Cxp Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 100% with @barrows imo traditional audiophile music never really sounds bad so you can go in circles. You want a system that that can make music of NIN “The day the world went away” then we are really talking. If you can clearly separate 3-4 highly distorted guitars with various effects on each and hear textural differences... BAM gstew and rickca 1 1 Link to comment
jamesg11 Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Continuing the OT ... my expectation, now ingrained after endless confirmations, is that better psu etc will only provide marginal upside with low-medium DR etc - the listening fatigue kicks in early! rickca 1 macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs. Link to comment
Cxp Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 1 minute ago, jamesg11 said: Continuing the OT ... my expectation, now ingrained after endless confirmations, is that better psu etc will only provide marginal upside with low-medium DR etc - the listening fatigue kicks in early! I don’t concur with this statement. Overall mastering quality trumps DR value. Also so if you are getting listening fatigue I question something else is causing this. Aliasing from upsampling? Noise from somwhere? I have not found DR 5 music to be at all fatiguing with proper setup. But it is much more revealing of other issues. rickca and barrows 1 1 Link to comment
jamesg11 Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 So, you’re finding DR5s to be on your ok mastering quality map? Any Iggy Pop DR0s as well? I’m now well OT & therefore out. rickca 1 macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs. Link to comment
Cxp Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Just now, jamesg11 said: So, you’re finding DR5s to be on your ok mastering quality map? Any Iggy Pop DR0s as well? I’m now well OT & therefore out. There is more to mastering than a compression level, take Tool 10,000 days... the producer avoids digital editing at all cost and tries to experiment in the analog and experiment with physical mix placement etc... i much rather prefer this to a DR 12 when someone jacks it up with digital effects and doesn’t know what they are doing with the analog equipment. For instance touching the EQ excessively. Im just stating this is a very granular issue and not that simple. Also, you need to throw out tons of remasters as examples of Low DR . rickca 1 Link to comment
Cxp Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 I can tie this back full circle. I have heard DR 5 music being harsh when network noise is present or aliasing during during upsampling. I have heard a cable modem router make my system unlistenable. An fmc set cleaned up and but added some mud... the best so far is a modified network switch Dlink. I truly believe network noise is real and in particular adds an edge to music in some instances. I’m not surprised higher compression levels sound worse on suboptimal setups... it’s less forgiving. I fully expect the EtherRegen to make properly mastered music of a variety of DR’s to all sound better. gstew 1 Link to comment
jamesg11 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Any implications ... re Sonore optical devices ...? macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs. Link to comment
rickca Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 @superdad and @JohnSwenson can you please explain how EtherREGEN and Sonore systemOptique work together? Some use cases would be helpful. I'm not clear whether I need both products or just EtherREGEN. I realize that Jesus hasn't yet announced all the systemOptique components. Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Popular Post vortecjr Posted December 27, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2018 39 minutes ago, rickca said: @superdad and @JohnSwenson can you please explain how EtherREGEN and Sonore systemOptique work together? Some use cases would be helpful. I'm not clear whether I need both products or just EtherREGEN. I realize that Jesus hasn't yet announced all the systemOptique components. The short answer is the UpTone Audio EtherREGEN is a switch with optical Ethernet and cable Ethernet ports, the Sonore opticalRendu is a renderer or endpoint with an optical Ethernet port, and the Sonore opticalModule is a simple bidirectional optical Ethernet to/from cable Ethernet converter. The usage of these alone or in combination with each other depends on what you want to accomplish. Superdad and gstew 1 1 SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | endPoint | opticalModule DX | Power Supplies | Link to comment
rickca Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, vortecjr said: the Sonore opticalModule is a simple bidirectional optical Ethernet to/from cable Ethernet converter I guess my initial question is whether it's worth putting a Sonore opticalModule between my router and the EtherREGEN using the SFP fiber ethernet input of the EtherREGEN. Would this yield any better results at the clean isolated output of the EtherREGEN, or is it unnecessary? Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Popular Post JohnSwenson Posted December 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2018 6 hours ago, rickca said: I guess my initial question is whether it's worth putting a Sonore opticalModule between my router and the EtherREGEN using the SFP fiber ethernet input of the EtherREGEN. Would this yield any better results at the clean isolated output of the EtherREGEN, or is it unnecessary? That specific question is probably going to be no. Nobody knows for sure since the EtherREGEN doesn't exist yet. But its entire purpose in life (at least from MY standpoint) is to completely eliminate any upstream effects (other than the actual bits), real honest to goodness "bits is bits" box. We will see how close I can actually get to that. John S. gstew, MikeyFresh, spotforscott and 2 others 1 3 1 Link to comment
jos Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 After reading a review about ethernet cables and how to use them in a home network, I wonder where I should place the EtherREGEN when I have one. In my present situation there is central Netgear 8 port unmanaged switch with iFi ipower. and from there several Supra CAT8 cables to my NAS, computer and so on. Most of them are 8 meter, or 10 meter, but some are quite short. One cable (8m) is going to my stereo rack with the ultraRendu. In the review I was reading there was the advice to place a switch very near to your stereo with a very good and short Ethernet cable to your streamer, in my case the ultraRendu. Should I do this, or just replace my central switch? Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted December 28, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2018 On 12/27/2018 at 3:52 PM, rickca said: I guess my initial question is whether it's worth putting a Sonore opticalModule between my router and the EtherREGEN using the SFP fiber ethernet input of the EtherREGEN. Would this yield any better results at the clean isolated output of the EtherREGEN, or is it unnecessary? Just to be clear, the Sonore opticalModule will be a small, simple, and well done fiber media converter. Copper to SFP (or SFP to copper as it is of course bi-directional as is all Ethernet). The EtherREGEN is far more sophisticated piece, with selected Ethernet switch chips and PHYs, active digital isolators followed by high-speed, ultra-low-jitter differential flip-flops, and expensive clock synthesizer and reference clock to generate the 4 required clocks. There is an isolation moat and boatload of LT3042/45 regulators. So very different products, and as with ISO REGEN, not aimed directly at Sonore users, though just at with ISO REGEN we expect that some people will pair them together. But there is not much point as functionally the EtherREGEN is a super-set of the opticalModule. In fact, the EtherREGEN could be used by some to produce a fiber connection to feed the forthcoming opticalRendu. Jesus, John, and I discussed that months ago, but it was clear that Sonore needed to offer a low-cost copper-to-optical solution. I won't get into details (it understandably makes Jesus mad as it is not my place), but since John and I have been working together on EtherREGEN (well he's the brains of course I just help define/focus and lamely help when he gets stuck) for about 1 year now, there are a couple of key components (chips) of the EtherREGEN that have found a home in both the opticalRendu and the opticalModule. It is a happy by-product of UpTone and Sonore sharing the design talents of the brilliant Mr. Swenson. (Though the arrangement does have the inevitable effect of slowing down the pace of product releases from both firms. John's next project should be cloning himself--though the debug process of that would be scary! ) Hope that settles this a bit. It is uncomfortable enough discussing unreleased products from my own company. Having to contrast it to another firm's unreleased products (ones that I know a lot about) doubles the awkwardness. So please all chill and give UpTone and Sonore time to get these things out there for all to enjoy. ? --Alex C. asdf1000, flkin, left channel and 5 others 6 1 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Superdad said: It is uncomfortable enough discussing unreleased products from my own company. This is your own fault - don't mention the unreleased product/s and then there's no uncomfortable discussion to be had before it's official release ? All friendly jokes aside though : 1 hour ago, Superdad said: Just to be clear, the Sonore opticalModule will be a small, simple, and well done fiber media converter. Copper to SFP (or SFP to copper as it is of course bi-directional as is all Ethernet). This will probably become clearer when pics/images are available - but will this opticalModule slip inside the SFP cage of the EtherRegen? Or is it a bigger and separate box/housing? Happy Holidays to you and @JohnSwenson and the Uptone Team. Link to comment
Popular Post JohnSwenson Posted December 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2018 The Sonore opticalModule is a small box with SFP cage and RJ45 jack (and power connector of course). It is NOT an SFP module itself, you plug an SFP module into it. It is an extremely well done FMC. John S. MikeyFresh, Superdad, gstew and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Thanks John. I had initially wrongly assumed that the "Sonore opticalModule" was a Sonore designed optical SFP module itself. All is clear now. Link to comment
sahmen Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Am I interested in this? of coirse I am. Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, jos said: Any news? Yes, the news is that many people ask if there's any news. Cornan 1 Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted January 10, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2019 10 hours ago, jos said: Any news? Everything is proceeding well, though a little behind schedule. A semi-final round of test boards were just ordered, and last week we took a more serious look at the bill of materials and exact parts availability for production. Will release more details when ready. I'll say one thing though: EtherREGEN is chock full of a lot of expensive parts! Without counting the case, the stock SMPS it will ship with, or the cost of the blank PCB or PCB assembly/soldering, I can see that our cost for the main chips, clocks, 15(!) LT3042/45 voltage regulators, jacks, etc. is already up over $200. Adding in those other elements will likely bring our cost to around $275, plus royalty for John and then our standard, very modest times 2 business model to arrive at direct sale price--I think we can set folks expectations that this is going to be a $600 switch. Of course it is one with tech not available in ANY other Ethernet switch--and it is likely to outperform a certain 3x the price competitor. Earlier this week we went though a mental exercise of considering putting the EtherREGEN in a larger and fancier case--with all the jacks at the back. (As opposed to the current plan of it going in the same case series/size as the UltraCap LPS-1.2.) The obvious choice for me would be a half-height version of the beautiful JS-2 case which we source customized from Japan. But aside from that case costing us over $100, it adds assembly labor (they come unassembled), a lot of storage space requirements, and a serious amount of packaging and shipping cost. We ship the JS-2 in a floating double-box system that measures 14" x 14" x 9". Even if I came up with a smaller box and foam set-up, we would not be able to ship worldwide for the low freight $ we do with the UltraCap. So unless the final board puts off such a ridiculous amount of heat requiring a big case--which we doubt--people are just going to have to accept that we crammed SOTA tech into a modest case which will have cables going in front and rear. It will be a crazy-great switch, it just won't be eye-candy! By the way, late last year I negotiated some fantastic small package international rates with my FedEx rep. So now we offer fast FedEx Express to anywhere in the world for the same $34 that it costs us to ship insured Priority Mail--for an UltraCap or ISO REGEN size package. That's all for now. By the way, another dozen JS-2s just shipped out to clients yesterday--a day ahead of schedule. My assistant rocks, so I gave her the day off today. And won't she be surprised to come into work tomorrow and see that I had the plumber here all day finally--after 2 years of occupying the space--finishing the bathroom of the shop. I won't get into the complexities of why it got delayed, but she is going to be delighted to no long have to come into the house for her nature breaks. Okay, so maybe that's not the "news" you were asking about. Still, perhaps better than the news of the world... jjraffin, Solstice380, pl_svn and 8 others 1 10 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
rickca Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 @Superdad does this mean the project is in the toilet? Superdad 1 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted January 10, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, rickca said: @Superdad does this mean the project is in the toilet? No, it just means we have a can doo attitude! pl_svn, austinpop and Jud 3 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
thyname Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 50 minutes ago, Superdad said: Everything is proceeding well, though a little behind schedule. A semi-final round of test boards were just ordered, and last week we took a more serious look at the bill of materials and exact parts availability for production. Will release more details when ready. I'll say one thing though: EtherREGEN is chock full of a lot of expensive parts! Without counting the case, the stock SMPS it will ship with, or the cost of the blank PCB or PCB assembly/soldering, I can see that our cost for the main chips, clocks, 15(!) LT3042/45 voltage regulators, jacks, etc. is already up over $200. Adding in those other elements will likely bring our cost to around $275, plus royalty for John and then our standard, very modest times 2 business model to arrive at direct sale price--I think we can set folks expectations that this is going to be a $600 switch. Of course it is one with tech not available in ANY other Ethernet switch--and it is likely to outperform a certain 3x the price competitor. Earlier this week we went though a mental exercise of considering putting the EtherREGEN in a larger and fancier case--with all the jacks at the back. (As opposed to the current plan of it going in the same case series/size as the UltraCap LPS-1.2.) The obvious choice for me would be a half-height version of the beautiful JS-2 case which we source customized from Japan. But aside from that case costing us over $100, it adds assembly labor (they come unassembled), a lot of storage space requirements, and a serious amount of packaging and shipping cost. We ship the JS-2 in a floating double-box system that measures 14" x 14" x 9". Even if I came up with a smaller box and foam set-up, we would not be able to ship worldwide for the low freight $ we do with the UltraCap. So unless the final board puts off such a ridiculous amount of heat requiring a big case--which we doubt--people are just going to have to accept that we crammed SOTA tech into a modest case which will have cables going in front and rear. It will be a crazy-great switch, it just won't be eye-candy! By the way, late last year I negotiated some fantastic small package international rates with my FedEx rep. So now we offer fast FedEx Express to anywhere in the world for the same $34 that it costs us to ship insured Priority Mail--for an UltraCap or ISO REGEN size package. That's all for now. By the way, another dozen JS-2s just shipped out to clients yesterday--a day ahead of schedule. My assistant rocks, so I gave her the day off today. And won't she be surprised to come into work tomorrow and see that I had the plumber here all day finally--after 2 years of occupying the space--finishing the bathroom of the shop. I won't get into the complexities of why it got delayed, but she is going to be delighted to no long have to come into the house for her nature breaks. Okay, so maybe that's not the "news" you were asking about. Still, perhaps better than the news of the world... ‘Very nice ...... toilet! 😉 Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 56 minutes ago, Superdad said: Everything is proceeding well, though a little behind schedule. A semi-final round of test boards were just ordered, and last week we took a more serious look at the bill of materials and exact parts availability for production. Will release more details when ready. I'll say one thing though: EtherREGEN is chock full of a lot of expensive parts! Without counting the case, the stock SMPS it will ship with, or the cost of the blank PCB or PCB assembly/soldering, I can see that our cost for the main chips, clocks, 15(!) LT3042/45 voltage regulators, jacks, etc. is already up over $200. Adding in those other elements will likely bring our cost to around $275, plus royalty for John and then our standard, very modest times 2 business model to arrive at direct sale price--I think we can set folks expectations that this is going to be a $600 switch. Of course it is one with tech not available in ANY other Ethernet switch--and it is likely to outperform a certain 3x the price competitor. Earlier this week we went though a mental exercise of considering putting the EtherREGEN in a larger and fancier case--with all the jacks at the back. (As opposed to the current plan of it going in the same case series/size as the UltraCap LPS-1.2.) The obvious choice for me would be a half-height version of the beautiful JS-2 case which we source customized from Japan. But aside from that case costing us over $100, it adds assembly labor (they come unassembled), a lot of storage space requirements, and a serious amount of packaging and shipping cost. We ship the JS-2 in a floating double-box system that measures 14" x 14" x 9". Even if I came up with a smaller box and foam set-up, we would not be able to ship worldwide for the low freight $ we do with the UltraCap. So unless the final board puts off such a ridiculous amount of heat requiring a big case--which we doubt--people are just going to have to accept that we crammed SOTA tech into a modest case which will have cables going in front and rear. It will be a crazy-great switch, it just won't be eye-candy! By the way, late last year I negotiated some fantastic small package international rates with my FedEx rep. So now we offer fast FedEx Express to anywhere in the world for the same $34 that it costs us to ship insured Priority Mail--for an UltraCap or ISO REGEN size package. That's all for now. By the way, another dozen JS-2s just shipped out to clients yesterday--a day ahead of schedule. My assistant rocks, so I gave her the day off today. And won't she be surprised to come into work tomorrow and see that I had the plumber here all day finally--after 2 years of occupying the space--finishing the bathroom of the shop. I won't get into the complexities of why it got delayed, but she is going to be delighted to no long have to come into the house for her nature breaks. Okay, so maybe that's not the "news" you were asking about. Still, perhaps better than the news of the world... The LPS-1.2 case has the advantage of being wall-mountable. It'd take a few L-shapes hooks, but easy enough. What's the topology of the front panel? Which ports have you designated to that area? (Well done on the toilet! A major work condition improvement). Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
tboooe Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Superdad said: $600 switch Ok good to know. Need to start saving my pennies now. I've got a difficult decision to make though. I squirrelled away enough money during Xmas to buy another LPS-1.2 so now I need to decide if I should wait to buy the EtherRegen????? I know the right answer is to buy both but I've got two highly demanding daughters that think otherwise. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
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