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EtherREGEN: Early general details [Please don't ask too many questions yet!]

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57 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units

 

will need to place something very heavy on top of it, thanks to my ethernet cables stiffness 9_9

please consider making it "wall mountable" ;)

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)

I guess you mean 10/100 Mbps.  I hope it's OK to ask for a clarification on this point.  Are the SFP fiber ethernet cage and the isolated ethernet output jack two separate ports?  If so, I guess I don't understand the role of the SFP cage.

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:51 AM, Superdad said:

EtherREGEN (that's just a working codename, not saying we will use that)

Put me down for a pre-order unit!!!!!  :)

 

BTW, love the SFP port!

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1 hour ago, tboooe said:

Put me down for a pre-order unit!!!!!  :)

 

BTW, love the SFP port!

 

Actually, I am not that thrilled about the SFP port due to my previous experiences with fiber optical solutions. Copper Ethernet just sounds much more natural to me, but I remain open minded for Uptones Upsleeve! 😁

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I'm using optical just between my music system (where every device, NAS and switch included, runs on LPS) and the router/rest of the network so... happy I can get rid of one MC :)

 

only concern I have is... looks 10/100 SFPs are becoming pretty hard to find (only did a quick search on local Amazon) :|

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31 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Actually, I am not that thrilled about the SFP port due to my previous experiences with fiber optical solutions. Copper Ethernet just sounds much more natural to me, but I remain open minded for Uptones Upsleeve! 😁

 

While it is my fault for mentioning our in-development switch and a few of its details, let's please stop the discussion of it as this is the UltraCap LPS-1.2 thread.

 

As for the SFP cage:  It is just another "dirty-side" port--like the other 4 on the other end.  The one super-special clean, clocked, isolated port will be 10/100Mbps copper only.

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On 3/22/2018 at 12:51 PM, Superdad said:

the XO itself

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Just curious - did John and you consider using XO or even OCXO? Was that a cost tradeoff?

 

Of course, I can wait until you're ready to say more about the clock design.

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:51 AM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Blake:  Great question, though a bit premature.

 

Our switch will have one special "output" port (to go to the streamer/DAC), and that port will have a lot of expensive isolator chips (and high-quality clocking on that clean side--which also feeds back across the isolation moat to the switch chip) and crazy attention paid to power (lost track of how many voltage regs the whole thing has) and power plane domains.

So in theory the external DC supply for the EtherREGEN (that's just a working codename, not saying we will use that) should not matter to the performance.  But I won't be surprised if in reality it does.  Just like with our USB/ISO REGENs--which are plenty effective with their stock SMPS but also benefit from a great LPS.

 

 

But of course! :D

 

Oh heck, as long as I'm spilling a few beans, I'll give a few more tidbits (but we are saving details about all the whiz-bang performance stuff for the launch, so don't ask about the chips, the clocking, the isolation):

  • Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units
  • One end will have four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks
  • Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)
  • Every part--the magnetics, the Ethernet switch chip, the isolators, the clocking flops, the PHY for special port, the regulators, the clock synthesizer, the XO itself--are all carefully chosen to meed the ambitious goals of this design.

The cost of some of the parts is damn high, and we have not done anything more than a very rough cost analysis, so please don't ask about price.  I don't think it will be too bad (with very modest margin similar to LPS-1.2 we are hoping to keep this under $500), but given that it will smoke all those expensive modified off-the-shelf units, it should be another value winner for UpTone.

 

Please don't ask about release date.  You and I want it now, but I promised John he could first continue work on some important "clock fingerprint" measurement test boards.  As usual, we would dearly love to prove the efficacy of the REGENs (both USB and Ethernet), and if he is successful, the new measurement jig (involving special high-speed ADCs, a processor board, and a bunch of other boards) could provide proof for a range of upstream variables that we all hear, especially with regards to data clocking for which nobody understands why it makes a difference.  Could blow things wide open.  Or it could be a bust.  That's what research and test is all about.

Of course if the preproduction prototypes of the EtherREGEN test well on the bench--even if John's clock-marker tests don't get done in time or don't pan out--and if the unit is sonically effective in an audio system, then we are going to put it into production as soon as possible.

 

I honestly can't think of anything more that I would be willing to say about this forthcoming (a few months?) product.  So while I love you all, please don't ask. ¬¬

Back to the wonders and uses of the hot-selling UltraCap LPS-1.2!

 

--Alex C.

I so can't wait for this!!!

 

 

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On 3/25/2018 at 8:47 AM, austinpop said:

Just curious - did John and you consider using XO or even OCXO? Was that a cost tradeoff?

Of course, I can wait until you're ready to say more about the clock design.

 

Well the clocking in our switch is much more sophisticated than is typical as:

a) we have to pass the clock back across the isolation moat;

b) more than one frequency is used.

That is all I want to say about the clocking architecture at this time.

 

As for use of an OCXO: As John has written about this, cheap OCXOs are no better (often worse) than a good XO--one needs to spend hundreds (at OEM pricing) to get a really good OCXO.  And for data clocks (for USB, Ethernet, or processors), such is total overkill.  Save really great clocks for the DAC audio clock(s).  Even the clock boards in the SOtM units don't use a OCXO as a reference for the SiLabs synthesizer chip. 

Besides, this switch--and the issues we are tackling--is about far more than just clocking...9_9

 

3 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

I so can't wait for this!!!

 

That makes quite a few of us! :D

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4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Well the clocking in our switch is much more sophisticated than is typical as:

a) we have to pass the clock back across the isolation moat;

b) more than one frequency is used.

That is all I want to say about the clocking architecture at this time.

 

As for use of an OCXO: As John has written about this, cheap OCXOs are no better (often worse) than a good XO--one needs to spend hundreds (at OEM pricing) to get a really good OCXO.  And for data clocks (for USB, Ethernet, or processors), such is total overkill.  Save really great clocks for the DAC audio clock(s).  Even the clock boards in the SOtM units don't use a OCXO as a reference for the SiLabs synthesizer chip. 

Besides, this switch--and the issues we are tackling--is about far more than just clocking...9_9

 

Hi Alex,

 

Well - I am going to defer to John's expertise on this. Major kudos to him and you for trying to demystify this space. The audiophile switch market is heating up, and it will be interesting to contrast what you guys come up with versus other approaches:

  1. SOtM-modded switches, slaved to sCLK-EX on another box, in turn fed by an expensive OCXO 10 MHz reference clock
  2. SOtM's impending standalone switch (details unknown)
  3. Linear Solutions switch (OCXO in situ, plus external LPS)

I have no horse in this race. I just know how much I love the sound quality of config #1, which is what I currently have. If you guys can deliver that or better at a fraction of the cost, you'll have a major winner!

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On 22.3.2018. at 6:51 PM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Blake:  Great question, though a bit premature.

 

Our switch will have one special "output" port (to go to the streamer/DAC), and that port will have a lot of expensive isolator chips (and high-quality clocking on that clean side--which also feeds back across the isolation moat to the switch chip) and crazy attention paid to power (lost track of how many voltage regs the whole thing has) and power plane domains.

So in theory the external DC supply for the EtherREGEN (that's just a working codename, not saying we will use that) should not matter to the performance.  But I won't be surprised if in reality it does.  Just like with our USB/ISO REGENs--which are plenty effective with their stock SMPS but also benefit from a great LPS.

 

 

But of course! :D

 

Oh heck, as long as I'm spilling a few beans, I'll give a few more tidbits (but we are saving details about all the whiz-bang performance stuff for the launch, so don't ask about the chips, the clocking, the isolation):

  • Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units
  • One end will have four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks
  • Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)
  • Every part--the magnetics, the Ethernet switch chip, the isolators, the clocking flops, the PHY for special port, the regulators, the clock synthesizer, the XO itself--are all carefully chosen to meed the ambitious goals of this design.

The cost of some of the parts is damn high, and we have not done anything more than a very rough cost analysis, so please don't ask about price.  I don't think it will be too bad (with very modest margin similar to LPS-1.2 we are hoping to keep this under $500), but given that it will smoke all those expensive modified off-the-shelf units, it should be another value winner for UpTone.

 

Please don't ask about release date.  You and I want it now, but I promised John he could first continue work on some important "clock fingerprint" measurement test boards.  As usual, we would dearly love to prove the efficacy of the REGENs (both USB and Ethernet), and if he is successful, the new measurement jig (involving special high-speed ADCs, a processor board, and a bunch of other boards) could provide proof for a range of upstream variables that we all hear, especially with regards to data clocking for which nobody understands why it makes a difference.  Could blow things wide open.  Or it could be a bust.  That's what research and test is all about.

Of course if the preproduction prototypes of the EtherREGEN test well on the bench--even if John's clock-marker tests don't get done in time or don't pan out--and if the unit is sonically effective in an audio system, then we are going to put it into production as soon as possible.

 

I honestly can't think of anything more that I would be willing to say about this forthcoming (a few months?) product.  So while I love you all, please don't ask. ¬¬

Back to the wonders and uses of the hot-selling UltraCap LPS-1.2!

 

--Alex C.

 

Hi Alex,

 

I was pointed to this thread as I am on the market for an audio grade switch.

 

Will your upcoming switch be limited to voltages that your PSUs can supply (like the UltraCap LPS)? 

 

Will you be exhibiting at the upcoming High End show in Munich, and if yes, will you have the switch ready by then? 

 

 

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On 2018-03-22 at 6:51 PM, Superdad said:

Oh heck, as long as I'm spilling a few beans, I'll give a few more tidbits (but we are saving details about all the whiz-bang performance stuff for the launch, so don't ask about the chips, the clocking, the isolation):

  • Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units
  • One end will have four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks
  • Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)
  • Every part--the magnetics, the Ethernet switch chip, the isolators, the clocking flops, the PHY for special port, the regulators, the clock synthesizer, the XO itself--are all carefully chosen to meed the ambitious goals of this design.

 

Is it possible to have a seperate thread about this upcoming switch?

 

Even if you dont answer questions regarding it there are perhaps things that you can/will answer?

 

Today I use a Netgear GS108 with grounded -0V will your new switch also need a grounded -0V to shunt out the leackage?

 

Have you decided what voltage it will use, I asume it will be 7v if a LPS-1 can be used?

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I am really excited about this.  When I switched to Server 2016 core, I lost the ability to have a direct Ethernet connection between my HQP PC and NAA via a bridge.  Having to use a switch has taken away some of the dynamics and magic.  Hopefully this new Uptone product will help restore the great sound I was getting.

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i was planning to get my netgear switch semi modded this year .. glad i didnt . looking forward to this . keep us updated :D

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Why 4 ports ?

 

Will not 3 extra input ports and the fiber port just raise the price ?

 

Would not one input port be enough ?

 

If two special out is much more expensive, then why not make two version using the same print ? 

 

I hope using both sides can be avoided as with the stiff cables either Bluejeans or Ghent version will make the switch quite hard to keep in place.

 

Well, time will tell.

 

I wonder if we will see an Ethernet to HMDI (and maybe I2S) converter as next product. 

 

My Theta Casablanca prefer HMDI for multichannel playback. What I don’t yet have studied is how well Roon do multichannel and if such a product could act as an endpoint.

Maybe start another tread about Roon an how to do multichannel...

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