miguelito Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Given the loudness wars, I cannot imagine it is impossible to restore some of the dynamic range in a compressed recording. I understand that when music clips, or when you're using the top 2 MSBs in the 16bit word, you're not going to be able to recover resolution as you expand DR, but something better than nothing is surely possible. I would pay good money for such a filter. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Nikhil Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Upsampling to high DSD rates should be able to help take out some of the bite. miguelito 1 Custom Win10 Server | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Job INT | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110 Link to comment
miguelito Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Conversion to DSD might take some of the close-to-clip edge off, but will do nothing for DR. I am thinking of a DR expander that is smarter that simply just a non-linear transformation (think of the curves adjustment in photography, which is basically what the compressor is doing). The filter can be somewhat undone, albeit you will loose some resolution as the compression effectively "packs the music into the top significant bits". The "smarts" of the filter would come in: 1- Recovery of some of that resolution 2- Appropriate expansion for some specific common compressor settings (it seems like just a few compression devices are generally used) @Miska, @mansr, any ideas? Thx! Nikhil 1 NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
miguelito Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 @mitchco Saw your post on @Archimago 's article: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/08/musings-increasing-dynamic-range-of.html You mentioned the 1176LN is very common. I don't know how different the effect can be for different settings, but again would not be shocked if some common settings are generally used. So I am thinking one could try to profile it and create a few common DR restoration filters to somewhat undo the effect. Is this something feasible? Desirable? Thx. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Popular Post mitchco Posted March 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2018 The 1176 can be configured from soft compression to brickwall limiter plus the attack and release controls had a wide range of operation - all based on what one wanted to achieve. It can and was used for anything from gently compressing a single vocal track, to side chain compression and ducking for a mix, to brickwall limiting during the mastering process or on the stereo bus for streaming services... Again, on single tracks, subgroup, master bus, during recording, mixing and mastering... plus usually set to the beat of the music, which varied from tune to tune, all in all making it impossible to reverse engineer even a single tune... However, there are many declippers out there. One that gets a lot of attention is the http://www.perfectdeclipper.com/ You might want to check it out. Plus @dallasjustice is a user and could give you his impressions... miguelito and Nikhil 1 1 Accurate Sound Link to comment
diecaster Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 You can’t recover what is not there..... Link to comment
Nikhil Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, mitchco said: One that gets a lot of attention is the http://www.perfectdeclipper.com/ The improvements on the samples are very impressive. I hope that Roon can integrate something like this into their software. Custom Win10 Server | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Job INT | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110 Link to comment
diecaster Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Software like Perfect Declipper extrapolate and add information. By that I mean that make guesses at what might have been in the original sound and add information that may or may not have been there. So you are giving up any chance at listening to what is really there. It may or may not sound better...but so what if it does sound better? A lot of what you will be hearing is not real. Link to comment
firedog Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, diecaster said: Software like Perfect Declipper extrapolate and add information. By that I mean that make guesses at what might have been in the original sound and add information that may or may not have been there. So you are giving up any chance at listening to what is really there. It may or may not sound better...but so what if it does sound better? A lot of what you will be hearing is not real. Yes, of course. But I found the Paul McCartney album "Memory Almost Full" unlistenable because of the volume compression (I liked the songs). A friend gave me a version run through a "Declipper" and it made it listenable for me. So I don't care if it is "real"or not - I prefer it. No different than someone who prefers a heavy tube coloration to their playback. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
miguelito Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 6 hours ago, diecaster said: Software like Perfect Declipper extrapolate and add information. By that I mean that make guesses at what might have been in the original sound and add information that may or may not have been there. So you are giving up any chance at listening to what is really there. It may or may not sound better...but so what if it does sound better? A lot of what you will be hearing is not real. I get that for cases where clipping happens you just lost the information and will have to invent something - so does upsampling, but I get your point. However, there's also compression meaning a waveform that say spans 15dB are compressed to 5dB so that everything sounds louder. Obviously that compression does loose resolution (aka bit depth) but one could also interpolate those to a higher bit depth - which is what I would be looking for in a filter. But I am just speculating and would like to know what is feasible here... NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
miguelito Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 9 hours ago, mitchco said: However, there are many declippers out there. One that gets a lot of attention is the http://www.perfectdeclipper.com/ You might want to check it out. Plus @dallasjustice is a user and could give you his impressions... That's pretty impressive in terms of removing clipping noise. I would like to expand the DR though which I get the impression this is not quite doing. EDIT: I take that back, looking at "Stereo Tool" there seems to be appropriate instructions. Also: this is a VST plugin. Roon has said they will not support this because the mechanism requires access to the VST configuration interface, and it would be cumbersome with the choices Roon has made for audio distribution. It might be possible to use it with Audirvana though. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
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