"Roon Ready" Device - Roon + HQPlayer

[DancingSea]

Aloha,

 

I have ordered a PS Audio Direct Stream Junior.  It is a "Roon Ready" device.

 

I assume my question will apply to all "Roon Ready" devices, not just the DSJ.

 

It is easily possible to connect with a "Roon Ready" device over ethernet to my MacBook Pro, and use Roon in conjunction with HQPlayer?

 

Having never tried such a thing, I'm imagining that the DSJ would be selected as a "zone" in Roon.  So if the DSJ (or any Roon Ready device) is selected as Zone, how can HQPlayer also be selected as a Zone?

 

Or is that HQP is selected as the Zone in Roon, and then the DSJ is selected as the output device in HQP?  Can HQP connect to the DirectStream Junior (or any other Roon Ready device) over the network?  Or does it require a USB connection?

 

I'm hoping to avoid USB!

 

Thanks.

[miguelito]

9 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

It is easily possible to connect with a "Roon Ready" device over ethernet to my MacBook Pro, and use Roon in conjunction with HQPlayer?

Nope. If you want to use Roon --> HQPlayer then you will need an NAA-ready device. Both the microRendu and SoTM series of network streamers support this, but I am not aware that other network streaming DACs do. Check whether PS Audio does.

[DancingSea]

3 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Nope. If you want to use Roon --> HQPlayer then you will need an NAA-ready device. Both the microRendu and SoTM series of network streamers support this, but I am not aware that other network streaming DACs do. Check whether PS Audio does.

 

Thanks.  What is a NAA?

 

Also, would I be able to connect via USB and use Roon w/ HQP as I normally have?

 

Is it the ethernet part that requires the NAA?

[miguelito]

11 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

Having never tried such a thing, I'm imagining that the DSJ would be selected as a "zone" in Roon.  So if the DSJ (or any Roon Ready device) is selected as Zone, how can HQPlayer also be selected as a Zone?

The way to configure this would be to add a zone for HQPlayer, and you would select that to play Roon to. Once it reaches HQPlayer, it is outside of Roon and all you can do is either set HQPlayer output to USB or to NAA.

[miguelito]

3 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

What is a NAA?

Network Audio Adapter - see HQPlayer's site (http://signalyst.com). The microRendu has this as one of the possible input mechanisms you can use.

 

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

What is a NAA?

Network Audio Adapter.  See HQPlayer documentation.

[DancingSea]

1 minute ago, miguelito said:

The way to configure this would be to add a zone for HQPlayer, and you would select that to play Roon to. Once it reaches HQPlayer, it is outside of Roon and all you can do is either set HQPlayer output to USB or to NAA.

 

I see.  So the NAA part is required for ethernet?

[miguelito]

Just now, DancingSea said:

So the NAA part is required for ethernet?

The only way (to date, I think) for HQPlayer to play to anything else than the USB output is via NAA over the network to an NAA receiver.

[Miska]

3 minutes ago, miguelito said:

The only way (to date, I think) for HQPlayer to play to anything else than the USB output is via NAA over the network to an NAA receiver.

 

For network, another alternative are the ones with their own drivers. Like Merging devices with RAVENNA with their drivers, or one of the Dante based devices.

 

And of course all the traditional interfaces like SPDIF, AES/EBU, ADAT and MADI.

 

[diecaster]

I just don’t see a compelling need for HQPlayer with the DirectStream stream family of DACs. The max sample rates they support using is 192/24 and DSD128. With the Bridge II card, DSD64 is the max rate. Plus, I know of no way to get HQPlayer to work over the Bridge II connection. 

 

The DirectStream DACs upsample everything to 20x DSD64 internally. Just let the DAC do the upsampling. This means your Roon Core does not need to be anything more than an i5 processor. 

 

I am using Roon with the Bridge II card and love the sound quality I am getting. 

[DancingSea]

8 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

For network, another alternative are the ones with their own drivers. Like Merging devices with RAVENNA with their drivers, or one of the Dante based devices.

 

And of course all the traditional interfaces like SPDIF, AES/EBU, ADAT and MADI.

 

 

Would it be possible to translate that into what works with the DirectStream Junior and a MacBook Pro?

 

The DSJ comes with the Bridge II...

 

https://www.psaudio.com/products/perfectwave-bridge/

 

https://www.psaudio.com/directstream-junior/

[DancingSea]

1 minute ago, diecaster said:

I just don’t see a compelling need for HQPlayer with the DirectStream stream family of DACs. The max sample rates they support using is 192/24 and DSD128. With the Bridge II card, DSD64 is the max rate. Plus, I know of no way to get HQPlayer to work over the Bridge II connection. 

 

The DirectStream DACs upsample everything to 20x DSD64 internally. Just let the DAC do the upsampling. This means your Roon Core does not need to be anything more than an i5 processor. 

 

I am using Roon with the Bridge II card and love the sound quality I am getting. 

 

That's encouraging!!!

 

I only know that I can't stand Roon fed directly into my PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell dac.  Even with Roon doing the DSD upsampling.

 

Hence the trepidation to let go of HQP,  which to date has been a necessity with Roon.  But I've never tried the likes of the DirectStream family...

 

My DSJ is delayed by a parts order, but will hopefully come soon.

[Miska]

34 minutes ago, diecaster said:

I just don’t see a compelling need for HQPlayer with the DirectStream stream family of DACs. The max sample rates they support using is 192/24 and DSD128. With the Bridge II card, DSD64 is the max rate. Plus, I know of no way to get HQPlayer to work over the Bridge II connection.

 

Upsampling even to 192/24 still makes sense because the first step up from 44.1k is most critical. Of course it is not "full solution", but a start anyway.

 

[miguelito]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

I only know that I can't stand Roon fed directly into my PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell dac.  Even with Roon doing the DSD upsampling.

Ok, that's pretty odd.

[tobes]

On 3/4/2018 at 7:43 AM, diecaster said:

I just don’t see a compelling need for HQPlayer with the DirectStream stream family of DACs. The max sample rates they support using is 192/24 and DSD128. With the Bridge II card, DSD64 is the max rate. Plus, I know of no way to get HQPlayer to work over the Bridge II connection. 

 

The DirectStream DACs upsample everything to 20x DSD64 internally. Just let the DAC do the upsampling. This means your Roon Core does not need to be anything more than an i5 processor. 

 

I am using Roon with the Bridge II card and love the sound quality I am getting. 

 

I'm using Roon/HQPlayer with my PS Audio DSJ dac (over USB) and find it to be audibly superior to the Roon>Bridge II connection whether using upsampling options with the latter or not.

I've played with the various upsampling filters on HQP and I keep coming back to poly sinc/DSD5 128.

Of course the DSJ converts all incoming PCM rates up to to 352.8 and DSD 64/128 to 20xDSD. However, IMO, having HQP do the SDM conversion to DSD128 sounds decisively better.

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, tobes said:

 

I'm using Roon/HQPlayer with my PS Audio DSJ dac (over USB) and find it to be audibly superior to the Roon>Bridge II connection whether using upsampling options with the latter or not.

I've played with the various upsampling filters on HQP and I keep coming back to poly sinc/DSD5 128.

Of course the DSJ converts all incoming PCM rates up to to 352.8 and DSD 64/128 to 20xDSD. However, IMO, having HQP do the SDM conversion to DSD128 sounds decisively better.

 

Thanks, that’s very interesting. 

 

I have read so much regarding the superiority of Ethernet over usb. 

 

I guess it can vary. 

[tobes]

Well I guess it all depends on what you are using. I've had setups where the Bridge connection  sounds better. USB has known issues that have to be mitigated.

I dont think you can say one is definitively better - some manufacturers who initially demonized usb now say its equally good in their latest iteration.

I have the Ifi usb3 decrapifier between my mac mini and the DSJ to reduce/isolate noise etc. The DSJ itself is, by design, very resistant to jitter since it does not sync to any incoming clock.

Try it and see which you prefer.

[DancingSea]

13 minutes ago, tobes said:

Well I guess it all depends on what you are using. I've had setups where the Bridge connection  sounds better. USB has known issues that have to be mitigated.

I dont think you can say one is definitively better - some manufacturers who initially demonized usb now say its equally good in their latest iteration.

I have the Ifi usb3 decrapifier between my mac mini and the DSJ to reduce/isolate noise etc. The DSJ itself is, by design, very resistant to jitter since it does not sync to any incoming clock.

Try it and see which you prefer.

 

 

Do you use a microrendu or other such device?

[tobes]

No, I haven't tried the Microrendu - I suppose because I like having the extra utility of the Mac mini.

I have Roon/HQPlayer installed on my late 2012 i7 Mac mini and have the usb output (DSD128 via DoP - the max accepted by the DSJ) going into the iFi USB3 then on to the DSJ.

I also have an Uptone JS2 linear PSU for the Mac, but I don't have that installed in my i7 mini at present - as I currently have the linear PSU adapter card installed in another i5 mini. The Mac is powered from a separate AC power line from my audio equipment (which has a dedicated AC line).

Even without the Uptone JS2 installed, the above setup is the best I've heard from digital in my system.

 

For the Bridge II connection I have a gigabit switch connecting the Mac and DSJ - this is powered from the ultra-regulated 5Vdc usb power from the iFi box. I've also used the JS2 linear power supply to power the network switch.

Still I prefer the sound on the DSJ's usb input - especially with HQPlayer, but also with Audirvana +3.

[DancingSea]

32 minutes ago, tobes said:

No, I haven't tried the Microrendu - I suppose because I like having the extra utility of the Mac mini.

I have Roon/HQPlayer installed on my late 2012 i7 Mac mini and have the usb output (DSD128 via DoP - the max accepted by the DSJ) going into the iFi USB3 then on to the DSJ.

I also have an Uptone JS2 linear PSU for the Mac, but I don't have that installed in my i7 mini at present - as I currently have the linear PSU adapter card installed in another i5 mini. The Mac is powered from a separate AC power line from my audio equipment (which has a dedicated AC line).

Even without the Uptone JS2 installed, the above setup is the best I've heard from digital in my system.

 

For the Bridge II connection I have a gigabit switch connecting the Mac and DSJ - this is powered from the ultra-regulated 5Vdc usb power from the iFi box. I've also used the JS2 linear power supply to power the network switch.

Still I prefer the sound on the DSJ's usb input - especially with HQPlayer, but also with Audirvana +3.

 

To my understanding, the mR would not hinder your Mac mini.  It would just allow HQP to connect with the Bridge over Ethernet instead of usb. 

[diecaster]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

Do you use a microrendu or other such device?

 

I tried the ultraRendu using a quality LPS with my PS Audio DirectStream DAC and compared it to the Bridge II card. They did sound slightly different but I wouldn't say one was "better" than the other. I swapped back and forth one week at a time for a month. I ended up selling the ultraRendu.

[diecaster]

24 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

To my understanding, the mR would not hinder your Mac mini.  It would just allow HQP to connect with the Bridge over Ethernet instead of usb. 

 

There is no way I know of for you to use HQPlayer over the Bridge II Ethernet connection as it does not support NAA output. If I am wrong about this, I would sure like to know. Either way, the Bridge II card only supports DSD64.

[DancingSea]

15 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

I tried the ultraRendu using a quality LPS with my PS Audio DirectStream DAC and compared it to the Bridge II card. They did sound slightly different but I wouldn't say one was "better" than the other. I swapped back and forth one week at a time for a month. I ended up selling the ultraRendu.

 

Did HQP with the ultra figure into the trial?

[tobes]

52 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

To my understanding, the mR would not hinder your Mac mini.  It would just allow HQP to connect with the Bridge over Ethernet instead of usb. 

 

To be honest I don't know much about the Rendu products.

They appear to have rj45 inputs and usb output - to be controlled via a phone/tablet/pc etc.

So they wouldn't connect to the Bridge II, but to usb - an alternative to the Bridge II.

I realise they've supposedly been optimised for audio, but whether it would be lower noise than a Mac mini/Uptone JS2/iFi usb3 setup is not clear (to me). Adding another device and complicating the setup is not always a good thing.

Of course I could eliminate the Mac and use my phone or whatever with a Rendu - but like I said, I want the extra utility the Mac allows.

[diecaster]

26 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Did HQP with the ultra figure into the trial?

 

No.