The Linear Solution OXCO router

[BigAlMc]

Hi All, 

 

Just wondering if any of the CA community have tried the below and have any feedback? 

 

http://thelinearsolution.com/ocxo_router.html

 

The reports on their OXCO network switch seem to be glowing. So the obvious questions are how the router stacks up? And how it compares on its own versus with an OXCO or Audiophile switch? 

 

I asked similar over on the Novel Way thread:

 

 

 

But just wondering if any people have experiences to share?

 

A Google search of "The Linear Solution OXCO router" generated 9 results and two of those are from this forum!

 

I struggle to believe that hardly anyone has given one of these a spin. 

 

Many Thanks, 

Alan 

[exdmd]

$999 for a router?

[Ralf11]

it may do some reclocking or clock "controlling"

 

an OXCO adds $55 in parts; xx in engineering; and XXX in retail...

[mozes]

27 minutes ago, exdmd said:

$999 for a router?

It includes a separate PSU.

[exdmd]

No mention of regular firmware updates for security; I'll stick to my Pepwave Surf SOHO router.

[Ben2300]

5 hours ago, mozes said:

It includes a separate PSU.

If it is a linear power supply That’s $500 on the table.

[TheAttorney]

I'm also interested in this router - primarily because my broadband modem/router is positioned too far away from my hifi stack for me to connect an ethernet cable in any WAF-accepting manner. So I'm looking for a wifi extender/access point that can effectively bridge my broadband modem via wifi to my hifi stack via ethernet. And romaz' rave review of the LS OCXO switch on head-fi (where I normally reside) had me intrigued.

 

As this is my first post on CA , I thought I'd better contribute by adding what I've found so far on this router:

 

1. The LS website's spec of the Linear Power supply states only US voltage, but Adrian from LS has replied that he can configure it for other voltages, so ok for UK and Europe etc.

2. I was hoping to use one of the rails of my recently delivered Paul Hynes SR7 (finally!), but Adrian is unwilling to sell without its dedicated LPS, saying that this LPS has been carefully designed to perfectly match his switches and routers.

3. As of a few days ago, there's an introductory price of $849 for the OCXO router, compared to $659 for the OCXO switch (both including the LPS).

4. Adrian's view is that the OCXO router would be a better solution than an OCXO switch + non-audiophile accesspoint/extender.

5. Because I need to be absolutely sure that this router can work for me as an access point, I went in search of a user manual. I put on my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker and eventually deduced that the underlying model is most likely a D-Link DIR-867 (or 869). The former definitely works as accesspoint and wifi extender. The latter appears to be an older model for which the user guide is ambiguous on those functions.

 

If I was in the US, I'd be ordering one of these by now. I don't know of any other company that sells a standalone OCXO router. From the UK, I'm a bit more hesitent until I see more feedback.

[ChrisG]

It definitely looks like the DIR-879 https://www.techradar.com/reviews/d-link-dir-879-exo 

 

[Ralf11]

it may be based on an existing model and then hotrodded - that could easily account for the price - see the LPS post above

 

no claims as to whether it is worth the price...

[Ben2300]

4 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm also interested in this router - primarily because my broadband modem/router is positioned too far away from my hifi stack for me to connect an ethernet cable in any WAF-accepting manner. So I'm looking for a wifi extender/access point that can effectively bridge my broadband modem via wifi to my hifi stack via ethernet. And romaz' rave review of the LS OCXO switch on head-fi (where I normally reside) had me intrigued.

 

As this is my first post on CA , I thought I'd better contribute by adding what I've found so far on this router:

 

1. The LS website's spec of the Linear Power supply states only US voltage, but Adrian from LS has replied that he can configure it for other voltages, so ok for UK and Europe etc.

2. I was hoping to use one of the rails of my recently delivered Paul Hynes SR7 (finally!), but Adrian is unwilling to sell without its dedicated LPS, saying that this LPS has been carefully designed to perfectly match his switches and routers.

3. As of a few days ago, there's an introductory price of $849 for the OCXO router, compared to $659 for the OCXO switch (both including the LPS).

4. Adrian's view is that the OCXO router would be a better solution than an OCXO switch + non-audiophile accesspoint/extender.

5. Because I need to be absolutely sure that this router can work for me as an access point, I went in search of a user manual. I put on my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker and eventually deduced that the underlying model is most likely a D-Link DIR-867 (or 869). The former definitely works as accesspoint and wifi extender. The latter appears to be an older model for which the user guide is ambiguous on those functions.

 

If I was in the US, I'd be ordering one of these by now. I don't know of any other company that sells a standalone OCXO router. From the UK, I'm a bit more hesitent until I see more feedback.

Can you get by with the switch? Or you absolutely need a router?

[rickca]

9 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

4. Adrian's view is that the OCXO router would be a better solution than an OCXO switch + non-audiophile accesspoint/extender.

What is Adrian's rationale for that recommendation?

[BigAlMc]

16 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm also interested in this router - primarily because my broadband modem/router is positioned too far away from my hifi stack for me to connect an ethernet cable in any WAF-accepting manner. So I'm looking for a wifi extender/access point that can effectively bridge my broadband modem via wifi to my hifi stack via ethernet. And romaz' rave review of the LS OCXO switch on head-fi (where I normally reside) had me intrigued.

 

As this is my first post on CA , I thought I'd better contribute by adding what I've found so far on this router:

 

1. The LS website's spec of the Linear Power supply states only US voltage, but Adrian from LS has replied that he can configure it for other voltages, so ok for UK and Europe etc.

2. I was hoping to use one of the rails of my recently delivered Paul Hynes SR7 (finally!), but Adrian is unwilling to sell without its dedicated LPS, saying that this LPS has been carefully designed to perfectly match his switches and routers.

3. As of a few days ago, there's an introductory price of $849 for the OCXO router, compared to $659 for the OCXO switch (both including the LPS).

4. Adrian's view is that the OCXO router would be a better solution than an OCXO switch + non-audiophile accesspoint/extender.

5. Because I need to be absolutely sure that this router can work for me as an access point, I went in search of a user manual. I put on my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker and eventually deduced that the underlying model is most likely a D-Link DIR-867 (or 869). The former definitely works as accesspoint and wifi extender. The latter appears to be an older model for which the user guide is ambiguous on those functions.

 

If I was in the US, I'd be ordering one of these by now. I don't know of any other company that sells a standalone OCXO router. From the UK, I'm a bit more hesitent until I see more feedback.

 

Hi @TheAttorney, thanks for the detailed response and info. Also welcome to CA.

 

As a long time lurker over at Head-fi, I've read quite a few of your posts. So it's nice to 'meet' you! 

 

Funnily enough Malcyg ( @MNG on here) from some of the same Head-fi threads popped on a thread about the sCLK-OCX10 here the other day so it kinda feels like a few long running epic threads coming together! 

 

Nice work with the deerstalker. Your usecase is somewhat different to mine but I'm also intrigued by this:

 

"4. Adrian's view is that the OCXO router would be a better solution than an OCXO switch + non-audiophile accesspoint/extender." 

 

I'd like to get Adrians view on this. But am wondering if the implication is that the non audiophile extender does some damage that the switch cannot undo. I think I've saw Adrian post here before so with any luck he will clarify. 

 

But meantime that brings me back to my usecase and my motivation for starting this thread. 

 

I have the Aqvox SE switch and it's done wonders for the SQ of streaming Tidal. But upstream of it is a (crap!) Sky router and I cannot help wondering if its limiting what the switch can do. 

 

I'm pondering two schools of thought and have no idea which one is more likely:

 

A. The Aqvox or (an OXCO) switch reclocks the ethernet/Internet signal, tidies it up nicely and is pretty immune to upstream clocking/noise issues. 

 

B. An OXCO router would reclock the Internet signal and generate a lower noise ethernet signal that further benefits the signal the audiophile switch gets and therefore allows it to perform even better. 

 

My more cautious side would bet on rapidly diminishing returns, IF there is any improvement by investing in both. 

 

But then a lot of people scoff at the science of how an audiophile switch could make a difference to SQ because packets are packets, bits are bits, yada yada! 

 

Adrian - if you are reading, your thoughts would be very welcome. 

 

I'm tempted to try but at $849 have to be able to understand better whether there is any real benefit. Is it a case of recommending switch or router versus switch and router? 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[seeteeyou]

If we're actually killing multiple birds with one stone, maybe we could actually turn Supermicro X10SBA into a router like this?

 

http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/how10169/configuring-windows-server-2012-r2-as-a-router

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/windows-server-as-router.10304/

https://www.experiencingit.net/en/windows/windows-server-2016-nat-router/

 

In other words, we could still get an Ethernet card with OCXO while running Roon Server on that machine.

 

As usual the only concern with Windows Server as router should be more about the security. Not that other router OSes aren't vulnerable but we should be able to understand what the deal is.

[TheAttorney]

 

15 hours ago, ChrisG said:

It definitely looks like the DIR-879 https://www.techradar.com/reviews/d-link-dir-879-exo
 

I had a dyslexic moment in my earlier post, but I can't find a way to correct it now. I meant to type DIR-869 and 879. Both are outwardly identical and both user guides are dated early 2016, and neither appear to be current models, although still sold from some resellers. But the 869 user guide clearly describes the accesspoint and extender mode (e.g. screenshot below), whereas the 879 guide merely alludes to it.

 

13 hours ago, Ben2300 said:

Can you get by with the switch? Or you absolutely need a router?

 

A switch won't do what I need, as in the setup as below (I don't know why the upload quality is so poor, the original screenshot is fine).  

Another way of connecting my broadband modem on the right long distance to my hifi stack on the left would be to use powerline adapters, and I immediately discounted those on sound quality grounds.

 

EDIT: Sorry about the extra links below. I can't seem to delete them. Still in a learning curve with this site's editing function.

 

Adrian didn't expand upon his point about OCXO router being better than OCXO switch + non-audiophile extender, but it made sense to me: If the super clock and p/s and other benefits apply equally to the router and wifi parts as they do for the swtich parts, then that has to be better than having just a quality switch that is compromised by the noise etc of poorer quality extender. That's jus an assumption - I don't know for sure thet the super clock does apply to all the router functions.

 

[Blackmorec]

57 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

 

I had a dyslexic moment in my earlier post, but I can't find a way to correct it now. I meant to type DIR-869 and 879. Both are outwardly identical and both user guides are dated early 2016, and neither appear to be current models, although still sold from some resellers. But the 869 user guide clearly describes the accesspoint and extender mode (e.g. screenshot below), whereas the 879 guide merely alludes to it.

 

 

A switch won't do what I need, as in the setup as below (I don't know why the upload quality is so poor, the original screenshot is fine).  

Another way of connecting my broadband modem on the right long distance to my hifi stack on the left would be to use powerline adapters, and I immediately discounted those on sound quality grounds.

 

EDIT: Sorry about the extra links below. I can't seem to delete them. Still in a learning curve with this site's editing function.

 

Adrian didn't expand upon his point about OCXO router being better than OCXO switch + non-audiophile extender, but it made sense to me: If the super clock and p/s and other benefits apply equally to the router and wifi parts as they do for the swtich parts, then that has to be better than having just a quality switch that is compromised by the noise etc of poorer quality extender. That's jus an assumption - I don't know for sure thet the super clock does apply to all the router functions.

 

Quote

 

 

Just click the diagram and it’ll open a new window with good clarity.

 

I face a similar problem. The internet comes into the house at the corner of my lounge and my HI-fi is on the other side of the house across a staircase. 

I tried a Wi-fi solution in the form of Google Orbi but wasn’t really happy with the results. A senior Virgin engineer suggested a Powerline Wi-fi adapter, which I was very sceptical about. He left one to try. I used it to bridge across the staircase. I then take an Ethernet cable from the Powerline adapter to an AQVox Switch SE which ‘denoises’ and reclocks the stream before passing to my server. 

I was amazed at the quality....frankly I can barely tell the difference between the Powerline adapter and a long Ethernet cable plugged directly into the back of the Virgin modem/router.  Seems that unless your wi-if is solid and running at high speed, a Powerline may well be a better solution. 

 

Long term I’ll probably run a Cat 7 outdoor cable to my hi-fi room but for now the Powerline is giving sensational results (considering what it is and how it operates 

[Ben2300]

@TheAttorney base on your situation the only options are power line and wireless bridge without drilling or outside wire. So I do believe LS suggest the router over switch is correct and that’s only case by case not over all in general.

and it also depends on the distance in your home. I believe Power line + switch might be the best solution for you.

[TheAttorney]

It's good to know that the powerline option can give as good SQ as a direct ethernet cable (both into a high quality switch). So I'll keep this as an option, although my natural paranoa will probably continue to fret over what noise it is adding to my mains power.

 

But as a dedicated audiophile, I'd still like to know if this high quality LS router can give even better SQ than an ethernet cable .

Along the lines of the SOtM trifecta modded switch being better than no switch at all in the signal path, according to some.

Romaz has directly told me that he would expect the LS switch to improve upon my direct ethernet cable connection (between laptop and microRendu). So still wondering if the LS router can do the same whilst providing the extra routing/wifi functions as well. Still deliberating....

[Ultrarunner]

I’d give this router a try if I could buy it without the power supply. I’ve got plenty already, including two JS-2’s.

 

I wonder how much of the improvement people are hearing is just due to replacing the stock switching supply to a linear power supply? I’m still using the previous generation AirPort Extreme with a lps. When I tried the latest AirPort Extreme, with the built in smps, it ruined the sound, presumably because of the noise added back to the AC line. That’s without being connected to the audio system. 

[panda123456]

Anybody has tried OCXO router? Is it make sense to have a OCXO clock in router for streaming data?

 

[auricgoldfinger]

5 hours ago, panda123456 said:

Anybody has tried OCXO router? Is it make sense to have a OCXO clock in router for streaming data?

 

 

 

[panda123456]

Thank @auricgoldfinger for giving me the useful links. However, it seems they did not tell the reason why SQ could be stepped up after adding an oxco switch/ router. Indeed, I have the same questions that @BigAlMc are asking. To my very limited knowledge, normal network switch receives and sends data frame without time stamp. So, I think even if the internal clock is improved, it seems there is no way to propagate the corrected time signal to down stream devices. Of course, I also read other posts that report positive feedback after using oxco device  plus LPS. I want to try the oxco switch or router, but before that I want to know the basic behind the scenes. Thx

[Blackmorec]

Some more feedback. 

 

Like BigAlMc, I treat my incoming internet like an unwanted stepchild, until it arrives in my hi-if room, after which its treated like royalty. A Virgin SuperHub3 with freeby SMPS links via a Maplin’s cheap and cheerful 1.5M cat 5 Ethnet cable to a Netgear 1000 Powerline extender, the receiver end of which is hooked up via 10M of Synergistic Research Active Ethernet cable to a AQVoxSE. 

 

I reported earlier that the Power line 1000 gave excellent results. Still true. Considering what I’m putting the signal through (cheap twin and earth with multiple twisted junctions and all the 240V mains-borne crap), the AQVox and Zenith SE perform miracles to produce incredibly involving, highly detailed music. 

 

I am certainly interested in improving the upstream handling of the data stream, so the Linear Solutions OXCO Router could be very interesting. With LS’s dual rail LPS I could also replace the crappy Virgin SMPS on the Superhub3, while simultaneously powering the LS router. 

 

Like TheAttorney, I couldn’t help feeling guilty about the Powerline and all the crap it was both putting up with AND putting into the household mains ring it was on. To this end I replaced it following Cornan’s recommendation of 2 TPLink RE650 Wi-fi extenders....the first, linked to the Virgin router via the  2.4MHz band to provide all my wi-fi devices with better connectivity and the second, in my hi-fi room, linked to the router via the 5MHz band and to the AQVox with an Ethernet cable, with all wi-fi transmissions disabled,  providing a clean, fast, uninterupted data stream to the hi-fi.  The result was, as expected, a step up in sound quality. Voices became more ‘human’, more focussed and more tangible in space, with greater layering of the soundstage and an increase in low level detail.  To ensure the results were only due to the Powerline to Wi-fi extender changes I maintained the 10m Ethernet cable link, even though i now require only a 1.5m Ethernet cable.  So I believe I can now say that while the Powerline solution worked perfectly well, Cornan’s RE650-based 2 wi-fi extender approach is clearly superior. 

My next step is an LPS for the AQVox (I’ve picked a Sean Jacobs designed DC2 + cables for that job) and then look at the router....either replacing the SMPS with something like a DC2 or replacing the  entire router section with an LS OXCO and replacing the virgin SuperHub3 (modem) PS as mentioned above. 

Comments and feedback as always very welcome

[KingRex]

I have taken possssion of my new Linear Solution Ethernet switch. Really just a wonderfull improvement to my system utilizing my NAS or Tidal with it. I am really surprised how much of an improvement it brought to playback via my NAS.

For instance Cat Stevens, Where Do The Children Play. The intro has this powerful plucked bass line. Via my internal storage the play is strong and clear. Good separation of instruments. Great to listen too. From my NAS through the Linear Solution Switch the bass line takes on a wonderful resonant feel. The twang and natural energy of the string moving in air is alive. Full of natural excitement and life. It is a nice step towards real purity.

Bob Marley Ledgend, No Woman No Cry. I never heard the crowd so part of the recording. They were always there, by now it's a palpable part of the performance. You can really feel the play back and forth with the crowd.

I am also sensitive to an electric guitar. I have played nice American made Gibson and Fender through, Mesa, Marshal and Fender tube amps. 2x12, 4x12, cabinets. I know the grit and bite that pushes through your body. This is the closest to in the flesh playback I have gotten out of any medium. It has once again pushed further than my vinyl. My current vinyl is no slouch either. I really stepped it up with the new table and Sound Smith Sappire retip of my Denon. Best I have had. The vinyl compared to digital still can't fill the gap on the basics such as air, ease of play and sound stage. With the switch in place the gap has now further expanded. Through the new switch the bass has extended deeper and responds faster. The biggest surprise is the way instruments have more of a natural sound. it's hard to put into words, it's just more visceral. The crack of a snare has that immediacy in lift. Vocals are more legible. Violins have even more of the wood resonance. Natural. 

let me give you a little system test. Play Jimmy Buffet A Man Went To Paris. On the second set of Lyrics Jimmy carries out a sustain on his vocals. You should be able to clearly hear him carry out the line "Saving The World On His Own". Listen to the word "Own". It goes on for a couple seconds. Its very quiet with a clear warble in the tone. This is one of those attributes that jumped out at me. I never really noticed it before but its plain as day now. Well done Jimmy.

I gather some members on Computer Audiophile who do extensive testing and posting of equipment have also purchased the switch. I gather some of them are selling their $3,000 reference clocks as this switch is doing more for the playback. I have to read up on this, but its what I heard. Who knows.

Adrian is also getting ready to launch his server. He has accepted orders for the first couple. There is going to be a limited run of the signature edition. After that he said he is going to focus more on the production model, so if you want something that may be more akin to the best of the best give them a call. If his simple switch can do as much for my system as it did for mine, I would bet the rest of his product line is top notch. 

Happy Listening.

[KingRex]

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/digital-playback/digital-add-ons-and-software/83099-audiophile-ethernet-switch

 

This is the link to all I wrote.  Very happy with this purchase. 

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, KingRex said:

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/digital-playback/digital-add-ons-and-software/83099-audiophile-ethernet-switch

 

This is the link to all I wrote.  Very happy with this purchase. 

 

I'd be interested in comparing one of these to a Cisco 2960 that I use. Where in Seattle are you? We're in the 23rd and Madison area. I suppose I could contact TLS and see if they'd do a demo, though I can't see myself paying for one. The Cisco did a lot of what you described and it was only $29! (new they're over $500).