SOtM sNH-10G - SOtM’s first network switch

[romaz]

15 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

A stellar review. Thank you. I'm still going to wait for up-and-coming UpTone. They swear it'll be the bee knees at 1/3rd of the price. 

 

Like many here, my loyalty is to what sounds best and if the Uptone switch sounds best, I will move to it, however, the sNH-10G has set a very high bar.

 

The one possible downside with the Uptone switch is that its lone isolated port runs at 10/100 Mbits and while I understand the rationale for this, this limited throughput probably makes this switch less than ideal for passing 4K video.  As stated, I am finding the sNH-10G extraordinary for home theater and not just 2-channel audio.

[LowMidHigh]

2 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Are you able to speculate on the result of using this switch without the sCLK-EX but instead using a clock point (via SMB) from a tX-USBultra that is re-clocked by an OCX10?  Are there any issues you can foresee with this approach?

 

I would be most grateful for your thoughts.

 

 

I’m not an expert, but I can apply common sense and deduct. Every device requires a clock to operate, but the time domain is only introduced when the signal is converted to spiff/Aes/analog. Before that points, it contains only a bit stream and a leading field indicating the frequency sample to be applied. 

 

For that reason, the accuracy of the clock inside the switch is a minor factor in the SQ. UpTone goes as far as to reveal that fact and attributes the SQ contribution of their new product to blocking the “leaks” from upstream. Furthermore, by their own words, they added the ref clock input as a nod to the current 10hz fashion. A classic example of somber engineering stepping back to the gushing forces of the marketplace. 

 

I’m doubtful any blind test will flash out the high-end clock. Nevertheless, it’ll satisfy the nervosa of many audiophiles and make SOtM happy as it fills its coffers to the tunes of $700 per unit.

 

In general, SOtM brims with great deal of talent, but like AudioQuest, their catalog is a mixed bag of excellent engineering with a dollop of snake oil. One should tread carefully when reviewing it.

 

My personal option and observation of course.

[LowMidHigh]

39 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

Like many here, my loyalty is to what sounds best and if the Uptone switch sounds best, I will move to it, however, the sNH-10G has set a very high bar.

 

The one possible downside with the Uptone switch is that its lone isolated port runs at 10/100 Mbits and while I understand the rationale for this, this limited throughput probably makes this switch less than ideal for passing 4K video.  As stated, I am finding the sNH-10G extraordinary for home theater and not just 2-channel audio.

 

If UpTone delivers, then I suppose we'll have two different ponies to tackle different terrains. 

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

If UpTone delivers, then I suppose we'll have two different ponies to tackle different terrains. 

But SOtM will offer a Napa leather saddle and a silver bridle as options.

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

But SOtM will offer a Napa leather saddle and a silver bridle as options.

Gilded horseshoes hasn't made any pony run faster, only looks pretty. 

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

 

I’m not an expert, but I can apply common sense and deduct. Every device requires a clock to operate, but the time domain is only introduced when the signal is converted to spiff/Aes/analog. Before that points, it contains only a bit stream and a leading field indicating the frequency sample to be applied. 

 

For that reason, the accuracy of the clock inside the switch is a minor factor in the SQ. UpTone goes as far as to reveal that fact and attributes the SQ contribution of their new product to blocking the “leaks” from upstream. Furthermore, by their own words, they added the ref clock input as a nod to the current 10hz fashion. A classic example of somber engineering stepping back to the gushing forces of the marketplace. 

 

I’m doubtful any blind test will flash out the high-end clock. Nevertheless, it’ll satisfy the nervosa of many audiophiles and make SOtM happy as it fills its coffers to the tunes of $700 per unit.

 

In general, SOtM brims with great deal of talent, but like AudioQuest, their catalog is a mixed bag of excellent engineering with a dollop of snake oil. One should tread carefully when reviewing it.

 

My personal option and observation of course.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  I assume you've never experienced a 10MHz reference clock in your system.  ?

[LowMidHigh]

12 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  I assume you've never experienced a 10MHz reference clock in your system.  ?

Actually, as you can gleam from my signature, I owe a REF10 which feeds a chain of two MC3+USB. The benefits are tremendous. 

 

Notwithstanding the advantages of precision clocking in the time domain, my common sense and schooling point to a more sober conclusion when the application is network packats (I outlined my thought process above) . If you wish to educate me otherwise, I'm ready and willing. 

 

 

[Superdad]

51 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

Notwithstanding the advantages of precision clocking in the time domain, my common sense and schooling point to a more sober conclusion when the application is network packats (I outlined my thought process above) . If you wish to educate me otherwise, I'm ready and willing. 

 

We actually we do believe that low-phase noise clocking is important in Ethernet and USB, and John is working on his measurement system to prove how and why it affects the DAC output (hint, its a bit to do with clock edges and PS bounce on the planes of downstream receiving devices).

That's why we are using a Crystek CCHD-575 in the EtherREGEN (as we do in the ISO REGEN).  Despite Crystek's modestly and conservative stance (the published graphs don't show it), the actual production 575s are running in the -108 to -112 dBc/Hz at 10Hz offset.  That is extraordinary for a $10 clock! [As an aside, SOtM has never published phase-noise performance figures for the sCLK-EX clock synthesizer board used in all their "Ultra" models and in their new switch.  It can only be as good as whatever custom crystal they use as input to the Silicon Labs synth chip/]

 

Our stance going into any project is do all the important things really well, and not to go overboard in areas that might not deserve it.  With EtherREGEN we are focused on very special active isolation AND clocking.  And by isolation we are not just referring to blockage of network AC leakage currents, as most of that we are handling effectively with selection of magnetics and PHY.

 

I know this is not the thread for us to be discussing our product in.  I just want to avoid mis-information about what we are doing and our goals.  When the time comes we will explain much more--likely with a block diagram.

 

Lastly, to be clear, we are including (at no extra charge) the input for a 10Mhz reference clock because who knows, it might turn out to be a worthwhile (if expensive unless someone already has a ref clock) up-tick in SQ.  Time will tell. (that's a clock pun, sorry ).

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

Fresh and engrossing information. Thank you. 

 

Like many others here, I'm rooting for you. Still, the only direct reference to my point, "hint, its a bit to do with clock edges and PS bounce on the planes of downstream receiving devices," leaves me more confused than enlighted. 

 

I'm not asking for elaboration; you're a busy man. But maybe you can shade more light in future. 

[rickca]

29 minutes ago, Superdad said:

its a bit to do with clock edges and PS bounce on the planes of downstream receiving devices

Everybody understands what that means.  Just kidding.

[LowMidHigh]

19 minutes ago, rickca said:

Everybody understands what that means.  Just kidding.

 

"Clock edges" is a known concept affected by jitters and affecting SQ in turn. But how it would have any implications on a pure bit stream devoid of clock information is beyond me switch - > receiving device). 

 

PS = power supply? If so, how would a clock be related to power supplies and then bounce on the "planes' of receiving devices? Perhaps I'm an ignoramus, or they foster thier own private hypothesis. 

 

Regardless, the theory of clocking vis-a-vis a network switch isn't a trade secret or patentable process. It's academic knowledge and as such could be expounded in simple terms. 

[baconbrain]

I find this discussion quite interesting given that is difficult to comprehend how a switch can have this level of “perceived” impact on SQ.

[Elberoth]

Just got the SOtM switch. It has the sCLK-EX clocking board installed and an extra 10M clock input. 

 

I started with taking the unit apart (as usuall ...):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The promissing part is that this is not some cheap TP-Link router in disguise. It uses what seems to be their own board / PCB design. The PCB takes about 2/3 of the unit's real estate. My unit has the optional sCLK-EX clock module installed (which is stacked over the main PCB). I like the fact that they use the proper coaxial cable for the 10M clock input, terminated with a proper 50 Ohm RF connector (SMB type) on the PCB end. It shows an attention to detail one should expect from $1000+ product. 

 

The bad part is that I don't know when I will be able to evaluate the product. I'm still burried with work, so that may take 3-4 weeks. Probably other will be faster with posting their own reviews. 

[elan120]

34 minutes ago, Elberoth said:

Just got the SOtM switch. It has the sCLK-EX clocking board installed and an extra 10M clock input. 

 

I started with taking the unit apart (as usuall ...):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The promissing part is that this is not some cheap TP-Link router in disguise. It uses what seems to be their own board / PCB design. The PCB takes about 2/3 of the unit's real estate. My unit has the optional sCLK-EX clock module installed (which is stacked over the main PCB). I like the fact that they use the proper coaxial cable for the 10M clock input, terminated with a proper 50 Ohm RF connector (SMB type) on the PCB end. It shows an attention to detail one should expect from $1000+ product. 

 

The bad part is that I don't know when I will be able to evaluate the product. I'm still burried with work, so that may take 3-4 weeks. Probably other will be faster with posting their own reviews. 

Thank you for sharing the pics.  Is the top panel easily removable?  From the picture, it looks like there are two Phillips screws, but not sure if that was all holding the top panel down.

[Elberoth]

No. You have to slide the PCB out. The box is a complete aluminium extrusion, with front and back panels attached to it. 

[elan120]

4 minutes ago, Elberoth said:

No. You have to slide the PCB out. The box is a complete aluminium extrusion, with front and back panels attached to it. 

Thank you.  Sounds like similar design like txUSBUltra in different size enclosure.

[Adyc]

Is it possible to mount this switch on the wall?

[Elberoth]

You probably could DIY sth, as the switch is very light. But no factory provision for wall mounting.

[tedwoods]

I've had the switch for sometime now and what I hear has reached a certain level of consistency, so I thought of sharing...

The switch adds an almost physical element to music reproduction.

It captures the energy and vibrancy of the recording by harnessing dynamic nuances and adding body around the notes.

For example, sometimes when I hear an acoustic guitar being strummed, I seem to hear only the strings and the top vibrating. Something is missing... Now, I hear the body too and how it interacts with the top.

It all adds up to making everything more realistic and more intelligible: the bass lines are so easy to follow and everything seems to jump at you right out of the speakers. The sound is fat and wholesome and everything sounds louder and clearer. 

All in all, I am impressed to say the least!

A loaner pic from the sms thread finds its "rightful place" ?:

 

[spotforscott]

@tedwoods Thanks for your review. How many hours to break-in?

[tedwoods]

50 minutes ago, spotforscott said:

@tedwoods Thanks for your review. How many hours to break-in?

Not that many actually...

The switch's main traits, are rather obvious from the get-go, but it took around a week or so for the sound to fully mature, especially in the midrange and bass.

In the first few days of my using the switch, I've used an s-booster (first generation) power supply with it, but then found a used sps-500 and its addition also seemed to refine things a bit, especially at frequency extremes with cymbals having a bit more mass and depth and the low notes having a more distinct extension.

In the New Year, I also intend to try the Farad power supply from the Netherlands (of Pink Faun fame)...

[Johnny Moondog]

Just downloaded the sNH-10G manual and noticed the illustration showing an example of connections. They have the NAS connected to an SFP port with an optical cable.

 

I presume that's not necessarily a recommendation, but just to show one of the two SFP ports being used?

[Johnny Moondog]

Is there any advantage to ordering the sNH-10G configured as 12V instead of the standard 9V?

 

The sNH-10G has three power options:
- 9V (standard)
- 12V optional when installing sCLK-EX
- 6.5V ~ 8.5V optional when installing sCLK-EX

 

The SOtM sPS-500 Power Supply provides four options:
- 7V, 9V, 12V, and 19V

 

The Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 and JS-2 Linear Power Supply both provide four options:
- 5V, 7V, 9V, and 12V
 

[Johnny Moondog]

I don’t yet have a Mutec REF10, but understand that it provides reference outputs with both 50ohm and 75ohm impedance.

 

Is there any advantage to ordering the sCLK-EX clock & master clock input as 50ohm or 75ohm?

 

Thanks for any feedback to this or the previous questions!

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, Johnny Moondog said:

I don’t yet have a Mutec REF10, but understand that it provides reference outputs with both 50ohm and 75ohm impedance.

 

Is there any advantage to ordering the sCLK-EX clock & master clock input as 50ohm or 75ohm?

 

Thanks for any feedback to this or the previous questions!

 

Generally, you have more cable alternatives with 75 ohm.