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Schiit embarrassed at AXPONA


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23 minutes ago, Nordkapp said:

Yeah right, it doesn't cost $3K per meter!

 

Canton/Esoterica with lamp cord would crush Schiit.

 

Schiit is fine, but it’s simply not in the same category. Uselessly provocative thread. 

 

Edit - yes, I heard both rooms. Canton/Esoterica actually wasn’t as good as last year.

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8 hours ago, Priaptor said:

Just my opinion but shows are a hit or miss for demonstrating one's wares. 

 

My buddy is showing the new Gobel Epoque Aeon Fine that were in my very large room for a month that while in my room was blowing away every single person who heard them.  He sent me a picture of his tiny room at Axpona that he was able to get in haste for Axpona and I was sure his first introduction of these amazing speakers was going to be a dud.  Apparently they are a huge hit.  One thing I have learned is to never give a definitive judgement of a component or system from what I hear at a show. 

 

A little OT but I went to hear the Gobels speakers.  They were nice but apparently the room brought them down because they weren’t sensational.  You could hear the hole where they crossover at 160 Hz.  They are 2 way with 1 driven and 2 passive ~6” drivers front and rear in the bottom and the bending wave panel on top.   Maybe they just need a bigger room so you can be far enough away for the drivers to blend.  Just my take at a show where the rooms were generally small but there was some outstanding sound for some systems.  

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18 hours ago, GUTB said:

Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So what happened?

 

Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of.

 

The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics.

 

Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area.

 

 

 

The Cantons are 25K a pair - they are their TOTL speakers. Also the equipment was around 50K. Compared to the Schiit Stack? You are comparing Apples and oranges.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. 

 

BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound.

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3 minutes ago, GUTB said:

But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. 

 

BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound.

 

Then you haven't heard the new version of the speakers. They are actually excellent sounding.

 

Can I say your Class D nonsense is just that - NONSENSE.  MBL used Class D amps in their room and that was an excellent sounding room.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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3 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

 

No surprise. I have opined here and elsewhere that DAC/ line level has matured to the point where if well implemented, relatively inexpensive gear is competitive with much more expensive gear.  Within the bounds of taste/ preference, and with rapidly diminished returns with higher price. 

 

Amplification and speakers, usually another story. 

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39 minutes ago, firedog said:

The Salks don't cost enough to impress him. 

I'll say it again: take a $50k Class A or Class A/B amp that GUTB likes. Hide it under a cloth at the show, but put a sign on it saying it is Class D. He will say it doesn't sound good. 

 

I’m pretty sure I won’t fall for that.

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On 4/15/2018 at 12:13 PM, GUTB said:

Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So what happened?

 

Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of.

 

The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics.

 

Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area.

 

 

 

 

Did you also post in Audiogon as madavid0?

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/schiit-not-that-good

 

 

 

 

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Of course no one with high-end audio experience thinks Schiit competes in the high-end (except for DACs which many consider high end). The Internet is full of pro-Schiit shilling, promoting and boosting. You constantly hear the dumb line about how Schiit is "disruptive" to the high end industry; in reality Schiit customers aren’t going to buy high end gear anyway. When the hype and marketing is put to the test it failed in front of a real high end manufacturer.

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1 hour ago, GUTB said:

Of course no one with high-end audio experience thinks Schiit competes in the high-end (except for DACs which many consider high end). The Internet is full of pro-Schiit shilling, promoting and boosting. You constantly hear the dumb line about how Schiit is "disruptive" to the high end industry; in reality Schiit customers aren’t going to buy high end gear anyway. When the hype and marketing is put to the test it failed in front of a real high end manufacturer.

Not exactly. There are Schiit products which definitely are audiophile or even high end. Their two better DACs, for instance. Some of their  headphone amps.

The stereo preamps are definitely worthy in an audiophile system. The Freya preamp I bought for secondary listening is as good or better than some $2000-$3000 preamps. I'm sure for you a $3000 pre isn't good enough, though, right?

 

Some of their "accessories",  such as the Eitr converter are also, supposedly, as good as much more expensive items of their type. 

 

One of the many ways Schiit lowers costs/price is by making attractive, but not "blingy" cosmetics. This alone probably accounts for much of the difference in price between their products and some of the very expensive competition. 

 

So If someone buys a Yggy DAC and a Freya preamp for about $3100, instead of spending $10K -$20K on a high end DAC and expensive pre, or $169 on an Eitr instead of a  $500 or $1200 converter, I'd say that's pretty disruptive. And it does happen. People have sold more expensive items and replaced them with the Schiit equivalents after hearing them. 

 

And I'm not shilling for them. I haven't liked everything they've done. And the Vidar seems to be a bit underwhelming as an amp. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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13 hours ago, GUTB said:

But I’m told on this forum that price doesn’t matter. It’s not like the Song 3As are junk...or are they? To be 100% honest I’ve never heard a Salk that I’d describe as being excellent or superior, but that could be for reasons of setup, room, equipment, etc. 

 

BTW I’ll also point out that class D across the board was inferior. I heard the latest W4S, the big Cherry monos, a PS Audio setup (stereo amp, didn’t get the model), and maybe 1 or 2 I’m forgetting about. Insipid, lacking in inner detail, reality, etc.Very forgettable sound.

 

Maybe your condition is causing you to not hear or understand audio like you think. 

The Truth Is Out There

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Schiit had a great show. The Yggy was used in quite a few rooms, like Silnote cables and that was a fantastic sound.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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Over at AG, a poster said that the Schitt room wasn't even using Yggy, they were using Gumby (a $849 DAC FWIW).

Regardless, assuming both companies took the same care with room acoustics, the biggest difference between the two systems (besides cost) is the speakers used. Set both systems up with the same speakers and see what you get.

ChrisG

Bend, OR

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5 hours ago, GUTB said:

Of course no one with high-end audio experience thinks Schiit competes in the high-end (except for DACs which many consider high end). The Internet is full of pro-Schiit shilling, promoting and boosting. You constantly hear the dumb line about how Schiit is "disruptive" to the high end industry; in reality Schiit customers aren’t going to buy high end gear anyway. When the hype and marketing is put to the test it failed in front of a real high end manufacturer.

 

What (hands-on) experience have you had with highend audio equipment?

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

3. Power (can be horrendous).

 

 

One of the more amusing sights was a monster power conditioner, with wrist-thick Cracken like tentacles to the various components, but with the power cord narrowed to (maybe) pinky finger thickness at the end where it entered the plug assembly.  

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15 minutes ago, beancounter said:

 

 

One of the more amusing sights was a monster power conditioner, with wrist-thick Cracken like tentacles to the various components, but with the power cord narrowed to (maybe) pinky finger thickness at the end where it entered the plug assembly.  

 

And yet... B|

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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