would be subject to jitter and other artifacts which an external DAC would avoid?

 

They cost roughly the same (200$).


Essence STX II outperforms my 2000 euro MQA dac. Can't name it as it would be damaging for the brand.

Dragonfly is a device that is very cheap to produce, sold at an incredible markup. I know the margin they make but I can't bash them by posting it here. Some of my resellers sell AQ cables with our product. So I know the incredible margin on these products.

Asus has oven controlled clock, decent regulators and sounds like a 3000$ standalone DAC. It has an IT margin, so you get more tech for the same money.

Standalone version of the card:
https://www.asus.com/News/1gZSBOGI4V0aJE9N

“The Essence III has features that are typically the preserve of very-high-end headphone amplifiers. Its performance is as clean and incisive as the engineering, with an honest and compelling sound that puts many traditional Hi-Fi marques to shame,” said EISA President Jorge Gonçalves.
 

Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist

Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing.

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Your system is very entry level so I'd say the difference isn't going to be that big of a deal between 2 low end DACs but the Asus looks like a more serious DAC. Neither will perform well from a PC noise perspective.

 

You'll find plenty of people willing to promote whater low-end / entry level DAC you can bring forward. However I always recommend re-considering the budget to include a serious DAC. In this case though the system is so entry level I would instead suggest investing in a general upgrade. 

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On 19/4/2018 at 8:08 PM, FredericV said:


Essence STX II outperforms my 2000 euro MQA dac. Can't name it as it would be damaging for the brand.

Dragonfly is a device that is very cheap to produce, sold at an incredible markup. I know the margin they make but I can't bash them by posting it here. Some of my resellers sell AQ cables with our product. So I know the incredible margin on these products.

Asus has oven controlled clock, decent regulators and sounds like a 3000$ standalone DAC. It has an IT margin, so you get more tech for the same money.

Standalone version of the card:
https://www.asus.com/News/1gZSBOGI4V0aJE9N

“The Essence III has features that are typically the preserve of very-high-end headphone amplifiers. Its performance is as clean and incisive as the engineering, with an honest and compelling sound that puts many traditional Hi-Fi marques to shame,” said EISA President Jorge Gonçalves.
 

 

 

If the STX II outperforms a 2000 euro dac, that says a lot about DACs in general.

 

I'm beginning to think that there's a lot of marketing behind the Dragonfly...

 

Thanks for your input.

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21 hours ago, dean70 said:

With the right op-amps, RFI shielding & grounding Essence ST/STXII is a great DAC. I use an Essence ST with mch add-on card for htpc duties & it blows away the Integra receiver it replaced.

 

 

Thanks for your reply dean70.

 

What do you mean with "mch add-on card" if I may ask? And what op-amps would you recommend for this? Should them be available at any electronic parts store?

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, lucretius said:

I'd be concerned with noise traveling from the computer through the sound card, through the RCA cables and into the speakers. I'll never use an internal sound card (especially with single-ended cables) ever again.

 

Thanks for your reply lucretius.

 

That's my concern as well. I would like to know how much this would affect the sound from someone who has already tested it.

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I've owned the PCI  version of the Asus Essence and the Dragonfly 1.2, neither was a good choice. The Asus is bus powered by your PC and compromised by that electrical environment. Its pleasant enough, has the guts to drive inefficient headphones but it cannot overcome the PC environment it lives in, your going to have to invest in a high quality PS like HDPlex and other tweaks if you want the promised performance out of it.  AQ Dragonfly is detailed, better isolated but lacks "guts" in its playback of acoustical music. If you want a credible audiophile quality DAC, you should start with something like the Chord Mojo or spend more on a Schiit Gumby. Othewise, well guess we can look forward to seeing your choice on the used market in 6 months.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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31 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Your system is very entry level so I'd say the difference isn't going to be that big of a deal between 2 low end DACs but the Asus looks like a more serious DAC. Neither will perform well from a PC noise perspective.

 

You'll find plenty of people willing to promote whater low-end / entry level DAC you can bring forward. However I always recommend re-considering the budget to include a serious DAC. In this case though the system is so entry level I would instead suggest investing in a general upgrade. 

 

Thanks for your reply GUTB,

 

According to some ABX tests, my NAD C370 amplifier is indiscerneable from a +20.000$ Mark Levinson setup.

Source: http://matrixhifi.com/contenedor_mlnad.htm (Google Translate works reasonably well here)

 

Also, the C370 has been featured here:

 

The best stereo amplifiers of the 21st century

https://www.whathifi.com/features/best-stereo-amplifiers-21st-century

 

That's why I don't believe much in "high-end" audiophilia but in making the best out of a decent though not stratospherical budget: as FredericV already noted above, a 200$ soundcard can outperform a 2000$ dedicated DAC.

 

I know it's hard to swallow but there are plenty of ABX tests more out there.

 

http://matrixhifi.com/pruebasciegas.htm

 

Incidentally, at that page there's also an ABX test about these two DACs.

 

This one is my favourite: a +2000$ Audionote DAC-3 versus a 20$ Sony Discman

 

audionote_dac3_peq.jpg vs. sony_e775_peq.jpg

 

http://matrixhifi.com/contenedor_discmandac3.htm

 

90% of the people FOUND that they sounded different in this ABX test: all of them prefered the Sony Discman. 9_9

 

 

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44 minutes ago, textsurfer2000 said:

 

Thanks for your reply GUTB,

 

According to some ABX tests, my NAD C370 amplifier is indiscerneable from a +20.000$ Mark Levinson setup.

Source: http://matrixhifi.com/contenedor_mlnad.htm (Google Translate works reasonably well here)

 

Also, the C370 has been featured here:

 

The best stereo amplifiers of the 21st century

https://www.whathifi.com/features/best-stereo-amplifiers-21st-century

 

That's why I don't believe much in "high-end" audiophilia but in making the best out of a decent though not stratospherical budget: as FredericV already noted above, a 200$ soundcard can outperform a 2000$ dedicated DAC.

 

I know it's hard to swallow but there are plenty of ABX tests more out there.

 

http://matrixhifi.com/pruebasciegas.htm

 

Incidentally, at that page there's also an ABX test about these two DACs.

 

This one is my favourite: a +2000$ Audionote DAC-3 versus a 20$ Sony Discman

 

audionote_dac3_peq.jpg vs. sony_e775_peq.jpg

 

http://matrixhifi.com/contenedor_discmandac3.htm

 

90% of the people FOUND that they sounded different in this ABX test: all of them prefered the Sony Discman. 9_9

 

 

 

Those old ABX tests are highly suspect. The claims made are ludicrous to anyone who has experience actually listening to these systems. For example I just came back from AXPONA where I heard a Mark Levinson No. 585 (much less than 20k) and it was massively better than my NAD, which itself is not bad. My NAD was $250 used, and it clearly inferior to my current reference a pair of Linnenberg Allegro monoblocks for $5400. In fact the ML was so good I’m considering picking up a used unit for around 6-7k. But at this price range other options open up, like a FM Acoustics clone from China around 5k. I’m not saying you have to spend as much as I do, but you have to adjust budget upwards to get something at least serious.

 

The idea that a discman sounds no better than a high end DAC is so absurd even the non-audiophiles here can easily debunk it from thier own meager experiences.

 

 

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4 hours ago, textsurfer2000 said:

 

Thanks for your reply dean70.

 

What do you mean with "mch add-on card" if I may ask? And what op-amps would you recommend for this? Should them be available at any electronic parts store?

 

 

This The STXII has something similar. I used LT1213CN8 for I/V and LME49860NA for buffer, better detail than the standard op-amps without the digital glare (and good CMRR/PSRR which is important for a PC card). The more recent cards may work better with other combos.

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Lol at this thread. All the typical characteristics of audiophile horseshit are all here;

 

On 4/19/2018 at 2:00 PM, FredericV said:

Asus will blow away the cheapo AQ

 

Someone bought a new Asus sound card recently. 

 

On 4/19/2018 at 5:29 PM, dean70 said:

With the right op-amps, RFI shielding & grounding Essence ST/STXII is a great DAC. I use an Essence ST with mch add-on card for htpc duties & it blows away the Integra receiver it replaced.

 

 

Phenominal kit,  but only for those that have been enlightened!

 

6 hours ago, GUTB said:

Your system is very entry level so I'd say the difference isn't going to be that big of a deal between 2 low end DACs but the Asus looks like a more serious DAC. Neither will perform well from a PC noise perspective.

 

You'll find plenty of people willing to promote whater low-end / entry level DAC you can bring forward. However I always recommend re-considering the budget to include a serious DAC. In this case though the system is so entry level I would instead suggest investing in a general upgrade. 

 

Obligatory system insult by someone who has just upgraded from this class of equipment most likely. 

 

6 hours ago, davide256 said:

I've owned the PCI  version of the Asus Essence and the Dragonfly 1.2, neither was a good choice. The Asus is bus powered by your PC and compromised by that electrical environment. Its pleasant enough, has the guts to drive inefficient headphones but it cannot overcome the PC environment it lives in, your going to have to invest in a high quality PS like HDPlex and other tweaks if you want the promised performance out of it.  AQ Dragonfly is detailed, better isolated but lacks "guts" in its playback of acoustical music. If you want a credible audiophile quality DAC, you should start with something like the Chord Mojo or spend more on a Schiit Gumby. Othewise, well guess we can look forward to seeing your choice on the used market in 6 months.

 

“If your not at least at my level, your not really in the game and here is why”

 

5 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Those old ABX tests are highly suspect. The claims made are ludicrous to anyone who has experience actually listening to these systems. For example I just came back from AXPONA where I heard a Mark Levinson No. 585 (much less than 20k) and it was massively better than my NAD, which itself is not bad. My NAD was $250 used, and it clearly inferior to my current reference a pair of Linnenberg Allegro monoblocks for $5400. In fact the ML was so good I’m considering picking up a used unit for around 6-7k. But at this price range other options open up, like a FM Acoustics clone from China around 5k. I’m not saying you have to spend as much as I do, but you have to adjust budget upwards to get something at least serious.

 

The idea that a discman sounds no better than a high end DAC is so absurd even the non-audiophiles here can easily debunk it from thier own meager experiences.

 

 

Lol. 

 

Thanks to all quoted for promoting the hobby and encouraging threads like this. when asked why this hobby is dying, be sure to answer as quickly as you did today. 

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I can't compare the Red to the Asus, but I have the DF red and really believe it to be worth its asking price, at least for certain headphones and most all IEMs.  I think the real benefit is the form factor and power/punch it has to drive even higher impedance headphones.  But I really don't know how it would do as a line-out source.....

 

I find the DF red to sound quite a bit better (resolution of mids/treble, tightness and control in bass) than my recently sold Fiio X5 3rd gen, a DAP that retails for $350-399.  Compared to my new Fiio X7 mark ii, it is just a tad behind it.  

 

Put it this way.... I really don't have a use for the DF red, but I just can't seem to justify parting with it.  It has become much like my beloved HD600s.  They don't get any head time these days, but it's a class leading staple given the P2P ratio.  

 

Will you be using this to drive headphones, or drive an amp/pre amp?  

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12 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Those old ABX tests are highly suspect. The claims made are ludicrous to anyone who has experience actually listening to these systems.

 

The idea that a discman sounds no better than a high end DAC is so absurd even the non-audiophiles here can easily debunk it from thier own meager experiences.

 

 

 

 

Well, I don't have any reason to doubt about their findings. After all, it's science: anyone can try to replicate the experiments and show the results.

Any other kind of experiment which doesn't rely on ABX texting is prone to subjective and psychological bias, IMO.

 

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9 hours ago, dean70 said:

 

This The STXII has something similar. I used LT1213CN8 for I/V and LME49860NA for buffer, better detail than the standard op-amps without the digital glare (and good CMRR/PSRR which is important for a PC card). The more recent cards may work better with other combos.

 

Thanks dean70. I think I'll go for the standard version of the card, for I don't need 7.1. And, regarding the op/amps, I think I prefer not to tweak too much with its sound signature by default.

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11 hours ago, lesanderson said:

Lol at this thread. All the typical characteristics of audiophile horseshit are all here;

 

 

Someone bought a new Asus sound card recently. 

 

 

Phenominal kit,  but only for those that have been enlightened!

 

 

Obligatory system insult by someone who has just upgraded from this class of equipment most likely. 

 

 

“If your not at least at my level, your not really in the game and here is why”

 

Lol. 

 

Thanks to all quoted for promoting the hobby and encouraging threads like this. when asked why this hobby is dying, be sure to answer as quickly as you did today. 

 

thanks for showing your a**.  And your complete inexperience.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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On 4/20/2018 at 4:01 AM, Ron Scubadiver said:

The Essence 3 sells for over $2,000 in the US.  It might be great, but saying it blows away slightly more expensive gear isn't saying much.

it's listed at Amazon UK for 413 GBP, which is about $600

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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