JCAT's $5000 switch

[Marcin_gps]

The details of the internal design have to remain confidential. This is what I can share that I received from the Japan Telegärtner Ltd.:

 

Our M12 Switch Gold is not bound with those specifications of data transfer and electrical characteristics as a switching hub.  Therefore, it is difficult to evaluate by a simple comparison with those for commercially available ones.

The negativeness in various aspects such as EMI/EMC, electro-static field, induction, noise caused by subtle vibration of the chassis is taken into consideration, and the model design including various mechanical features and its assembly procedure are determined.
To realise these, absorbers and suppression parts are adopted in the model, and torque management takes place in various spots during the assembly.
The round M12 X-coded connctors have added a positive effect.
These are aimed for getting rid of a negative influence from the M12 Switch Gold to other pieces of connected network equipment such as supurious emission and transmission noise generated by the M12 Switch Gold, as well as for protecting the switch itself if an external inductive or electro-static influence comes in.

PCs, various network boards, switching hubs and routers are network equipment that transmits and receives various data, but become a signal source of transmitting and receiving unnecessary radio wave and noise (= subtle current) simultaneously.
A very high level of consideration is required to sweep these negative aspects.  The M12 Switch Gold uses aborbers and suppressors for that reason.

 

-----------------------

 

For those of you who are genuinely interested in the product, there will be several reviews soon, also in the US. I may arrange a demo tour among forum users too. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

[diecaster]

I would like to see a screen capture from a scope showing how the Ethernet signal coming out of this switch is any different/better that what comes out of another switch. A comparison to a inexpensive switch like the Netgear GS108 with the negative DC line input from the SMPS grounded would be fine.

[mansr]

36 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

The details of the internal design have to remain confidential.

Until someone opens the box and takes a picture.

 

36 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Our M12 Switch Gold is not bound with those specifications of data transfer and electrical characteristics as a switching hub.

Does this mean it isn't compatible with standard IEEE 802.3 Ethernet? What use is it then?

[Marcin_gps]

13 minutes ago, mansr said:

Until someone opens the box and takes a picture.

 

Does this mean it isn't compatible with standard IEEE 802.3 Ethernet? What use is it then?

 

Won't be that easy as it's hermetic. 

Of course it's compatible with  IEEE 802.3, IEEE802.3u, IEEE802.3ab

[Ralf11]

relating to an ancient occult tradition encompassing alchemy, astrology, and theosophy...

[mansr]

52 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Won't be that easy as it's hermetic. 

Everything can be opened.

[seeteeyou]

On 3/12/2018 at 9:02 PM, Marcin_gps said:

As I already wrote in the other topic: 

Actually the switch + 2 cables cost 442,800 yen which is more like 3373EUR. So yes, it's 20% cheaper in Japan as all Japanese audio products are (check Accuphase for example).

Now add import costs (shipping, customs, VAT).

 

As I already wrote in the other topic:

Actually the switch + 2 cables cost 320,000 yen + 25,600 yen (8% tax) = 345,600 yen despite what cables options are chosen. In other words, those cables aren't even optional since they're always sold as a set as shown below

 

http://www.telegaertner.co.jp/product/M12スイッチフライヤ.pdf#page=2

 

Would you please kindly stop trying to mislead us? It just really doesn't take much effort to do a search on Google these days.

[hurka]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Everything can be opened.

and ,
Self-destruction activated

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

The details of the internal design have to remain confidential. This is what I can share that I received from the Japan Telegärtner Ltd.:

 

Our M12 Switch Gold is not bound with those specifications of data transfer and electrical characteristics as a switching hub.  Therefore, it is difficult to evaluate by a simple comparison with those for commercially available ones.

The negativeness in various aspects such as EMI/EMC, electro-static field, induction, noise caused by subtle vibration of the chassis is taken into consideration, and the model design including various mechanical features and its assembly procedure are determined.
To realise these, absorbers and suppression parts are adopted in the model, and torque management takes place in various spots during the assembly.
The round M12 X-coded connctors have added a positive effect.
These are aimed for getting rid of a negative influence from the M12 Switch Gold to other pieces of connected network equipment such as supurious emission and transmission noise generated by the M12 Switch Gold, as well as for protecting the switch itself if an external inductive or electro-static influence comes in.

PCs, various network boards, switching hubs and routers are network equipment that transmits and receives various data, but become a signal source of transmitting and receiving unnecessary radio wave and noise (= subtle current) simultaneously.
A very high level of consideration is required to sweep these negative aspects.  The M12 Switch Gold uses aborbers and suppressors for that reason.

 

-----------------------

 

For those of you who are genuinely interested in the product, there will be several reviews soon, also in the US. I may arrange a demo tour among forum users too. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

 

Does it come standard with MQA?

 

Or is that an extra option?

[mozes]

29 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Would you please kindly stop trying to mislead us? It just really doesn't take much effort to do a search on Google these days.

I don’t think Marcin is trying to mislead anyone. Let’s tone it down a bit and give the guy a break. He already mentioned that there are some reviews in the pipeline and he is open to organizing a demo tour for CA members. I appreciate that even though the price is stratospheric.

[plissken]

1 minute ago, mozes said:

I don’t think Marcin is trying to mislead anyone. Let’s tone it down a bit and give the guy a break. He already mentioned that there are some reviews in the pipeline and he is open to organizing a demo tour for CA members. I appreciate that even though the price is stratospheric.

 

I'd be interested if a blind evaluation by him could be arranged. 

[Marcin_gps]

3 hours ago, plissken said:

 

I'd be interested if a blind evaluation by him could be arranged. 

Blind evaluation is not a bad idea. 

[Marcin_gps]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

As I already wrote in the other topic:

Actually the switch + 2 cables cost 320,000 yen + 25,600 yen (8% tax) = 345,600 yen despite what cables options are chosen. In other words, those cables aren't even optional since they're always sold as a set as shown below

 

http://www.telegaertner.co.jp/product/M12スイッチフライヤ.pdf#page=2

 

Would you please kindly stop trying to mislead us? It just really doesn't take much effort to do a search on Google these days.

 

No, one can purchase the switch body alone.

However, the price difference should not be the focus, but the product alone and what is its purpose in a high-end system. 

[BigAlMc]

5 hours ago, mozes said:

I don’t think Marcin is trying to mislead anyone. Let’s tone it down a bit and give the guy a break. He already mentioned that there are some reviews in the pipeline and he is open to organizing a demo tour for CA members. I appreciate that even though the price is stratospheric.

 

+1 on this. 

 

Yes this product is eyebrow raisingly expensive. Yes people have genuine questions around whether it can justify that price tag. But the purpose of the forum is to gather info and learn. People are then free to make their own opinions and purchasing decisions but there's no need for getting hostile.

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[seeteeyou]

3 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

No, one can purchase the switch body alone.

 

Really? Would you please kindly link to that Japanese online store and show us how much would that cost?

 

http://www.audiounion.jp/ct/detail/new/138728/

http://www.audiounion-tsuhan.com/ct/detail/buy/32055

Quote

専用LANケーブル2本付属します。

 

http://www.oliospec.com/shopdetail/000000005869/

Quote

※専用のLANケーブルが2本付属します。長さは1m、1.5m、2mの中から任意の長さを選択可能です。

 

http://www.yoshidaen.jp/shopdetail/000000003463/

Quote

専用LANケーブル（M12-RJ45コネクタ）/2ｍ　2本付属。

 

IMHO it's kinda easy to claim something without the burden of proof.

[Marcin_gps]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

+1 on this. 

 

Yes this product is eyebrow raisingly expensive. Yes people have genuine questions around whether it can justify that price tag. But the purpose of the forum is to gather info and learn. People are then free to make their own opinions and purchasing decisions but there's no need for getting hostile.

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

Thank you Alan!

 

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Really? Would you please kindly link to that Japanese online store and show us how much would that cost?

 

http://www.audiounion.jp/ct/detail/new/138728/

http://www.audiounion-tsuhan.com/ct/detail/buy/32055

 

http://www.oliospec.com/shopdetail/000000005869/

 

http://www.yoshidaen.jp/shopdetail/000000003463/

 

IMHO it's kinda easy to claim something without the burden of proof.

 

I can purchase the body alone directly from JTL and it is cheaper. I'm not going to look for an online shop just to prove what I already know. Sorry to disappoint you!

 

Now, about the Japan price,  we overseas dealers have a different business condition as that for the Japanese ones.

A currency conversion using the rate as of today does not make sense at all.  In these 15 years, it varied from 80 to 175 (JPY/EUR).
I used the worst case in the recent 5 years 110 JPY/EUR to determine the list price. 

BR, 

Marcin

[Summit]

21 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

The details of the internal design have to remain confidential. This is what I can share that I received from the Japan Telegärtner Ltd.:

 

Our M12 Switch Gold is not bound with those specifications of data transfer and electrical characteristics as a switching hub.  Therefore, it is difficult to evaluate by a simple comparison with those for commercially available ones.

The negativeness in various aspects such as EMI/EMC, electro-static field, induction, noise caused by subtle vibration of the chassis is taken into consideration, and the model design including various mechanical features and its assembly procedure are determined.
To realise these, absorbers and suppression parts are adopted in the model, and torque management takes place in various spots during the assembly.
The round M12 X-coded connctors have added a positive effect.
These are aimed for getting rid of a negative influence from the M12 Switch Gold to other pieces of connected network equipment such as supurious emission and transmission noise generated by the M12 Switch Gold, as well as for protecting the switch itself if an external inductive or electro-static influence comes in.

PCs, various network boards, switching hubs and routers are network equipment that transmits and receives various data, but become a signal source of transmitting and receiving unnecessary radio wave and noise (= subtle current) simultaneously.
A very high level of consideration is required to sweep these negative aspects.  The M12 Switch Gold uses aborbers and suppressors for that reason.

 

-----------------------

 

For those of you who are genuinely interested in the product, there will be several reviews soon, also in the US. I may arrange a demo tour among forum users too. 

 

Best regards,

Marcin

 

I think a demo tour is a good idea. It would give people interested, but a bit skeptical, a good chance to evaluate if your switch is substantially better sounding than a more modest priced switch. I would be interested, under the right conditions.

[Ralf11]

people are skeptical because any noise should not be making it past the transformers, so the question is how can a digital signal be degraded in or by a switch...

[diecaster]

John Swenson has proved that high impedance noise makes it through the transformers. The key is eliminate as much of that noise as possible. With the Netgear GS-105 and GS105, you can greatly reduce that noise by grounding the negative line of the switch power input.

 

You don't need these crazy expensive switches to get the best signal.

[Albrecht]

13 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

+1 on this. 

 

Yes this product is eyebrow raisingly expensive. Yes people have genuine questions around whether it can justify that price tag. But the purpose of the forum is to gather info and learn. People are then free to make their own opinions and purchasing decisions but there's no need for getting hostile.

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Thank you for writing this.  Like many other products that are discussed here, - this switch is not designed for folks with consumer audio systems. It is (likely) not going to make a difference in Onkyo-Denon-land. It is almost crazy to speculate about its efficacy outside direct comparisons with other products in an appropriate context. The most important, (perhaps only),  question for those potential customers,  upon comparison, does it make an improvement or not: when tested? No price, spec-sheet, ad-copy, or measurement can tell anyone how anything is going to affect the OVERALL sound/presentation. It's like saying that someone's macMini will make the system sound the same as an ultra-Rendu, or SMS-200; just because all 3 "do" USB.

[Marcin_gps]

DEMO TOUR IN GERMANY

---------

Anyone from Germany who is interested in the M12 SWITCH GOLD, we will visit your place in Germany for a home demonstration. 

Fee: EUR 80 in advance payment as a part of travel cost, if our staff is picked up from the nearest Deutsche Bahn station.  This offer is valid also for those living in neighboring countries close to the German border if our staff is picked up from a Deutsche Bahn station.

This amount is refunded when you order the product from us. 

 

Please let me know if anyone is interested to find out what this switch is capable of. US tour to be announced later. 

 

Best regards, 

Marcin

[justubes]

What are the audiophile highlights that should give improvements over a normalnswitch.  psu, femto/ocxo clocked?

[mansr]

Just now, justubes said:

What are the audiophile highlights that should give improvements over a normalnswitch.  psu, femto/ocxo clocked?

Waterproof! Round connectors!

[lmitche]

11 hours ago, mansr said:

Waterproof! Round connectors!

Yes, I have an m12 network on my boat. Everything is connected including the engine controls and instrumentation including gps receiver, radar, sonar, AIS and vhf radio.

 

The round connectors are waterproof and lock in place which is important in salt water environments. The cables look like coax, so must have major shielding around the signal conductors. Most things connect via t-connectors as I have no switch or hub. It's not unlike 10 base 2 coax or thin Ethernet, but has more conducts.

[plissken]

On 3/15/2018 at 5:46 PM, Albrecht said:

No price, spec-sheet, ad-copy, or measurement can tell anyone how anything is going to affect the OVERALL sound/presentation. It's like saying that someone's macMini will make the system sound the same as an ultra-Rendu, or SMS-200; just because all 3 "do" USB.

 

Bias controlled testing will go a long way however.