Brinkman Ship Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Ralf11 said: We should thank him for reporting on his experiences however Yes, let us all bow down.... Link to comment
beancounter Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Nordkapp said: Yeah right, it doesn't cost $3K per meter! Canton/Esoterica with lamp cord would crush Schiit. Schiit is fine, but it’s simply not in the same category. Uselessly provocative thread. Edit - yes, I heard both rooms. Canton/Esoterica actually wasn’t as good as last year. Link to comment
Dr Tone Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 http://www.audioshark.org/general-audio-discussion-15/esoteric-k-01x-versus-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-13581.html Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Priaptor said: Just my opinion but shows are a hit or miss for demonstrating one's wares. My buddy is showing the new Gobel Epoque Aeon Fine that were in my very large room for a month that while in my room was blowing away every single person who heard them. He sent me a picture of his tiny room at Axpona that he was able to get in haste for Axpona and I was sure his first introduction of these amazing speakers was going to be a dud. Apparently they are a huge hit. One thing I have learned is to never give a definitive judgement of a component or system from what I hear at a show. A little OT but I went to hear the Gobels speakers. They were nice but apparently the room brought them down because they weren’t sensational. You could hear the hole where they crossover at 160 Hz. They are 2 way with 1 driven and 2 passive ~6” drivers front and rear in the bottom and the bending wave panel on top. Maybe they just need a bigger room so you can be far enough away for the drivers to blend. Just my take at a show where the rooms were generally small but there was some outstanding sound for some systems. https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
jtwrace Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 15 hours ago, firedog said: Please explain why BlueJeans cable is no good. Exactly! I'm sure it's all Belden 1800F which is stellar cabling. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
botrytis Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 18 hours ago, GUTB said: Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As. So what happened? Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of. The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics. Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area. The Cantons are 25K a pair - they are their TOTL speakers. Also the equipment was around 50K. Compared to the Schiit Stack? You are comparing Apples and oranges. MikeyFresh 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
GUTB Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound. Link to comment
botrytis Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, GUTB said: But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound. Then you haven't heard the new version of the speakers. They are actually excellent sounding. Can I say your Class D nonsense is just that - NONSENSE. MBL used Class D amps in their room and that was an excellent sounding room. MikeyFresh 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
beancounter Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Dr Tone said: http://www.audioshark.org/general-audio-discussion-15/esoteric-k-01x-versus-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-13581.html No surprise. I have opined here and elsewhere that DAC/ line level has matured to the point where if well implemented, relatively inexpensive gear is competitive with much more expensive gear. Within the bounds of taste/ preference, and with rapidly diminished returns with higher price. Amplification and speakers, usually another story. Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted April 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 hours ago, GUTB said: But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound. You aren't told on this forum that price doesn't matter. You are told that your obsession with price is misplaced, as is your seemingly consistent position that more expensive=better as an axiom, and that anything that isn't mega expensive is consumer junk. Comparing a Schiit system that costs a small fraction of the Esoteric one and thinking that the comparison "embarrasses" Schiit is a perfect example. As is denigrating BlueJeans cables. The comparison doesn't embarrass Schiit or BJ Cables. It should embarrass you, but that's another story. mav52, tmtomh, AudioDoctor and 7 others 9 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted April 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 hours ago, botrytis said: Then you haven't heard the new version of the speakers. They are actually excellent sounding. Can I say your Class D nonsense is just that - NONSENSE. MBL used Class D amps in their room and that was an excellent sounding room. The Salks don't cost enough to impress him. I'll say it again: take a $50k Class A or Class A/B amp that GUTB likes. Hide it under a cloth at the show, but put a sign on it saying it is Class D. He will say it doesn't sound good. AudioDoctor and Ralf11 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
GUTB Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, firedog said: The Salks don't cost enough to impress him. I'll say it again: take a $50k Class A or Class A/B amp that GUTB likes. Hide it under a cloth at the show, but put a sign on it saying it is Class D. He will say it doesn't sound good. I’m pretty sure I won’t fall for that. Link to comment
STC Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 On 4/15/2018 at 12:13 PM, GUTB said: Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As. So what happened? Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of. The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics. Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area. Did you also post in Audiogon as madavid0? https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/schiit-not-that-good ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
GUTB Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Of course no one with high-end audio experience thinks Schiit competes in the high-end (except for DACs which many consider high end). The Internet is full of pro-Schiit shilling, promoting and boosting. You constantly hear the dumb line about how Schiit is "disruptive" to the high end industry; in reality Schiit customers aren’t going to buy high end gear anyway. When the hype and marketing is put to the test it failed in front of a real high end manufacturer. Link to comment
firedog Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, GUTB said: Of course no one with high-end audio experience thinks Schiit competes in the high-end (except for DACs which many consider high end). The Internet is full of pro-Schiit shilling, promoting and boosting. You constantly hear the dumb line about how Schiit is "disruptive" to the high end industry; in reality Schiit customers aren’t going to buy high end gear anyway. When the hype and marketing is put to the test it failed in front of a real high end manufacturer. Not exactly. There are Schiit products which definitely are audiophile or even high end. Their two better DACs, for instance. Some of their headphone amps. The stereo preamps are definitely worthy in an audiophile system. The Freya preamp I bought for secondary listening is as good or better than some $2000-$3000 preamps. I'm sure for you a $3000 pre isn't good enough, though, right? Some of their "accessories", such as the Eitr converter are also, supposedly, as good as much more expensive items of their type. One of the many ways Schiit lowers costs/price is by making attractive, but not "blingy" cosmetics. This alone probably accounts for much of the difference in price between their products and some of the very expensive competition. So If someone buys a Yggy DAC and a Freya preamp for about $3100, instead of spending $10K -$20K on a high end DAC and expensive pre, or $169 on an Eitr instead of a $500 or $1200 converter, I'd say that's pretty disruptive. And it does happen. People have sold more expensive items and replaced them with the Schiit equivalents after hearing them. And I'm not shilling for them. I haven't liked everything they've done. And the Vidar seems to be a bit underwhelming as an amp. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
mav52 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 13 hours ago, GUTB said: But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound. Maybe your condition is causing you to not hear or understand audio like you think. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
botrytis Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Schiit had a great show. The Yggy was used in quite a few rooms, like Silnote cables and that was a fantastic sound. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
ChrisG Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Over at AG, a poster said that the Schitt room wasn't even using Yggy, they were using Gumby (a $849 DAC FWIW). Regardless, assuming both companies took the same care with room acoustics, the biggest difference between the two systems (besides cost) is the speakers used. Set both systems up with the same speakers and see what you get. ronkuper 1 ChrisG Bend, OR Link to comment
semente Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 hours ago, GUTB said: Of course no one with high-end audio experience thinks Schiit competes in the high-end (except for DACs which many consider high end). The Internet is full of pro-Schiit shilling, promoting and boosting. You constantly hear the dumb line about how Schiit is "disruptive" to the high end industry; in reality Schiit customers aren’t going to buy high end gear anyway. When the hype and marketing is put to the test it failed in front of a real high end manufacturer. What (hands-on) experience have you had with highend audio equipment? "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted April 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2018 Interesting thread. Sound quality in a hotel room is determined by many factors. I’d rank the top four in order of importance as: 1. Room (a giant instrument) 2. Skill and willingness the people running the demo to tune the system. 3. Power (can be horrendous). 4. Loudspeakers Once these are addressed, then it’s possible to hear what a DAC has to offer etc... semente, sphinxsix, Nordkapp and 2 others 4 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
GUTB Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, mav52 said: Maybe your condition is causing you to not hear or understand audio like you think. I’m 100% neurotypical. Link to comment
Popular Post ted_b Posted April 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2018 On 4/15/2018 at 8:26 AM, Priaptor said: Just my opinion but shows are a hit or miss for demonstrating one's wares. My buddy is showing the new Gobel Epoque Aeon Fine that were in my very large room for a month that while in my room was blowing away every single person who heard them. He sent me a picture of his tiny room at Axpona that he was able to get in haste for Axpona and I was sure his first introduction of these amazing speakers was going to be a dud. Apparently they are a huge hit. One thing I have learned is to never give a definitive judgement of a component or system from what I hear at a show. +1 No one attending a show should put sq anywhere high on the list of expectations. These are temporary setups in hotel rooms! I would make sure you make a list of those manufacturers and dealers you want to meet and converse with, get to those rooms where you can see the build quality of products you are interested in, and have a good time listening to music in less-than-optimal settings. Oh, and use the show as a chance to set up demos at home, etc. The comraderie of fellow attendees is a nice byproduct too. The OP went to Axpona with unrealistic expectations unfortunately. To report on rooms sounding bad is a slippery slope to the obvious. Hugo9000 and mourip 2 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
beancounter Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: 3. Power (can be horrendous). One of the more amusing sights was a monster power conditioner, with wrist-thick Cracken like tentacles to the various components, but with the power cord narrowed to (maybe) pinky finger thickness at the end where it entered the plug assembly. Link to comment
semente Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, beancounter said: One of the more amusing sights was a monster power conditioner, with wrist-thick Cracken like tentacles to the various components, but with the power cord narrowed to (maybe) pinky finger thickness at the end where it entered the plug assembly. And yet... beancounter 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
look&listen Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, GUTB said: I’m 100% neurotypical. Repeat daily, maybe someday you actually believe. Summit 1 Link to comment
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