This has to get more attention - a consumer DAC from RME

[runnin17]

@wushuliu you should not make claims without evidence to back them up. Simply saying, "google it" is sophomoric at best and shows how little effort you put into your thoughts/comments.

 

The fact that you continue to just essentially roll your proverbial internet eyes and dismiss people when they ask for more information further supports this. You do no one any favors by throwing around accusations/rumors and then not being willing to back them up with further information other than "google it". 

 

Enjoy retirement.....

I will end it at that. Any further responses I will take to PM. Cheers everyone.

[Aboulfad]

Any other opinions from owners of the ADI-2 DAC? I’ve read all the reviews, and they all seem favorable. Only one aspect that makes me hesitate is that I like “warm”, “colour”, “musical” sound over detail/resolution/...

 

And most reviews found that it is neutral, detailed,... hence would it be a bad match for average equipment and speakers? I have an Anthem MRX-720 and a very old pair of ProAc Studio 2 speakers.

 

And do most owners use it for headphone listening or connected to an amp/AVR? 

 

Thank you. 

PS: this DAC is currently not available in the US online store

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

I have a consumer grade RME DAC which I use on my desktop, the Babyface which I consider excellent sonically and value for money. History may not always be a reliable guide but would think the ADI-2 DAC  is worth an audition

[Aboulfad]

58 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I have a consumer grade RME DAC which I use on my desktop, the Babyface which I consider excellent sonically and value for money. History may not always be a reliable guide but would think the ADI-2 DAC  is worth an audition

Thanks, I am trying to find one locally to listen to, but the distributor is no help at all and told me to call each individual store ? . The make, build and reviews are all positive, it is a bit on the higher end of my budget compared to the NuPrime DAC-9, but it seems the RME is a far superior DAC and am willing to spend the extra.

 

pS: I called few stores, finally one said they think they can order it, $2600CDN, f these thieves!

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

10 hours ago, Aboulfad said:

Thanks, I am trying to find one locally to listen to, but the distributor is no help at all and told me to call each individual store ? . The make, build and reviews are all positive, it is a bit on the higher end of my budget compared to the NuPrime DAC-9, but it seems the RME is a far superior DAC and am willing to spend the extra.

 

pS: I called few stores, finally one said they think they can order it, $2600CDN, f these thieves!

 

Have you tried emailing , or better, phoning RME directly telling them of your difficulties auditioning their product? Maybe ask for the marketing or product manger. Phone  a few local stores tho beforehand.

 

I did this once and the manufacturer sent the product to the distributor and arranged a large discount for me!

[Aboulfad]

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Have you tried emailing , or better, phoning RME directly telling them of your difficulties auditioning their product? Maybe ask for the marketing or product manger. Phone  a few local stores tho beforehand.

 

I did this once and the manufacturer sent the product to the distributor and arranged a large discount for me!

Thanks for the suggestions, I did contact the Canadian distributor which wasn’t helpful and then few local stores which quoted  the outrageous Canadian ripoff price with a 200% markup (2000USD). Let’s just hope when it’s stocked on the US online store that they accept shipping to freeportforwarding and the I can go pick it up right across the border.

[Ralf11]

or get it shipped to a friend 

[Aboulfad]

Q: few of the reviews heavily focus on the headphone output, can I assume this is due only to its portable size and excellent headphone output, and that it operates very well when connected to an amp/speakers?

 

I assume it operates as pre-amp and is solid enough to drive the line outs feeding any modern AVR? Thank you.

 

It is  just confusing when few of the small portable DACs seem to be used mostly for desktop music listening coupled w headphones.

[Abtr]

The RME ADI-2 DAC USB driver sucks and Windows10's new USB Audio 2.0 driver doesn’t help.

 

I'll explain. Contrary to Mac OS X, Windows 7, 8 and earlier versions 10 didn't see external DACs as audio devices without an installed proprietary audio driver. With the driver installed, every DAC I know/tried automatically uses the sample rate and bit depth of the audio file being played in WASAPI exclusive mode. But not the RME ASIO driver for the ADI-2 DAC. It is not sample rate aware; it always plays the sample rate you selected in the app that comes with it, regardless of the actual resolution of the played file. That may be what sound engineers prefer, but for me it sucks.

 

Now the native Mac OS X audio driver in exclusive mode perfectly adapts to the file resolution with any DAC I know of and without any proprietary driver installed. This includes the ADI-2 DAC, which plays bit perfect and sample rate aware with my Mac Mini. Microsoft and RME promise the same functionality with the latest Microsoft Windows10 OSs that have the new class compliant Windows USB Audio 2.0 driver. But it doesn't work with the ADI-2 DAC.

 

I did a clean install of Windows 10 (home edition) version 1809 on a Lenovo laptop. Then I installed Foobar2000 with the latest WASAPI plug-in (version 3.3) and I installed the latest Tidal desktop application. And.. the ADI-2 DAC doesn't play with Foobar's WASAPI plug-in (it only plays in DS mode) and Tidal appears to play in WASAPI Exclusive mode, but outputs the Windows Shared mode sample rate and Windows volume control changes the volume.

 

Everything should be good. In Tidal exclusive mode is selected. In Foobar2000 ADI-2 WASAPI (event or push) is selected  as output. In the Windows control panel Sound dialogue for the ADI-2 both exclusive mode options on the Advanced tab are checked. The Enhancements tab is strangely missing so I can't check if Windows' sound effects are all turned off. But according to RME the missing tab is normal with Windows class compliant USB audio..

 

I'm currently out of options, except for upgrading to Windows10 Professional or Enterprise edition. Does anyone here successfully run the RME ADI-2 DAC with Windows10 (any edition) in exclusive mode? Any suggestions are much appreciated! 

[Miska]

Sounds like the problem you have is more to do with the applications and less with the drivers. On Windows, just stick to ASIO...

 

[chetthejet]

I just got this dac two weeks ago (ordered from Sweetwater) and I like it.....a lot!  Sound quality is wonderful (crystal clear, great bass, etc.), lots of features including PEQ, firmware easily upgradeable (and RME is actively releasing upgrades), and cool (at least to me) and configurable front panel display.  Tons of functionality at a reasonable price.

 

I'm using it in conjunction with an ultraRendu and have not had any issues with playing or connection other than quickly learning that the ADI-2 DAC cannot be in standby mode when the ultraRendu is attempting to handshake with it---the ADI must be completely powered up or the uR doesn't see it.  After that, the ADI will happily go into standby and the connection with the uR is maintained.

[Abtr]

@chetthejet Yes, the ADI-2 DAC also works fine with my Mac Mini. The problem occurs (as I described above) with the new Windows10 USB Audio 2.0 driver. Exclusive mode with Tidal does not work as expected (Windows still dictates the output sample rate and volume). Foobar WASAPI doesn't work at all.

 

It may be a Windows problem. But other DACs have proprietary WASAPI drivers that support exclusive mode. The ADI-2 DAC only has an ASIO driver that outputs a single selected sample rate and doen't use the actual sample rate of the file being played. The new Windows10 audio driver should support WASAPI exclusive mode for all sound devices and use the file sample rate, but it doesn't.. 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, Abtr said:

It may be a Windows problem. But other DACs have proprietary WASAPI drivers that support exclusive mode. The ADI-2 DAC only has an ASIO driver that outputs a single selected sample rate and doen't use the actual sample rate of the file being played. The new Windows10 audio driver should support WASAPI exclusive mode for all sound devices and use the file sample rate, but it doesn't.. 

 

ASIO driver certainly allows setting any of the supported sample rates, at least with my player. I just tested and I can play out at any of the supported PCM rates from 44.1k to 768k and also DSD from 2.8 MHz to 12.2 MHz.

 

Only WASAPI has the limitation that you need to manually change the rate if you want.

 

[Abtr]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

ASIO driver certainly allows setting any of the supported sample rates, at least with my player. I just tested and I can play out at any of the supported PCM rates from 44.1k to 768k and also DSD from 2.8 MHz to 12.2 MHz.

 

Only WASAPI has the limitation that you need to manually change the rate if you want.

It's the other way around. ASIO has the limitation that it plays out only a single sample rate, the one you select by hand in the settings app that comes with the RME driver software. WASAPI (exclusive mode) normally has the advantage that it automatically plays out the sample rate of the input audio file. But it apparently does not do this with the Windows10 USB audio 2.0 driver.

[Miska]

25 minutes ago, Abtr said:

It's the other way around. ASIO has the limitation that it plays out only a single sample rate, the one you select by hand in the settings app that comes with the RME driver software. WASAPI (exclusive mode) normally has the advantage that it automatically plays out the sample rate of the input audio file. But it apparently does not do this with the Windows10 USB audio 2.0 driver.

 

No, ASIO plays out at any supported rate, at least with my player, with RME driver and with all other drivers I remember having tried so far too.

 

25 minutes ago, Abtr said:

WASAPI (exclusive mode) normally has the advantage that it automatically plays out the sample rate of the input audio file.

 

Well, to be exact, rate of audio file and what rate plays out are not directly related...

 

I personally play all my files at fixed DSD output rate, DSD256 in case of RME ADI-2. I can play out at any rate or format I want, regardless of input file rate or format.

 

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

No, ASIO plays out at any supported rate, at least with my player, with RME driver and with all other drivers I remember having tried so far too.

Yes, but you must select the output sr by hand with the RME ASIO driver (Madiface).

 

10 hours ago, Miska said:

Well, to be exact, rate of audio file and what rate plays out are not directly related...

Well, they should be, and they usually are, with WASAPI exclusive mode and a decent audio device driver (apparently not Windows USB Audio 2.0 driver).

 

10 hours ago, Miska said:

I personally play all my files at fixed DSD output rate, DSD256 in case of RME ADI-2. I can play out at any rate or format I want, regardless of input file rate or format.

That's exactly what I do not want. I want my audio driver to play the sample rate and bit depth of the input file/stream. 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

Yes, but you must select the output sr by hand with the RME ASIO driver (Madiface).

 

No I don't, my player changes it. Never touched the RME ASIO driver's control panel.

 

Just today, for this discussion, tested it by going through different rates and formats from the player.

 

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

That's exactly what I do not want. I want my audio driver to play the sample rate and bit depth of the input file/stream.

 

OK, that's your preference.

 

I do upsampling in player software and specifically don't want to send the file as-is to the DAC, because I want best possible performance out of the DAC.

 

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

No I don't, my player changes it. Never touched the RME ASIO driver's control panel.

...

Well, my experience is that I must set the sample rate by hand with the RME ASIO driver, and that's what RME told me to do when I inquired about it. I don't use HQPlayer.

 

10 hours ago, Miska said:

OK, that's your preference.

 

I do upsampling in player software and specifically don't want to send the file as-is to the DAC, because I want best possible performance out of the DAC.

Hm, I want as little processing as possible done by the PC to keep it as electrically quite as possible, with less noise potentially invading the DAC through the USB connection.

 

Anyway, I have Foobar2000 working with the Windows10 UAC2 driver, with output set to WASAPI PUSH Speakers ADI-2 DAC at 32 bit.  24/96 plays nicely and the ADI-2 displays the correct sample rate. It now seems that the problem with the Windows Tidal app not playing the correct sample rate is a problem of the Windows Tidal software and not necessarily of the USB Audio 2.0 driver..

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

Well, my experience is that I must set the sample rate by hand with the RME ASIO driver, and that's what RME told me to do when I inquired about it. I don't use HQPlayer.

 

Works for me perfectly fine, and I'd assume it works with other applications supporting ASIO as well.

 

Here's snippet from HQPlayer's log as proof:

  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Loaded ASIO driver: ASIO MADIface USB
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO device supports DSD
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO device supports PCM
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO default format is PCM
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 44100
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 48000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 88200
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 96000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 176400
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 192000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 352800
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 384000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 705600
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 768000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Default ASIO channels: 2 in / 2 out
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Default output channel 0: Analog 1 (1)
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO SampleFormat 18, 32-bit
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Default output channel 1: Analog 2 (1)

  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO format set to DSD
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO DSD buffer size is in bits
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 2822400
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 3072000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 5644800
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 6144000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 11289600
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Rate available: 12288000
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Default ASIO channels: 2 in / 2 out
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Default output channel 0: Analog 1 (1)
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 ASIO DSD format MSB1
  2018/12/07 17:05:58 Default output channel 1: Analog 2 (1)

 

Only difference is that I have ADI-2 Pro (I have actually two) and not ADI-2 DAC, but AFAIK it shouldn't make any difference in this respect.

 

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

Hm, I want as little processing as possible done by the PC to keep it as electrically quite as possible, with less noise potentially invading the DAC through the USB connection.

 

I've measured ADI-2 output when playing this way and at least in my system there's no influence. With upsampling I get measured improved performance.

 

But those who are worried split this over network link using my network endpoint running on a separate low power device to isolate the processing server from the device doing actual playback.

 

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

It now seems that the problem with the Windows Tidal app not playing the correct sample rate is a problem of the Windows Tidal software and not necessarily of the USB Audio 2.0 driver..

 

Tidal's application is quite horrible. I use Roon to play Tidal through HQPlayer (Roon supports HQPlayer as playback engine). But probably Roon works perfectly fine alone with the RME's ASIO driver (I've just never tried it).

 

[Blake]

On 5/8/2018 at 11:51 PM, AudioDoctor said:

 

ralf, will you bankroll my retirement?

 

I will do it.  I have huge piles of cash, as I am the former Prince of Nigeria. 

 

Just send me a pm with all of your banking info, social security number and password.  

 

Cheers

 

[Abtr]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

Works for me perfectly fine, and I'd assume it works with other applications supporting ASIO as well.

...

Nope, it's a known issue or trade (depending on your point of view) of the RME ASIO driver. I inquired why ADI-2 DAC didn't play 96 kHz files as such, and according to Matthias Carstens (RME): "You need to manually set the DAC to 96 kHz in its Settings dialog, all explained in the manual. If you use Roon with Tidal you can use ASIO, then it will work under Win 7 automatically. Otherwise it also works with Windows 10, without the RME driver."

[Miska]

20 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Nope, it's a known issue or trade (depending on your point of view) of the RME ASIO driver. I inquired why ADI-2 DAC didn't play 96 kHz files as such, and according to Matthias Carstens (RME): "You need to manually set the DAC to 96 kHz in its Settings dialog, all explained in the manual. If you use Roon with Tidal you can use ASIO, then it will work under Win 7 automatically. Otherwise it also works with Windows 10, without the RME driver."

 

I know Matthias. If you read that carefully, that applies to their WASAPI driver, not to the ASIO driver... He's saying there that with ASIO driver you can get the sample rate switched from the software. With their WASAPI driver not.

 

Tidal application doesn't support ASIO, while Roon does.

 

But if you don't want to believe that it is working the way I described, I don't think I can help it more. You can anyway try it out at any time without cost if you like, HQPlayer has free trial mode.

 

I have two of these devices and have been working with it since it arrived on the market. I even added some extra functionality to the Linux driver for it.

[Abtr]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

I know Matthias. If you read that carefully, that applies to their WASAPI driver, not to the ASIO driver... He's saying there that with ASIO driver you can get the sample rate switched from the software. With their WASAPI driver not.

...

As far as I know there exists no RME WASAPI driver for the ADI-2 DAC. Can you provide a download link?

 

9 hours ago, Miska said:

You can anyway try it out at any time without cost if you like, HQPlayer has free trial mode.

...

I might try it.

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, Abtr said:

As far as I know there exists no RME WASAPI driver for the ADI-2 DAC. Can you provide a download link?

 

It is in the very same driver package as the ASIO driver. The installer installs both...

 

  2018/12/07 17:05:01 Open WASAPI endpoint GUID: {0.0.0.00000000}.{eb2af813-d0d7-4e4d-91db-cb7af2c4f2ea}
  2018/12/07 17:05:01 Currently using: 'Analog (1+2) (RME ADI-2 Pro)'
  2018/12/07 17:05:01 Output type: Default
  2018/12/07 17:05:01 WinMiniEngine8 initialized
  2018/12/07 17:05:01 Discover rates for 2 channels
  2018/12/07 17:05:01 Format available: 44100/24 (32)
  2018/12/07 17:05:01 Format available: 44100/16 (16)

 

 

Here's link to one step newer driver than what I have installed:

http://rme-audio.de/download/driver_madiface_win_09680.zip

 

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, Blake said:

 

I will do it.  I have huge piles of cash, as I am the former Prince of Nigeria. 

 

Just send me a pm with all of your banking info, social security number and password.  

 

Cheers

 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA