Schiit embarrassed at AXPONA

[beerandmusic]

On 4/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, GUTB said:

Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So what happened?

 

Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of.

 

The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics.

 

Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area.

 

 

 

state speakers, amp, and tracks and compare the two...that will give you your answer....cables had nothing to do with it....swap the cables and you would still much prefer the esoteric system.

[TubeLover]

7 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

 

You didn't mention money. I bet Schiit destroyed Esoteric in the value proposition. I accept the cable comment though; only a fool would argue cables don't make a difference.

+1

 

JC

[firedog]

14 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

Neurotypical would imply he is normal or well adjusted. Its not an excuse.

He seems to use it as meaning he has an issue. 

[mav52]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

He seems to use it as meaning he has an issue. 

Maybe a bigger issue than he knows or cares to admit

[marce]

14 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

 

You didn't mention money. I bet Schiit destroyed Esoteric in the value proposition. I accept the cable comment though; only a fool would argue cables don't make a difference.

Cables do make measurable differences, very very small, to be audible the gear would have to be crap... or the cable manufactured to create a difference, niether is HI-FI.

Off course we don't understand anything about putting signals down wires....

 

[firedog]

35 minutes ago, marce said:

Cables do make measurable differences, very very small, to be audible the gear would have to be crap... or the cable manufactured to create a difference, niether is HI-FI.

Off course we don't understand anything about putting signals down wires....

 

 Blue Jeans cables are built from quality cable and parts. Each one is cut to order. And each one is measured to meet or exceed spec for it's type before shipment. 

Unlike some audiophile cables, which are so special they fail to meet spec.

[rando]

33 minutes ago, firedog said:

 Blue Jeans cables are built from quality cable and parts. Each one is cut to order. And each one is measured to meet or exceed spec for it's type before shipment. 

Unlike some audiophile cables, which are so special they fail to meet spec.

 

Like this one?   

 

[marce]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

 Blue Jeans cables are built from quality cable and parts. Each one is cut to order. And each one is measured to meet or exceed spec for it's type before shipment. 

Unlike some audiophile cables, which are so special they fail to meet spec.

Yes I have used blue jeans cables, I refuse to use esoteric overpriced cables surrounded by BS marketing (Audioquest, Synergistic research come to mind).

[marce]

1 hour ago, rando said:

 

Like this one?   

 

The specs are there for a reason....

[mfsoa]

I used to love BlueJeans cables on my FM tuner. They noticeably reduced high frequency content to the extent that the FM noise was reduced significantly. A great cable for this application.

[marce]

How was the cable cutting the FM noise? Where was the cable? Puzzled.

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, marce said:

How was the cable cutting the FM noise? Where was the cable? Puzzled.

One end in each ear.

[marce]

[rando]

26 minutes ago, marce said:

The specs are there for a reason....

 

Yes they are.  So after work, and a good dinner, this particular good natured Dutchman took the completely reasonable step of trying to outwit them.  Much as any good fisherman attempts to do with a large fish or a crossword enthusiast their latest construction. Then they move on to the next challenge that might bring equal amounts of satisfaction.  Hardly ending widespread disease in a time of need.  Still it is something not everyone will accomplish or even attempt.

 

I'm sure BJC make products that remove much of the inferiority that could exist from all quarters.  For the vast majority of people this is a very good solution that works and will be replaced if it fails.  Amazing we as a worldwide society have gotten to that point.  Those grotesque snakelike cables (potentially), computers that were the size of small warehouses, and every other (more than likely dying on the vine) work in progress make development to that point possible.  Don't preclude a few inward looking dreamers from stumbling into buying them during this lifetime as luxury goods.  Snake oil salesman are not in the same business as someone who continues to sell their outrageously expensive products that don't work to make ones that do.  

[Nordkapp]

Canare or Mogami. Done.

[GUTB]

I own the same Blue Jeans speaker cables. They look and feel nice with thier heavy locking banana plugs. They aren’t exactly budget at $70. Sonically they are massively inferior my Audio Sensibility cables which themselves aren’t anything super special...just OCC, Teflon dielectric, damping, and thick casing.

 

Blue Jeans are a waste of money. Pro cables aren’t audiophile-grade. I’m sure they’re better than the mass consumer junk from Amazon, but the audiophile can do much better for only a little expensive. Those Audio Sensibility cables cost around $300 as I recall.

[Speedskater]

4 hours ago, mfsoa said:

I used to love BlueJeans cables on my FM tuner. They noticeably reduced high frequency content to the extent that the FM noise was reduced significantly. A great cable for this application.

More likely because it's well shielded (screened) it reduced RFI interference.

For a cable that can pass a 100MHz signal, it would be a neat trick to reduce high frequency audio (with reasonable cable, length and input & output stages).

[Speedskater]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

Blue Jeans are a waste of money. Pro cables aren’t audiophile-grade.

Of course they (BJC or pro) cables are not audiophile-grade. They cost reasonable amounts and are often better made cables.  It takes big expensive machines and a skilled QA department to make good cables.  Note that some audiophile-grade cables are custom made by those good big bulk cable manufactures.

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, Speedskater said:

Of course they (BJC or pro) cables are not audiophile-grade. They cost reasonable amounts and are often better made cables.  It takes big expensive machines and a skilled QA department to make good cables.  Note that some audiophile-grade cables are custom made by those good big bulk cable manufactures.

 

Which Blue Jeans (or pro) cables have you tried against which audiophile cables? 

[gmgraves]

On 4/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, GUTB said:

I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling,

None of it. Even if cabling did account for some difference in sound quality between the two rooms, it wouldn't be that great. Even among those who who believe that cabling makes a difference, they know that the difference would be quite subtle, not in your face like you are painting it. If cables made that much difference, they wouldn't be controversial. Hell two different amplifiers wouldn't make the kind of difference in SQ that you're talking about! But different speakers would. I know nothing of either speaker brand, so I can't address those differences. 

[mansr]

13 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Hell two different amplifiers wouldn't make the kind of difference in SQ that you're talking about! But different speakers would.

And different music.

[gmgraves]

On 4/15/2018 at 5:41 AM, firedog said:

Schiit is value equipment. "Audiophile" level - better than consumer level - but not really the absolute best. Better than some stuff than costs considerably more than it does.

Other than the Yggy, they don't really claim their stuff is as good as "anything out there". And at least with the Yggy there are plenty of users and professional reviewers who've favorably compared the Yggy to DACs costing $10-$20K. The Gungnir Multibit costs around $1250 and isn't even their best DAC. As it says on it's product page:

The result is exceptional performance for the price—frequently lauded by the press as the best in its price class.

As noted, the Esoteric stuff probably cost many times what the Schiit stuff does. 

I have an Asgard II headphone amplifier for my HE-1000 v.2 headphones, and it is the best sounding headphone amp I've yet heard. So, some of their stuff is really good. I suspect that most people would find that a system built around a Schiit Gungnir Multi-bit DAC, (or even better, a 2nd Gen Yggy) a Freya preamp and a pair of Vidars used as mono-blocks would be a system worthy of some of the better speakers: Magneplanar MG 30.7s, Martin Logan Renaissance, Sound Labs Majestic 945PX, Wilson Audio Sabrina, etc. Their electronics, as far as my experience goes, are exceptionally well designed. but the final arbiters for the SQ of any system are the speakers and the room's acoustics. Even the Esoteric stuff would not impress if paired with speakers that were not up to them. 

[gmgraves]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:50 PM, George Hincapie said:

 

You didn't mention money. I bet Schiit destroyed Esoteric in the value proposition. I accept the cable comment though; only a fool would argue cables don't make a difference.

I'm one of those "fools" then. I've been involved in too many interconnect DBTs that show no sonic difference between  the most expensive interconnects and the cheapest throw-away cables to buy into that. But that's neither here nor there. For the sake of this discussion, let's say that cables make the subtle magnitude of difference that proponents of the proposition claim they make. Even so, there is no way cables could be in any way contributory to the vast difference in SQ that GUTB noted between the Schiit setup and the Esoteric setup!

[mansr]

17 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Even so, there is no way cables could be in any way contributory to the vast difference in SQ that GUTB noted between the Schiit setup and the Esoteric setup!

Of course not. Only the price tag can do that.

[gmgraves]

18 minutes ago, mansr said:

Of course not. Only the price tag can do that.

I'm not so sure even that is true. Take the Schiit system and the Esoteric system, have them both play the same piece of music through the same pair of speakers (with a switch to select which system is playing through the speakers at any given time) and I doubt that anyone would find enough difference between to two in a double blind comparison to consistently be able to pick out the more expensive of the two systems. Don't misunderstand me here, I'm not trying to say that the two disparate systems would sound alike, not a bit of it, but I'm saying that one probably won't sound enough better than the other as to be a clear indicator of price. Remember. In high-end audio price doesn't always indicate sound quality.