Game-changer at AXPONA

[Kal Rubinson]

18 minutes ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

I wonder, how fundamental to the process is the individual measurement?  Is it something like a hearing test to determine the listener's frequency response?  Could this trickle down to the sub $1,000 level?

It is important.  When I had the Smyth, I did calibrations for me and for my wife and, at times, switched them.  I felt that , when using her filters, the general effect was fine and, at times , impressive.  OTOH, comparing mine with hers, I always preferred mine as the imaging was more stable and A/Bs with the speaker playback were more convincing.

[Kal Rubinson]

15 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Sounds like a simple measurement of HRTF impulse response with a difference computed between HRTF with headphones on and off.

Yes but note that it is done on a per-speaker/channel basis.

 

15 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Curious if there’s any head tracking implemented, but doesn’t sound like the parts or the implementation should be all that expensive. Of course, that’s just a guess based on marketing materials.

The Smyth S8 included head tracking.

[pkane2001]

21 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Yes but note that it is done on a per-speaker/channel basis.

 

The Smyth S8 included head tracking.

Kal, are you talking about the JVC process or Smyth? I’ve been thinking along similar lines for 2-3 months now, and may even have an inexpensive way to implement head tracking. I was just curious if JVC was doing it. I know Smyth is.

 

Aside from head tracking, the rest of the equipment is fairly inexpensive for doing HRTF measurements and most of the implementation is in applying proper computation (mostly convolution) to the signal.

[GUTB]

A pair of mics are put on your ears mounted on this stethoscope-style device. The engineer (Japanese dude I'm told is the developer) fiddles with the mics to arrange them just right.

 

Clicks are played through the speakers.

 

$4k JVC headphones are put on over the mics and clicks played through them. Done.

 

My exclusive photo:

 

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

Kal, are you talking about the JVC process or Smyth?

As I have stated before, I have never heard (or heard of) the JVC process except on this thread.

[asdf1000]

11 hours ago, PeterG said:

It would be wonderful to pick up a speaker-like sound stage, but why would one sacrifice detail, dynamics, etc?  Are they really going to be better overall than a pair of Audeze or Grado headphones that might be $1K or so (or $2K or so...)?

 

Good points and the same points may apply to the D-to-A quality offered, versus better DAC/headphone amps out there.

 

Soundstage/imaging/depth may be better as you say but what about transparency and dynamics.

 

As an example, my Chord DAC/amp features Bauer Crossfeed DSP and I find that while I get a more 'frontal' sound, I also lose transparency and dynamics and there's a slight bass boost. So like everything, there are tradeoffs. With my Chord DAC I actually prefer crossfeed off for the better transparency.

 

I'm sure all this DSP stuff will improve at a rate of knots though.

 

[Summit]

JVC headphones? Lol

[Ron Scubadiver]

I'm still a bit mystified as to what is measured and how is a speaker imaging experience created.  What I thought is imaging is in part created by head movement changing the alignment of the ears with the loudspeakers.  Is there some kind of device on these headphones which measures head movement?

[Kal Rubinson]

46 minutes ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

I'm still a bit mystified as to what is measured and how is a speaker imaging experience created.  What I thought is imaging is in part created by head movement changing the alignment of the ears with the loudspeakers.  Is there some kind of device on these headphones which measures head movement?

I imagine that the JVC process is similar although the algorithms are probably different.  All the info about the Smyth is available on-line.  Here are two links:
http://www.smyth-research.com/technology.html

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-45

[adamdea]

12 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I imagine that the JVC process is similar although the algorithms are probably different.  All the info about the Smyth is available on-line.  Here are two links:
http://www.smyth-research.com/technology.html

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-45

Have smyth actually produced the long-awaited a16? I would be very tempted if they have actually got it out. 

[Ron Scubadiver]

Smyth does monitor head position.

[GUTB]

The rep mentioned they are working on head-tracking for military and VR applications which may appear in the audiophile product.

 

During the measurement I was told not to move.

 

The concept of getting the accoustics of a professional recording studio while sitting at my desk is very compelling. 

[Kal Rubinson]

3 hours ago, adamdea said:

Have smyth actually produced the long-awaited a16? I would be very tempted if they have actually got it out. 

I do not know.  They no longer answer my e-mails and they failed to show up at CanJam NYC this year.

A friend of mine made a deposit back in November 2017 and has not yet received product.

[gmgraves]

On 4/13/2018 at 4:21 PM, fas42 said:

And if you hate headphones - you're stuffed! ...

At best, headphones are a necessary evil. I always prefer listening to speakers even though modern high-end headphones are generally more accurate than most speakers, I still only use them when they are required by the situation. 

[Fyper]

I don't get it.

What's the point of reproducing the flaws of your speakers/room combo in a headphone?

Why add things which should never have been there in the first place to the original sound?

One of the headphones main advantage is precisely to get rid of the room acoustics problems. 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Fyper said:

I don't get it.

What's the point of reproducing the flaws of your speakers/room combo in a headphone?

Why add things which should never have been there in the first place to the original sound?

One of the headphones main advantage is precisely to get rid of the room acoustics problems. 

Because some people don't really like the sound of headphones or prefer the sound of their speakers, but for various reasons have the need to listen to headphones. For them, this is the best of both worlds.

[Kal Rubinson]

7 minutes ago, firedog said:

I don't get it.

What's the point of reproducing the flaws of your speakers/room combo in a headphone?

To supplant the spatial flaws of headphone reproduction and provide true multichannel sound..

 

1 hour ago, Fyper said:

Why add things which should never have been there in the first place to the original sound?

What is "added" is the appropriate soundstage and spatial cues which headphone listening cannot convey.

 

1 hour ago, Fyper said:

One of the headphones main advantage is precisely to get rid of the room acoustics problems. 

Yes but in doing so, the baby (recreation of the recording site acoustics) is thrown out with the bath (listening room acoustics).

[GUTB]

If I could be satisfied with just resolution, dynamics and low distortion I wouldn’t have sold my Focal Utopia to help finance a stereo speaker setup, set up a room and spend 3 times as much to achieve mid-fi. That’s because headphones can’t give you an expansive soundstage nor the whole-body physical dynamic power of speakers. Exofield gives you the illusion of an actual soundstage — but not the crappy / compromised accoustics of your room, but the accoustics of a dedicated studio. If I were to go to Japan and pay the $9k I would be seated in Victor Studio (JVC Kenwood studio famous in Japan) and measured there. I would have the accoustics of a high-end recording studio room — that’s extremely compelling.

 

They have me on the email list. The moment they announce the US offering I’m signing up. $2k plus a flight to CA is a small price to pay.

[PeterG]

6 minutes ago, GUTB said:

If I could be satisfied with just resolution, dynamics and low distortion I wouldn’t have sold my Focal Utopia to help finance a stereo speaker setup, set up a room and spend 3 times as much to achieve mid-fi. That’s because headphones can’t give you an expansive soundstage nor the whole-body physical dynamic power of speakers. Exofield gives you the illusion of an actual soundstage — but not the crappy / compromised accoustics of your room, but the accoustics of a dedicated studio. If I were to go to Japan and pay the $9k I would be seated in Victor Studio (JVC Kenwood studio famous in Japan) and measured there. I would have the accoustics of a high-end recording studio room — that’s extremely compelling.

 

They have me on the email list. The moment they announce the US offering I’m signing up. $2k plus a flight to CA is a small price to pay.

 

Ummm...each person has different tastes, and it's not for others to judge your ear...but you sold a pair of Focal Utopias en route to buying JVC headphones?  I think you've established yourself as having a perspective and/or ear that is dramatically different than most.